Looking back on the careers of Yu Na Kim and Michelle Kwan

[ahy]

Can't we just enjoy the fabulous performances of both of them...

 

[Michelle's Spiral]

That is an interesting question. I think as time passes people become more and more satisfied to take ownership of their accomplishments and feel less and less envy of what others have achieved. Michelle's five world championships puts her in an exclusive club of four, joining Herma Szabo, Sonja Henie (10), and Carol Heiss. This feat was last accomplished in 1960. Meanwhile, there is automatically an Olympic gold medalist every four years no matter what, 21 in all so far.

Nor would Yuna Kim trade her career for anybody's. If you like statistics (who doesn't? ), only Tenley Albright, Carol Heiss, and Sjoukje Dijkstra have an Olympic gold and an Olympic silver medal, along with Witt's two golds and Henie's three.

As for Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes, they skated their best when the stakes were highest. I don't think they would trade places with anyone either.

Great comment. And even though Michelle was touted as the OGM favorite in 98 and 02, winning silver and bronze isn't shabby in the grand scheme of things (especially considering that skaters like Kurt Browning and Todd Eldredge never won an Olympic medal in multiple appearances).

I think that the OGM is definitely very meaningful, and will always be the highest achievement in figure skating, but I also feel as though MK's longevity and body of work transcend it.

 

[anyanka]

I saw the original title of this thread and thought "nooooooo don't make me choose!!! I love them BOTH!!!"

Is this a sort of Rolling Stones vs. Beatles type of debate? "You can only pick ONE."

 

[Tompson]

Hell yea in your thought, All the Plush achieve is just 1OGM, 3World. right? :think:

 

[Ladskater]

Yuna Kim is a legend in her own right. There really is no comparison between Yuna Kim and Michelle Kwan. Yuna's Gold medal skate at the Vancouver 2010 Olympics was text book perfect and should be shown to every little girl who wants to learn to figure skate.

 

[Tompson]

If you really like Kwan, delete it.

 

[Components]

I don't think Kwan (or any other female skater) could've taken off entire seasons and still medalled.

If you consider 2010 and 2011 weak, then what about WC 2013?

WC2013 was a splatfest.

 

[Components]

Kim showed up at WC 2010 with a I-don't-care attitude, bombed the SP, and still managed to win silver.

She showed up at WC 2011 having not competed in ANY events prior, gave a lackluster performance, and still managed to win silver (some ppl think she still deserved gold). So I do think that Kim out of all skaters is able to maintain peak level for a long time.

Skating isn't about maintaining peak level at all times. It's about peaking at the right time.

This is how Kwan beat Slutskaya at the 2001 World Championships. She peaked, at the right time, while Irina was on a roll during the Grand Prix and always had trouble peaking for the "big prize" events (Worlds and Olympics).

Part of what allowed Kim to place so highly is reputation scoring as well, which all reputable skaters benefit from so that's not *her fault.* This is no different than what happened with Kostner at the most recent WC. The Margin for era is always larger for skaters like Kwan, Kim, Kostner, Asada, etc. than it is for upstarts. "Paying your dues" still seems to be a tradition the skating community does not want to let go of (and is the source of confusion for many casual fans, cause it makes the scoring even less comprehensible than it already is).

 

[Krislite]

Kwan is the type of skater who transcends medals. Whether Yuna measures up to her, I doubt Yuna herself is living with any tinge of regret about her skating career, which is more than can be said of Kwan. They were both beaten by mediocre, lesser skaters at one point or another. As great as Kwan was even she was undone by lesser skaters like Hughes. But it's not about how you lose or whom you lose to. It's how consistently you can rise to the occasion. Here they are both legendary, and will be long remembered for their accomplishments, not their failures. At the level they are both in, I think it's a rather petty distinction to rank one over the other based on this or that medal alone. You also do other great skaters a major disservice by calling Kim's competition "weak". Kostner, Asada, Ando et al were not "weak" competition by any means, even compared to what Kwan was up against in her heyday. They are great skaters in their own right.

 

[Components]

Kwan is the type of skater who transcends medals. Whether Yuna measures up to her, I doubt Yuna herself is living with any tinge of regret about her skating career, which is more than can be said of Kwan. They were both beaten by mediocre, lesser skaters at one point or another. As great as Kwan was even she was undone by lesser skaters like Hughes. But it's not about how you lose or whom you lose to. It's how consistently you can rise to the occasion. Here they are both legendary, and will be long remembered for their accomplishments, not their failures. At the level they are both in, I think it's a rather petty distinction to rank one over the other based on this or that medal alone. You also do other great skaters a major disservice by calling Kim's competition "weak". Kostner, Asada, Ando et al were not "weak" competition by any means, even compared to what Kwan was up against in her heyday. They are great skaters in their own right.

Ando was not weak, but Sotnikova was mediocre.

Don't make me laugh.

 

[cooper]

Ando was not weak, but Sotnikova was mediocre.

Don't make me laugh.

ando = 2 time world champion in mao-yuna era.. so she's not weak if that's you're implying.. and not to mention miki ando during her prime was very consistent..

 

[Meoima]

ando = 2 time world champion in mao-yuna era.. so she's not weak if that's you're implying.. and not to mention miki ando during her prime was very consistent..

Not to mention she is the only lady who has ever attempted a quad in competition.

 

[CarneAsada]

Not to mention she is the only lady who has ever attempted a quad in competition.

Surya Bonaly?

 

[YesWay]

Not to mention she is the only lady who has ever attempted a quad in competition.

She's the first and only lady, who has successfully landed a quad in competition

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

She's the first and only lady, who has successfully landed a quad in competition

No, her quad was ratified, however if you look at the replays, she was under-rotated, almost by half a rotation and certainly by over a 1/4 rotation. I guess the tech panel ratified it so it stands but I'm still a staunch believer that a woman has yet to land a clean, sufficiently-rotated quad in international competition.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Ando was not weak, but Sotnikova was mediocre.

Don't make me laugh.

Sotnikova was not mediocre. She landed 7 triples (6 if her 3T was deemed UR), which is more than the 5 Ando did to win her World title in 2011. Sotnikova also attempted all 5 triples in Sochi, and went for a 3-3, whereas Ando avoided the flip. Ando's 2007 World title skates though were superbly jumped though and better than Sotnikova's Sochi skates.

As actual skaters, I personally think Adelina's skating is currently still average and I've always thought the same about Ando (although at her best, she's somewhat better than Sotnikova is right now).

Calling Sotnikova mediocre when she railed off all that technical content in Sochi is what's laughable. I know she was gifted the win over Kim and Kostner, but her skates were still great, and she deserves more than just "mediocre". If anything, Hanyu was "mediocre" in his win, along with Chan's silver and Ten's bronze, compared to Sotnikova/Kim/Kostner.

 

[MiRé]

I would have to disagree with drivingmissdaisy that Yu Na would rather her own career than Michelle`s and Michelle`s rather Yu Na`s than hers. The reason is quite simple. There are only 4 women in skating history with 5 world titles or more. There are approximately 20 women in history (I havent counted but probably something like that) with an Olympic gold medal. You figure out which is more prestigious.

To put it even more into perspective, had Irina Slutskaya won the Olympic gold in Turin or Salt Lake City would Kwan have traded her career for Irina`s also.

There is only one woman who has never been off the podium in every national and international competitions.
I think that's harder than earning 5 Gold WC medals. (Not saying WC medals are easy to get or anything)

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

There is only one woman who has never been off the podium in every national and international competitions.
I think that's harder than earning 5 Gold WC medals. (Not saying WC medals are easy to get or anything)

Agreed, especially under CoP, where the technical demands are much greater. Not to mention, Kim isn't from a popular skating country either, so to never be off the podium would be as remarkable as if Denis Ten or Javier Fernandez never placed off the podium.

Kwan kinda bored me technically, even though she was sound/consistent, but artistically she always impressed. Kim was astounding with her 3-3 combos, and ease of jumping, and her jumping ability and quality is something Kwan does not measure up to.

I do agree that Kwan transcends medals and I couldn't care less if she didn't jump at all, because her skating is so enjoyable to watch. However, I would also say the same about Kim (to a lesser extent).

 

[Meoima]

Come to think of it, if Tara Lipinski had competed in Sochi, her performance (which was placed above Kwan) would be considered too junior-ish. I wonder how much she would score under CoP.

 

[YesWay]

Agreed, especially under CoP, where the technical demands are much greater. Not to mention, Kim isn't from a popular skating country either, so to never be off the podium would be as remarkable as if Denis Ten or Javier Fernandez never placed off the podium.

It is quite an achievement... although I do wonder if she would have held on to it, if she hadn't largely stayed away from competition for the last quad.

Actually, technically, it could be quite an easy achievement... if a skater quits immediately after landing on the podium in their first competition ;-D Somehow I don't think they would be regarded with quite as much respect though haha :-D