The Judging Controversy Thread

[drivingmissdaisy]

that assumes the SP was scored correctly.

Well sure, if you think the judges cheated in the SP, cheated in the LP, and Elvis, Johnny, Scott, and Tara are all somehow part of the plot as well then there is little that is going to convince you otherwise.

 

[whatif]

that assumes the SP was scored correctly.

With NO one single Russian or EE judge on that panel, I wonder what argument Yuna fans have to question those scores.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

do you even have a logical response to the post made by a skater earlier in this thread watching the program?

Why would I read all that? Once I saw the poster suggest facial expressions should factor into footwork levels I gave up.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

With NO one single Russian or EE judge on that panel, I wonder what argument Yuna fans have to question those scores.

There were KOR, USA, and CAN judges, however. Conveniently ignored.

 

[leafygreens]

Just looking at jumps, here is the number of 3+ each skater received:

SP
Yuna 4
Adelina 4

LP
Yuna 7
Adelina 17

 

[kslr0816]

Well sure, if you think the judges cheated in the SP, cheated in the LP, and Elvis, Johnny, Scott, and Tara are all somehow part of the plot as well then there is little that is going to convince you otherwise.

i never said they cheated. we BOTH agreed there was a lean in judging. you seem to forget that.

With NO one single Russian or EE judge on that panel, I wonder what argument Yuna fans have to question those scores.

i wonder how anyone actually interested in skating could NOT question those scores. I don't care about the conspiracy theory or who's on the panel. This is a pure question of whether the scores were deserved or not. Period.

 

[evangeline]

True, but no one has addressed the issue of under-rotation of the 3T in her opening combo. It's quite surprising to see scores from both the negative and positive sides of the spectrum. One judge gave a -1 while another gave +3. I don't know about Yuna's combo but as far as the case for Adelina, it was kind of obvious she dragged her foot from a under-rotated position - even by looking at the slow-mo on TV.

I'm still finding it hard to swallow that they allow benefit of the doubt for wrong edge calls. It's like ISU is discouraging the correct use of edges, which makes a lutz jump differentiated from a flip.

Also, I'm all in for the justifications evangeline has mentioned. Even rugby, considered as one of the most roughest sports, has TMOs before awarding a try. During this session, 4 or 5 technical analysts are in a separate room away from the field. They communicate with the referees on field and actually discuss whether the try was legitimate or not, using at least 5 different camera angles. And all of this is broadcasted on air, for the audience to see - with the referees names and faces as well.

The benefit of the doubt standard is also used for UR calls as well--according to the official rulebook, if the tech panel is doubtful about a jump's rotation, they should construe it in favor of the skater.

I don't think the ISU is discouraging the correct use of edges at all. Wrong edges are penalized with the e call--it is only the ambiguous edges which often depend on camera angle and a good dose of human judgment that are given the benefit of the doubt. If the tech panel is too strict and slaps an e call on every single edge that may or may not be correct, that would disincentivize skaters from actually attempting the lutz jump and/or skaters who are working hard on turning their flutzes into lutzes.

Also, it is not just the correct use of edges that differentiates the lutz from the flip, the counter-rotation of the lutz is also a major feature of the jump that the flip lacks.

 

[gkelly]

And what would be acceptable proof that it was "benefit of the doubt" that would be satisfactory for you? The answer is nothing, because you don't care about the truth. You just want to continue pouting about Yuna getting outjumped.

I can't speak for anyone else, but to me if I saw the video that the tech panel used for review, and heard audio recording of the review saying things like "Is it more than 90 degrees? Looks like it's right on the quarter to me," etc., I would be confident that the panel did exactly that -- review the element and give benefit of doubt in a borderline case.

Yeah, not sure the Economist is a credible publication for figure skating. We don't even know what kind of experience Ms. Chloe Katz has.

I didn't even notice the byline.

I assume it is this Chloe Katz? http://figureskatersonline.com/news/staff/chloe-katz/

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Just looking at jumps, here is the number of 3+ each skater received:

SP
Yuna 4
Adelina 4

LP
Yuna 7
Adelina 17

I agree it's wrong. Yuna should be 6 because in no universe should that second 3Lz get +3.

 

[kslr0816]

There were KOR, USA, and CAN judges, however. Conveniently ignored.

not ignored. as i've repeated, it doesn't matter - i'll even go as far as to say there's no conspiracy. doesn't change the fact that there was bias and lean in the scores.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I assume it is this Chloe Katz? http://figureskatersonline.com/news/staff/chloe-katz/

:agree:

Amazing find! Ubers attacked the credibility of the wrong person.

 

[kslr0816]

I agree it's wrong. Yuna should be 6 because in no universe should that second 3Lz get +3.

in no universe should adelina have received a 149.95 for her LP

 

[kslr0816]

:agree:

Amazing find! Ubers attacked the credibility of the wrong person.

and if Katz said Yuna should have won, she'd have no credibility in your eyes.

lol.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

in no universe should adelina have received a 149.95 for her LP

Most of the judging panel disagrees, and that's all that matters.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I have not attacked the credibility of any pro-Yuna professional commentators, because I can see how someone could be surprised by the result. I acknowledge the experts know more than I do.

 

[evangeline]

I find it strange that people would complain about the Economist and Chloe Katz lacking credibility, yet keep silent when other posters post articles from The Wire.com and Yu-Na fansites as unvarnished truth.

 

[jehan215]

The benefit of the doubt standard is also used for UR calls as well--according to the official rulebook, if the tech panel is doubtful about a jump's rotation, they should construe it in favor of the skater.

I don't think the ISU is discouraging the correct use of edges at all. Wrong edges are penalized with the e call--it is only the ambiguous edges which often depend on camera angle and a good dose of human judgment that are given the benefit of the doubt. If the tech panel is too strict and slaps an e call on every single edge that may or may not be correct, that would disincentivize skaters from actually attempting the lutz jump and/or skaters who are working hard on turning their flutzes into lutzes.

Also, it is not just the correct use of edges that differentiates the lutz from the flip, the counter-rotation of the lutz is also a major feature of the jump that the flip lacks.

Yes, but wouldn't that be unfair for those who actually jump the lutz correctly from an outside edge? As opposed to one that is ambiguous? I'm just saying it would be unfortunate for those who execute the lutz without any ambiguity. Use of wrong edges are habits that I think a competitive figure skater should definitely overcome.

 

[kslr0816]

Most of the judging panel disagrees, and that's all that matters.

good. your job here is done.

 

[kslr0816]

I find it strange that people would complain about the Economist and Chloe Katz lacking credibility, yet keep silent when other posters post articles from The Wire.com and Yu-Na fansites as unvarnished truth.

i never said it lacked credibility. what i implied was that it lacked a more detailed analysis, similar to all of those who just want to write this off as "tech won the night..." hmm wonder why that is the only real argument they fall back on instead of a close analysis of breakdown of scores, for both SP and FS

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

good. your job here is done.

And what is your job here? You should be on GS more than a month before you start dismissing people.