The Judging Controversy Thread | Page 69 | Golden Skate

The Judging Controversy Thread

i'm not saying if a judge doesn't agree with me - I'm saying if they don't agree with millions watching, professionals, long time people in the industry, etc., who are all shocked with the result, then I'm saying yes - there was at the very least a lean. Further evidence hints at more than just a lean.

If you don't agree that there was at least a lean in the numbers, it seems to me you're either taking the stance that the numbers are correct, or the judges have made errors in judgment. Which is it?

Where are you from? I watched the programs on NBC in the US and not one member of the broadcast team raised an issue with the outcome or the scoring. I agree a lot of people are shocked, but a lot of people agree with the outcome as well. Yuna has earned hundreds of millions of fans with her great skating and it is understandable that most would not like the outcome here. It is perfectly acceptable for us to disagree with the results. However, at least 6 judges placed Adelina over Yuna, which is an unpopular decision when one has hundred of millions of fans more than the other, but not necessarily wrong. We see people complaining about a lot of things but unless there is evidence of bad behavior with the 6 or 7 judges who preferred Adelina all of this is moot.
 
and to your (daisy's) point, i do think the idea of not being able to score a high pcs when the stakes are up etc., is a fallacy. just because adelina wasn't able to do it before doesn't mean she wouldn't be able to step it up at a big event. the point that's being made is that, while she did step it up, it wasn't to the extent the judges felt it was.

with that in mind, perhaps it was the improvement of adelina, which many of the judges seem familiar with, that "caused" the increase in points? regardless, the point values for PCS and GOE are still too high, according to the experts who were not judging the event
 
regardless, the point values for PCS and GOE are still too high, according to the experts who were not judging the event

It is "according to the experts" you want to listen to. Perhaps it's more than half but there are a lot of skaters who agree with the outcome, if not the margin of victory. Again, Scott, Sandra, Tara, and Johnny are experts whom you are overlooking when you make a blanket statement like the experts say Adelina's score was too high.
 
just because adelina wasn't able to do it before doesn't mean she wouldn't be able to step it up at a big event.

Yes, it does. The PCS is largely based on skating skills. This is why Kurt Browning said you don't become that good of a skater overnight. This would be like saying that Max Aaron all of a sudden got Patrick Chan-level PCS because Max landed all his quads.
 
what if it is not a conspiracy setup by 1-2 judges and whomever, but just a general lean towards sotnikova (which is not illegal by any means). though, as we've found, it's not just the judging but the tech calling that is also suspect

That's why Alla Shekhovtsova shouldn't be there. There's only one way how to tackle corruption: to prevent interest conflicts and the very situations when corruption is possible. The attitude of skating officials is simply not serious.

Don't tell me "maybe she's honest". Do you know what she should say if she was? She'd say: "Sorry, I can't take this job. I've been related to the boss of our skating federation. People will find this out and, if our skaters win, which is very likely, they will think these are home-cooked results because I'm involved and I've been given plenty of time to influence other judges. There will be no way to prove that it was an honest victory. It will stay dubious till the end of our lives. I don't want it for me and the sport of my country so I resign."
She didn't say that. Neither she did resign.

I'd say it's not a conspiracy. It's corruption as a norm of everyday life.
 
The judges and Russian Federation underestimated the power of Korean maths. lol. Watch how this go down in history. Adelina will be remembered as a symbol of figure skating corruption.
 
Where are you from? I watched the programs on NBC in the US and not one member of the broadcast team raised an issue with the outcome or the scoring. I agree a lot of people are shocked, but a lot of people agree with the outcome as well. Yuna has earned hundreds of millions of fans with her great skating and it is understandable that most would not like the outcome here. It is perfectly acceptable for us to disagree with the results. However, at least 6 judges placed Adelina over Yuna, which is an unpopular decision when one has hundred of millions of fans more than the other, but not necessarily wrong. We see people complaining about a lot of things but unless there is evidence of bad behavior with the 6 or 7 judges who preferred Adelina all of this is moot.

I'm in the USA, and watched it live and rewatched it during NBC's prime time broadcast. While there were some implications, there was not, and of course would not be, direct outcry of judging and scores. NBC has whatever deal they have to be the exclusive broadcasters of the Olympics in the USA, so I highly doubt they would even say anything implying anything at all. You're right that it is an unpopular decision, and unfortunate that most who are against it are just blindly supporting Yuna and not doing more research. For me, I'm not an avid figure skating fan or anything of the sort. I joined the forum after I saw the results, which seemed outrageous to me at first, especially now considering Yuna's OGM 150, and her World Les Mis performance. I'm learning as I go along, so I can be wrong much of the time.

I'm just looking at the data, the rules, and the circumstances. If I didn't know better, as most don't, I'd hear that people say figure skating, with the current rule structure, leans more toward technical skill and racking up points, and be done with it. But digging deeper, as the tech difference is minimal including SP* and FS, not only did the points work in her favor for tech, but also for SP and GOE - which, to all other experts aside from the judges, and broadcasters, etc. seems incorrect. I'm not listening to the ones who just say, Yuna should have won, she looked better out there. I'm looking at what data is available, which is also slightly limited thanks to anonymity of judging.
 
It is "according to the experts" you want to listen to. Perhaps it's more than half but there are a lot of skaters who agree with the outcome, if not the margin of victory. Again, Scott, Sandra, Tara, and Johnny are experts whom you are overlooking when you make a blanket statement like the experts say Adelina's score was too high.

again, like I address in the above post, yes, I'm not listening to what the NBC broadcasters are saying, as they have other interests to protect.

Also, as I understand it, while they may not have directly said anything (and I'm sure they are contracted NOT to say anything about judging), other broadcasting in different nations were quick to point out an astoundingly high, basically world record minus a stumble, free skating score
 
The judges and Russian Federation underestimated the power of Korean maths. lol. Watch how this go down in history. Adelina will be remembered as a symbol of figure skating corruption.

They clearly never heard of the Asian stereotype. :laugh:

1+1 = 3 :popcorn:
 
The judges and Russian Federation underestimated the power of Korean maths. lol. Watch how this go down in history. Adelina will be remembered as a symbol of figure skating corruption.

Kim is basically held in higher regard for being robbed of her 2nd OGM than if she won it, while Sotnikova has become a symbol of shame in the sport, probably forever.
 
Yes, it does. The PCS is largely based on skating skills. This is why Kurt Browning said you don't become that good of a skater overnight. This would be like saying that Max Aaron all of a sudden got Patrick Chan-level PCS because Max landed all his quads.

Adelina has been getting, on average, the 4th or 5th best PCS in the world for 2 years now. It isn't like Zijun came out here and got higher PCS than Yuna.
 
IDK What NBC broadcast you guys are listening to....

The NBC shown on my TV didn't have Tara and Johnny as commentators..........
 
Kim is basically held in higher regard for being robbed of her 2nd OGM than if she won it, while Sotnikova has become a symbol of shame in the sport, probably forever.

Eh, give it a week and no one will care either way. No one's talking about Mirai anymore and people acted like that was going to be a black cloud over the games.
 
Adelina has been getting, on average, the 4th or 5th best PCS in the world for 2 years now. It isn't like Zijun came out here and got higher PCS than Yuna.

Lol, Adelina got like 9.50 and 9.75...

That's pretty much 10.0 because the judges didn't want to make it seem like she's lock for Gold because Yuna hasn't skate.

You really agree with the fact that Adelina has the best component scores in the world? :o:
 
Where are you from? I watched the programs on NBC in the US and not one member of the broadcast team raised an issue with the outcome or the scoring

I agree. Quite the coincidence that the CBC broadcasters expressed their shock and disgust. So did the Brits, Italians, Germans, all of them. Curious that the U.S. commentators seemed to be bias in favor of the Russians, especially after the reports from Le'Equipe earlier in the games. Also interesting to note that one other skater besides the two Russians had suspect scores in the ladies individual event -- Gracie Gold.

1. Every judge. Every. Single. Judge. Scored Adelina > 70 on PCS. If you think she deserves 60's for PCS you are in disagreement with every judge on the panel.

First, the judges meet beforehand and discuss judging. If there was a "bloc" of judges trying to influence the results, their persuasion could have factored in, and other judges may have been timid to score very far outside of what most of the other judges would be likely to score. It's interesting that most independent experts viewed Yuna as the clearly more artistic and refined, polish skater (even if they were loathe to protest the placement) ... but the PCS scores were essentially the same. How can you not find that egregious and suspect?

Second, from a more statistic point of view ... let's look at deviations from the mean and mode scores for each skater. Where is Mathman? I haven't taken statistics classes in years. I'd have to really put in some effort to give a good mathematical breakdown, whereas he and some other posters could probably type something credible on a whim.

2. Like you, I haven't seen a clear video or image to indicate whether the edge was wrong on the take-off. However, it's wrong to assume it was, particularly when she was clearly on an outside edge before the take-off (her skate is leaning outward) but may or may not have rolled over. The < was close, like Yuna's SP 3-3 or her LP 2nd 3Lz.

I didn't assume anything, I clearly said most people seem to think the casual internet evidence is inconclusive on the edge call. Everyone seems convinced the 3T should have been downgraded, including me.

You conveniently did not address the issue with the Russian tech callers and Adelina's 16 of 19 statistic.

3. Only 4 of Julia's +3 were for jumps. She always gets a ton of those for her spins. +3 is common for great spins.

1. No traveling spin should ever receive a +3. I haven't gone back and looked at Julia's skate, because it was awful and she didn't place, but at Euros and Team competition I saw her travel many times and receive +3s

2. Her jumps should NEVER receive higher than +1. Never under any circumstances. +2 is egregious ... to be getting +3 on her jumps is outright criminal.

4. I cannot speak to the step sequences, but I haven't heard of any of the athletes disagreeing with their levels.

Me either, I don't know enough about steps, but from what I've heard Adelina's footwork is not on par with Yuna's. I can only go off the deviation from their mode scores, and in particular how Adelina is not known as a footwork artist but was the only one to score level 4 in both programs. At the very least it draws further scrutiny, and the people who know more than me think the levels are wrong.

-----

You also ignored the short program, where the two should not have been tied.
 
I'm in the USA, and watched it live and rewatched it during NBC's prime time broadcast. While there were some implications, there was not, and of course would not be, direct outcry of judging and scores. NBC has whatever deal they have to be the exclusive broadcasters of the Olympics in the USA, so I highly doubt they would even say anything implying anything at all.

How can you use this as a reason to dismiss the opinions of the NBC analysts when broadcasters all over the world have exclusive deals to broadcast the Games in their country?
 
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