Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov Split

[Alba]

Which means that even having ballroom on the table Morozov is not able to creat a dance with dance closed holds. That’s a problem.

I'm not sure about that. I mean V&T SP had a lot more dance closed holds that many Ice Dance couples.
Certainly more than I'K, and it was Morozov's choreo.

 

[sisinka]

I'm willing to give Victoria a little slack, especially if the rumors about the formation of S/K having been planned since the summer are true. She would not be the first person who was "encouraged" by the federation to leave her current partnership and I am willing to suspect that the supposed blackballing of S/Z up until Nationals and then their sudden rise was part of the encouragement.

Personally I would imagine this picture...that Nikita started to plan this for real and asked Viki after Olympics. It would have no sense to think about a split before the Olympics when Morozov never mentioned that I&K should be a part of Olympic Team competition (so no medal guaranteed) and during whole season it even didn't look like I&K would be a medal contenders thanks to a fact that they didn't even qualify for Grand Prix Final. Then Russian Nationals comes - Nikita made mistakes in short dance and in free dance Lena fell in entry of the lift thanks to bad position of her legs plus other mistakes. Then I&K had a free way to Gold at European Champs with biggest rivals out, but Lena fell in twizzles and they lost Gold Medal. Then Olympic - suddenly Morozov changes mind and persuades Russian Federation and a couple becomes a part of Gold Olympic Team. Then another dream situation - clean skating plus all levels (only one stumble by Lena in non element in short dance) and they win Bronze Medal with such extremely high points, even +3 for lifts where a couple is weak in. I think that this was a key point - Nikita is in seventh heaven and thinks that now he is in a position when he can allow himself to change partner without losing anything (because top two couple will probably finish career). In the same moment at the Olympics Viki & Ruslan are skating and judges are giving them terribly low score, they finish at 16th place, even lower than Carron & Jones who made many mistakes in their programs (and we all know how their skating skills look like), S&Z finished behind many couples who they easily beat at European Champs. And Tarasova who doesn't like S&Z is critical to them again, while the same Tarasova loves Nikita. In this moment Nikita comes with his idea of creating new couple and Victoria agrees - she will have new partner who already has Olympic Medals, Tarasova loves him, judges loves him, fans loves him, they even regrets mistakes to him (while Victoria and Ruslan were always punished for every small mistake). Ruslan fell ill after the Olympics, he was probably few days out of the ice, so Victoria and Nikita could have a tryout, Alexeeva knew about it, but Ruslan didn't. Nikita didn't say nothing for 100%, so everything was coming to World Champs. After losing another medal possibility, Nikita is sure that he doesn't want to keep a partnership where he is not comfortable in and together with Victoria they make decision to skate together for sure.

I don't think that Nikita and Victoria planned it from the beginning of the season. They even didn't have time for it. I&K spent all summer in US, while S&Z had some training camps in Europe and then they spent all season in Moscow. I&K spent the main season in Novogorsk, which is not far from Moscow, but I don't think that couples or skaters met and had tryouts sooner (Kustarova and Russian Federation would know about it). But I&K spend some days before the Olympics with Kustarova, there was a possibility to talk a little bit more and training together could give Nikita an opportunity to watch Viki at practise and maybe this was the first stimulus to think about partnership with her.

For S&Z getting over Riazanova & Tkachenko at Russian Nationals was not a suprise. It was suprising that judges finally allowed it, but R&T were skating worse in 2012/13 season also, and both M&K and S&Z where better at Russian Nationals one year ago already, this year as well.

 

[uhh]

I don't think that Nikita and Victoria planned it from the beginning of the season. They even didn't have time for it. I&K spent all summer in US, while S&Z had some training camps in Europe and then they spent all season in Moscow. I&K spent the main season in Novogorsk, which is not far from Moscow, but I don't think that couples or skaters met and had tryouts sooner (Kustarova and Russian Federation would know about it). But I&K spend some days before the Olympics with Kustarova, there was a possibility to talk a little bit more and training together could give Nikita an opportunity to watch Viki at practise and maybe this was the first stimulus to think about partnership with her.

No, the time I/K spent with Kustarova was in 2013 before Worlds. Morozov was with them all of this season.

 

[sisinka]

No, the time I/K spent with Kustarova was in 2013 before Worlds. Morozov was with them all of this season.

Kustarova worked with I&K more times (but Morozov forgot to notice it, it was Nikita I believe who told it), she helped them with Polka and Lena mentioned in interview with Vaisekhovskaya that Kustarova helped them before the Olympics in Sochi also.

Lena: "I'm thrilled to join Kustarova's group. Lena made a great impression on me before the Olympics when we spent a short time working with her. Nikita and I needed some help since Morozov left to some competition. Kustarova was the person to provide that help. She didn't have to - she could just stand near the border and throw some remarks. We were someone else's pair, yet she worked with us as if we were her kids. The progress of that work was beyond any expectation."

 

[Abraxis12345]

There was a period when Ruslan was in the army last summer. Quite easy to have a tryout when one partner is not available...

 

[sisinka]

There was a period where Ruslan was in the army. Quite easy to have a tryout when one partner is not available...

It was about 2 or 3 days and I believe that in was in Moscow. And I am not sure whether it took whole day. And during this period I&K were still in US. Nikita was in army also, but some weeks later, until that time he was in US (in time when Nikita came back to Russia from US Ruslan was already on the ice).

 

[uhh]

Kustarova worked with I&K more times (but Morozov forgot to notice it, it was Nikita I believe who told it), she helped them with Polka and Lena mentioned in interview with Vaisekhovskaya that Kustarova helped them before the Olympics in Sochi also.

Lena: "I'm thrilled to join Kustarova's group. Lena made a great impression on me before the Olympics when we spent a short time working with her. Nikita and I needed some help since Morozov left to some competition. Kustarova was the person to provide that help. She didn't have to - she could just stand near the border and throw some remarks. We were someone else's pair, yet she worked with us as if we were her kids. The progress of that work was beyond any expectation."

No, trust me, there she is referring again to the 2013 season - "before the Olympics" does not mean directly preceding. Look back at Vaisekhovskaya's article when the coaches for the new teams were announced for confirmation that it was only that time before Worlds 2013.

 

[Alba]

They can't be serious? LOL.

From italian source, it seems that S&K are working just fine and Zueva most probably will be their coach.

 

[alithia]

I/Z really intend to stay with Kustarova?

 

[Alba]

Paso Doble will be more problematic for Victoria and Nikita. In Paso Doble a man usually plays the main role, he is the leader and head to head Ruslan is a passionate and temperament dancer while Nikita is dynamic dancer (especially with his arm moves) but not passionate or too temperament. Ruslan was a leader in a couple like Nikita, but Nikita was used to be hidden behind Lena (this was a choreographic idea – here comes Morovov once again, there is not even one program where would Nikita play the main role looking at choreography, while Ruslan’s part was equal with Victoria, sometimes he played the main role like in the Phantom of the Opera, but he was always the one who led in a couple and determined the direction). Both girls are not too passionate, so the more it will be about guys expression to show Paso Doble character and present their ladies.

I totally disagree with this.

Head to head Nikita is the man for Paso Doble, much more than Ruslan. He may exagerate though, that the risk.
I already had this discussion with you and I don't think it's fair to say that Nikita was hidden behind Lena at all. He was always the leader and you could see that. I actually do not like that in dance.
Yes, I like a strong man and it will be ideal if they are equal like V&M, but in the end I prefer the man presenting the Lady if I have to choose between having the man or the woman. You know very well that even in Ballet the woman is always the star, the one who's presented to the public.

Lena is very passionate, and I'm surprised you are saying the opposite.
Victoria on the other hand is the one who looks cold, and this was said by her coach. At least according to Johnny Weir which repeated that comment 100 times during their performance in Sochi

I/Z really intend to stay with Kustarova?

I think so. Elena chose her and she seems very happy about it.

 

[alithia]

I think so. Elena chose here and she seems very happy about it.

Thanks for clarifying, with the things I read here I got confused and thought they move to Morozov or something.

I also disagree as far as Nikita is concerned.He obvously was the leader of the couple and they themselves I think said that as well?He was definitely the central point of a lot of the footwork while Elena was destined to look pretty, until some part of Swan Lake when they obviously needed her star quality.But I also think that I/K styles clashed in many respects.Nikita has a tendency of overdoing it,if you don't look at his feet only you get annoyed by this. Ruslan was excellent in S/Z's Tango FD,while Viktoria wasn't in the mood,but he was totally lost in Norma, as if he couldn't understand what he's skating to, so relied on his tehcnical strenghts to get through it.
Viktoria on the other hand, is cold and has what I call , a fake look on the ice.She's a great skater but she reminds me a bit of why some people don't radiate on the ice.Beautiful girl as well,but she can't get through to the audience.My direct comparison would be Gabriella Papadakis who doesn't rely on her looks, cause a lot of posters wouldn't find her objectively beautiful,but on the ice she completely transforms.

 

[bekalc]

I don't think its fair to assume that anyone in this foursome is bad person. We don't know what the relationship was like between all of them, for us to say.

 

[Alba]

I don't understand why are you trying to imagine things.
Let's analyse what a good source like Vaytsekhovskaya told us already. From her words there are two things which sounds pretty clear to me.

His possible personal relations with the new partner have no interest to me,

Meaning he has a story with Victoria.

and if all that thing was a result of someone else's wish (and I have a reason to believe it was) then even more - Katsalapov who complied holds no interest to me."

Now here there are two options about that "someone else's wish":

a) That someone else could be Victoria. If she is in relationship with him I can see the jealousy, above all professional.
I&K being the most loved couple in Russia (I mean by the Fed and other powerful people lile Tarasova) and by the international judges?!
You bet I would be mad about it, and to think that his is my boyfriend and I could be his partner.
The bronze medal in Olympics was the last straw that broke the camel's back. So she "asked" (or possibly she even gave an ultimatum?) him to dance with her and he complied. Not much lost there, after all she is good looking and a good dancer, and she is your girlfriend.

b) It's somebody else, but I don't think it was Zueva at all. She most probably wanted to coach I&K, that I can see but not separate them.
So who's that somebody else? It's really hard for me to tell, when you think that I&K were praised and loved by the Russian high officials of FS.

I am more inclined to belive that it was Victoria, and If she really is in relationship with him, which seems so, than I'm 99.99% sure about it.

Time will tell us, but that's what I think and I'm almost convinced about that.

 

[Abraxis12345]

Viktoria on the other hand, is cold and has what I call , a fake look on the ice.She's a great skater but she reminds me a bit of why some people don't radiate on the ice.Beautiful girl as well,but she can't get through to the audience.My direct comparison would be Gabriella Papadakis who doesn't rely on her looks, cause a lot of posters wouldn't find her objectively beautiful,but on the ice she completely transforms.

Thanks for bringing up Papadakis. She and Nelli Zhiganshina are the type of girls who aren't what many would call beautiful but the way they package themselves makes you want to keep looking at them. Sinitsina to me is like a work of art. Very nice to look at, but you can also easily turn away.

Anyway, thought the SD for S/Z was very good and brought out more expression from Victoria because it worked well within whatever relationship Ruslan had with Victoria. They were not a couple and even in the one photoshoot they did, would not even pretend to be romantic. However, they had that playful, teasing relationship and they were able to work that in.

 

[Alba]

He was definitely the central point of a lot of the footwork while Elena was destined to look pretty, until some part of Swan Lake when they obviously needed her star quality.

This. :thumbsup:

Nikita has a tendency of overdoing it,if you don't look at his feet only you get annoyed by this.

Like waving his arms in the air, and upper body in the twizzels, a lot.

Ruslan was excellent in S/Z's Tango FD,while Viktoria wasn't in the mood,but he was totally lost in Norma, as if he couldn't understand what he's skating to, so relied on his tehcnical strenghts to get through it.

I personally didn't like that FD, and yeah I had the same impression as you do. Stylistically (is that the right word) I thought it was a bit too heavy and "old". The music version used was horrible.

Viktoria on the other hand, is cold and has what I call, a fake look on the ice.She's a great skater but she reminds me a bit of why some people don't radiate on the ice.Beautiful girl as well,but she can't get through to the audience.My direct comparison would be Gabriella Papadakis who doesn't rely on her looks, cause a lot of posters wouldn't find her objectively beautiful,but on the ice she completely transforms.

I know it's degustibus, but that's my opinion as well. Maybe with Nikita she will be better. He can compensate for her there.

 

[tulosai]

Now here there are two options about that "someone else's wish":

a) That someone else could be Victoria. ...

b) It's somebody else, but I don't think it was Zueva at all. She most probably wanted to coach I&K, that I can see but not separate them.
So who's that somebody else? It's really hard for me to tell, when you think that I&K were praised and loved by the Russian high officials of FS.

I am more inclined to belive that it was Victoria, and If she really is in relationship with him, which seems so, than I'm 99.99% sure about it.

Time will tell us, but that's what I think and I'm almost convinced about that.

I think a lot of people think it was Mozorov.

 

[sisinka]

I totally disagree with this.

Head to head Nikita is the man for Paso Doble, much more than Ruslan. He may exagerate though, that the risk.
I already had this discussion with you and I don't think it's fair to say that Nikita was hidden behind Lena at all. He was always the leader and you could see that. I actually do not like that in dance.
Yes, I like a strong man and it will be ideal if they are equal like V&M, but in the end I prefer the man presenting the Lady if I have to choose between having the man or the woman. You know very well that even in Ballet the woman is always the star, the one who's presented to the public.

I wrote: Ruslan was a leader in a couple like Nikita...

You missed the point. I was talking about choreography.
Nikita is a leader, I never put this in question, I wrote that he never played the main role in Morozov’s programs. That is different. Even under Zhulin Schindler’s List was quite equal, but at the end it went to Lena, she was the one who made final point and put herself in spotlight when she was shoot to death. Ballet Don Quijote was made in way you, Alba, decribed, a ballet dancer - man presenting his ballerina. But under Morozov? Where he was the main person? Where he presented his character in the main role. Yes, a man have to present his lady, which Nikita is very very good and detailed in, but in a moment when a man plays the main role, he also presents him part of story like the main character. For example Spartacus by Domnina & Shabalin, a program where Spartacus was the main, and Shabalin was the main character there plus he presented his lady. He was the one where choreography was turned to him. The same with Zhiganshin and Phantom of the Opera. Platov in Arabian dance. It doesn’t mean that lady should be forgotten, no way, the the choreohraphy is turned to man, a lady is working on him as well. Where do you see Lena presenting Nikita like the main character? Nowhere. She is the main in Ave Maria playing the angel and Nikita is presenting her. She is the main in Ghost story and Nikita is her partner. And she is the main in Swan Lake and Nikita presents her. She is always standing in the middle of the ice and posing for judges and Nikita is skating around her and rising his arms to her – this is not about him, but about her. That is choreographic idea. Morozov presented a Diva, Nikita presented a Diva, shich means that Nikita never played a main role in all programs, no matter that he is a leader and lead her lady throught steps.

Paso Doble is about passion, Nikita is dynamic, not passionate, Paso Doble is about a man who is the main in this dance and lady accompanies him, so no real Diva here, the man is the main...Nikita is not used that all choreography is about him mainly....that is what I wrote about. Look at Paso Doble of Domnina & Shabalin, Belbin & Agosto, Virtue & Moir...the man was the main...and all of these men are naturally passionate, while Nikita will have to learn to be passionate dancer.

 

[sisinka]

Lena is very passionate, and I'm surprised you are saying the opposite.
Victoria on the other hand is the one who looks cold, and this was said by her coach. At least according to Johnny Weir which repeated that comment 100 times during their performance in Sochi.

Krylova, Annisina, Navka, Domnina – an examples of passionate dancers.
If you look at passionate dance – Latin Dance which was in 2011/12 season like SD, you will see that Lena is sexy and smooth but not passionate, the final fast part is too fast for her and smooth moves are not enought. Nikita is more dynamic, but it was not passionate as well. The same with Tango part in 2010/11 SD, Nikita’s moves are more dynamic and Lena’s more smooth….this is not passion, where you have to keep tension in whole body plus movement must be still fast – watch Domnina & Shabalin’s Tango, Navka’s Carmen, also Weaver’s movements in Tango FD were passionate, but not Lena’s movements.
Also this season I&K's programs are smooth in moves but not passionate. Facial expression is passionate, but this is not dancing.

Victoria is not passionate as well, she is more cold in facial expression (which I personally don’t mind because I always mainly watch movements and dancing). The dynamics of arm moves is quite similar for both ladies, Lena is gliding more effortlessly which gives her look of faster one.

 

[sisinka]

I don't understand why are you trying to imagine things.
Let's analyse what a good source like Vaytsekhovskaya told us already. From her words there are two things which sounds pretty clear to me.

Meaning he has a story with Victoria.

Now here there are two options about that "someone else's wish":

a) That someone else could be Victoria. If she is in relationship with him I can see the jealousy, above all professional.
I&K being the most loved couple in Russia (I mean by the Fed and other powerful people lile Tarasova) and by the international judges?!
You bet I would be mad about it, and to think that his is my boyfriend and I could be his partner.
The bronze medal in Olympics was the last straw that broke the camel's back. So she "asked" (or possibly she even gave an ultimatum?) him to dance with her and he complied. Not much lost there, after all she is good looking and a good dancer, and she is your girlfriend.

b) It's somebody else, but I don't think it was Zueva at all. She most probably wanted to coach I&K, that I can see but not separate them.
So who's that somebody else? It's really hard for me to tell, when you think that I&K were praised and loved by the Russian high officials of FS.

I am more inclined to belive that it was Victoria, and If she really is in relationship with him, which seems so, than I'm 99.99% sure about it.

Time will tell us, but that's what I think and I'm almost convinced about that.

Russia and Russian World – it is all about a men, men and men…with one exception…Tarasova. But the man is always plaing the main role and have the biggest and the lastest world. In this world which is fully about a men 18 years old Sinitsina comes and manipulates 1) Nikita to skate with her, 2) Morozov to train them, 3) Zueva to train them in case that Morozov will not be allowed, 4) Russian Federation (all men there) to allow her to split two of three best Russian couples, 5) and she also manipulates Lena to say that it was all Nikita’s idea…sorry, this is so fantastic idea that I don’t believe it.

Like many coaches and skaters noted, they are one big family. Partners in dance couples know everything about themselves. They know even very personal things about themselves, because you simply can’t avoid knowing it spending so much time together. If a partner has relationship, his ice girl is one of first to know, so if there was a relationship between Nikita and some girl, Lena would be the first to know sooner or later even in moment when would Nikita tried to hide it. And if that girl would be a skater, Lena would know it from other skaters in few days after a relationship was started. If Lena told: “His possible personal relations…“ it means she didn’t know about relationship with Viki or any other girl…which is strange, like his ice partner, she would know for sure if there would be some relationship. Somebody also saw Lena and Nikita kissing in backstage around or after the Olympics, it would be hardly possible to do than having relationship with anyone else, no? There is also a video where Nikita takes some older showbusiness star into a car in late night from some of the parties after the Olympics, well, we are all adult ones (I hope), so we are not going to play this “he was just taking her home and they talked only“ game. Would he do it having a relationship?
While having a relationship with Lena, there were pictures with a couple kissing everywhere. There is not even one picture with Viki together (because forum members would post it for sure), even now, when all people discuss their possible relationship there is no picture together, even from Viki’s birthday. While Lena and Ruslan are not dating, but Ruslan was invited at Lena’s birthday, they have pictures together from that party, pictures together from gym. Yes, Nikita probably wants to protect him personal life, that is why he posted shirtless picture to let whole world see his body…

If I imagine that S&K would really be in a relationship (and I am sure that they will be in relationship soon, but not now), I can imagine that both couples would go to one coach or to one city…without destroying two couples. Many Russian male skaters are dating ladies which are not their ice partners, as I know they are not destroying their partnership because of it.

 

[Abraxis12345]

I was always confused at where people got the idea that they are in a relationship. It was always a question rather than anything confirmed by insiders. And I saw the split like this; Nikita was tired of Elena and fighting with her. He wanted out. But of the Russian girls, who is he going to skate with? Bobrova is out of the question. Monko and Yanovskaya are too tall. The rest have technical issues. That leaves Sinitsina. She is good technically. She is taller but not too tall. And by all reports, she has a fairly good temper. Out of all the possible partners for Nikita, she made the most sense.

As for why Victoria left, let's face it. She could either be like Rubleva and Schefer, skate with the only partner you've ever had and never make it to the top 10, nevermind medal, or risk everything and skate with the guy everyone is calling the best partner in the world. Whether it was 100% her idea or someone in the federation encouraged her to do it, that was the choice she had.