Looking back on the careers of Yu Na Kim and Michelle Kwan

[pangtongfan]

Clean was big under 6.0 so I disagree Mao would have won Vancouver under 6.0. The judges would not have had her winning even with the 3axels with such a glaring error as the singled toe, plus the way her triple flip-triple loop was attempted was obviously an error too.

 

[sk8in]

But clean under 6.0 meant not falling on your butt---ie Ashley Wagner skating "lights out"

 

[jenaj]

Well I think is Mao's Vancouver performance was judged under the 6.0 system it is likely that she would have an OGM. The historic nature of two triple axels would have weighed a lot more heavily in the final scores, and Yuna's overall speed/power wouldn't have been as valued.

I'm not so sure, because Mao had a stumble in her long program--I think it was because there was a rut in the ice where she picked in for her jump. Not her fault, but it interrupted the flow. It would have been close but I think the quality of Yu Na's 3-3 combined with her totally clean performance would have put her on top.

ETA: But for Yu Na to really clinch it under 6.0, she would have had to add the loop, for 7 triples.

 

[usethis2]

I said this in a similar thread at FSU, but if I were to take their careers:

Afterlife - Michelle Kwan
Alive - Yuna Kim

Seems about the best life a skater can have.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

This whole thread is hysterical... Not always, and not for all topics, but sometimes there is nothing quite like pangtongfan thread... y'all have fun

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

But clean under 6.0 meant not falling on your butt---ie Ashley Wagner skating "lights out"

The judges were ready to give Slutskaya gold at the 2001 Worlds but a step-out on the 3Lz-3T cost her. Maybe a few hard-to-spot errors like Baiul vs Nancy would be acceptable to give a skater a win, but a step-out was costly under 6.0, not only falls.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

a step-out was costly under 6.0, not only falls.

Not if you're counting Salt Lake City pairs.

 

[Olympia]

This whole thread is hysterical... Not always, and not for all topics, but sometimes there is nothing quite like pangtongfan thread... y'all have fun

For myself, when I think of Michelle, YuNa, Mao, and other great skaters, the last thing that comes into my mind is numbers. Music, yes; facial expression, glide, lift, flight, posture, also yes. Gooseflesh also (mine, I mean). Trying to figure out which one is quantitatively superior? Not possible for me. I'm greedy and treasure all three.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

For myself, when I think of Michelle, YuNa, Mao, and other great skaters, the last thing that comes into my mind is numbers. Music, yes; facial expression, glide, lift, flight, posture, also yes. Gooseflesh also (mine, I mean). Trying to figure out which one is quantitatively superior? Not possible for me. I'm greedy and treasure all three.

That's not greedy. That's being sensible. People are allowed to like multiple skaters without "taking sides". It certainly beats those who willfully hate certain skaters because they threaten their favourite skaters, instead of appreciating what those skaters have to offer.

 

[gettinglow]

This whole thread is hysterical... Not always, and not for all topics, but sometimes there is nothing quite like pangtongfan thread... y'all have fun

Agreed. I think, though, we can all agree that Kwan and Kim were better than Slutskaya and Sotnikova.

 

[Mathman]

Slutskaya was underappreciated in the U.S., though. (And I say this as a Michelle Kwan enthusiast. )

 

[Meoima]

Slutskaya was underappreciated in the U.S., though. (And I say this as a Michelle Kwan enthusiast. )

I am not Irina's fan but somehow I don't get it why people under-appreciate her so much. She was a good jumper and very athletic.

 

[Sandpiper]

I'm sure Slutskaya has loads of fans in Europe, ect. She is Russia's most successful female singles skater. She's a bit like Michelle if we look past the artistic styles: with her longevity, ability to stay constantly at the top, but ultimately no OGM. I'm surprised by some of the comments about her, but I guess a US-dominated forum is bound to under-appreciate her; she's Russian and the rival of a US skater.

I say this as someone who thinks Michelle is the greatest female skater of all time.

 

[Michelle's Spiral]

I'm sure Slutskaya has loads of fans in Europe, ect. She is Russia's most successful female singles skater. She's a bit like Michelle if we look past the artistic styles: with her longevity, ability to stay constantly at the top, but ultimately no OGM. I'm surprised by some of the comments about her, but I guess a US-dominated forum is bound to under-appreciate her; she's Russian and the rival of a US skater.

I say this as someone who thinks Michelle is the greatest female skater of all time.

I don't think it's anti-Russian bias. MK and Irina were like fire and ice - one was known as an artist, and the other was known as an athlete. I've found that people who like the "artistic" skaters tend to not like the "athletes." That being said, I still think that Slutskaya is the greatest ladies skater that Russia has ever produced (we will see what the young Russian ladies do over the next quad). Even Michelle said that Irina was her greatest rival.

 

[Olympia]

I am not Irina's fan but somehow I don't get it why people under-appreciate her so much. She was a good jumper and very athletic.

I always liked Irina and enjoyed her skating, though I rooted for Michelle. Irina had all the qualities you all have enumerated, including staying power and those lovely, springy jumps. I also enjoyed her upbeat personality. I agree that she was underappreciated in the U.S.

 

[pangtongfan]

Compared to Michelle's U.S rivals- Lipinski and Cohen, Slutskaya actually gets quite a bit of warmth and appreciation, even from Kwan fans. Americans in general were absolutely brutal to Lipinski when she was beating Kwan, and Cohen seemed to irritate them too, but probably not as much as she would have if she skated cleanly more often and beaten Kwan.

 

[Sandpiper]

I see some of the opposite too though--people who rooted for Cohen or even Lipinski against Kwan. Don't think I've seen a lot of people rooting for Slutskaya even if they didn't hate her.

 

[pangtongfan]

Well it is natural an American probably wont root for a non American over an American, and skating forums like this are predominantly American. Cohen had a feisty little fan base which could be vocal at times, but Kwan had a much larger one, many of who seemed to resent anyone who dared challenge her, but especialy if it were another American. Slutskaya seemed to get more appreciation and respect (even if gruding at times) from the very large Kwan fan base than Sasha or especialy Tara did.

 

[Mathman]

OT -- Don't miss Tara on Hollywood Game night tonight.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Compared to Michelle's U.S rivals- Lipinski and Cohen, Slutskaya actually gets quite a bit of warmth and appreciation, even from Kwan fans. Americans in general were absolutely brutal to Lipinski when she was beating Kwan, and Cohen seemed to irritate them too, but probably not as much as she would have if she skated cleanly more often and beaten Kwan.

I totally agree... Irina routinely brought the house down during competitions & champions on ice so while she might not have been worshiped & adored, she was beloved by the American fans that I knew...

Tara & Sasha were never the problem... their fans, on the other hand...smh