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- Thread starter Dodhiyel
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me too!!! But by now Im tired of waiting for a ratification...
I agree. I just think the penalties should be harsher for falling.
I think the Zamboni should chase them if they fall.
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- Mar 12, 2007
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Thanks for saying this so much better, and in many fewer words, than I did!
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- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
As I understand it, an underrotation is actually worse than a fall.
For situations like what happened to Kimmie, I have come up with a new over-size smiley.
............... Feel free to use it anytime...........
For situations like what happened to Kimmie, I have come up with a new over-size smiley.
............... Feel free to use it anytime...........
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
this I agree with. I think a fall should be more than just a one point deduction... I think it's absurd to get credit for a full rotation if you fall on a jump. obviously you didn't do it right or you wouldn't have landed on your backside.
I say this as a big Alissa fan. I can't believe Kimmie got called for a bunch of urs when Alissa survived it. Oh well..
Kimmie looked so happy with a beaming smile when she finished that program. I've never been her fan, but I wan genuinely happy for her. So, how did she manage to get career low score even with ur?
OTOH, I'm extremely happy for Fumie, Rachael, and Alissa!
Kimmie looked so happy with a beaming smile when she finished that program. I've never been her fan, but I wan genuinely happy for her. So, how did she manage to get career low score even with ur?
OTOH, I'm extremely happy for Fumie, Rachael, and Alissa!
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2005
A lot of skaters have landed the jump but hit a bad patch of ice, so the fell.
1 If a jump is UR that is clearly the skaters fault.
2 one must do a triple before they can land it.
3 I believe a fall triple is better that a badly overrotated double with a clean ride out.
Had things to do, but I have read every post in this thread. Thank you all.
Regarding falls--the ISU has said that backflips in eligible competitions are illegal because they are not really skating moves.
I take that to mean that they are aerial moves.
Multiple rotations are also aerial moves. They take place in the air, not with feet on ice.
Because of these things, I have long felt that an inability to land a jump, is of prime importance in figure skating. It is the ability to land it well after a disorienting spin in the air, that is the true test of the skater. Multiple aerial rotations are impressive, but that is not actually skating. Touching down one's foot on the ice afterward, now that *is* skating. This is only my opinion, but it seems relevant to the discussion in this thread. Perhaps we ought to have a Rotations vs. Landings thread lol.
One more thing: even in gymnastics, where there is no ice, you still have to land your aerial moves well. Also, when flying an airplane, lololol, you had better be able to land without crashing lolololol or you do not get credit for your aerial moves lololol
Regarding falls--the ISU has said that backflips in eligible competitions are illegal because they are not really skating moves.
I take that to mean that they are aerial moves.
Multiple rotations are also aerial moves. They take place in the air, not with feet on ice.
Because of these things, I have long felt that an inability to land a jump, is of prime importance in figure skating. It is the ability to land it well after a disorienting spin in the air, that is the true test of the skater. Multiple aerial rotations are impressive, but that is not actually skating. Touching down one's foot on the ice afterward, now that *is* skating. This is only my opinion, but it seems relevant to the discussion in this thread. Perhaps we ought to have a Rotations vs. Landings thread lol.
One more thing: even in gymnastics, where there is no ice, you still have to land your aerial moves well. Also, when flying an airplane, lololol, you had better be able to land without crashing lolololol or you do not get credit for your aerial moves lololol
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2006
I agree. Too many skaters were winning while cheating a lot of their jumps. If a jump is not technically sound in the first place (which I believe is the issue with a lot of these skaters as it seems to be the same ones getting dinged for it in the first place), it shouldn't count as high as one that is but with a fall on the landing. Here is my analogy...In a math problem, some teacher sgive credit for showing your work. You may have done the equation properly, but miscalculated at the end and still got the wrong answer (fall); however, if you cheat you are going to get the right answer, but you didn't do the work in the first place (underrotated). I am NOT saying that these skaters are trying to cheat, I am just saying that I understand why a fall on a sound jump counts more than and underrotated one.
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2006
Yes, but in gymnastics you are penalized if your elements are not fully rotated as well. When doing a triple twist, if you don't get the last twist around more than 3/4, it counts as a double, plus you land poorly and are deducted for that as well.
Yeah, but if you are falling (and there was no rut in the ice), then that means you aren't doing the jump properly. Maybe your blade is rotated enough on the ice, but if you fell, then obviously something was technically wrong with your actual jump. It's not like a math problem where you may have done everything correct until calculating the final answer.
The media articles are funny to me...
"In a disappointing performance, 2006 world champion Kimmie Meissner was eighth." -- USA Today
Disappointing? She skated clean and was thrilled. lol. Oh man.
The difference is that in gymnastics, you are penalized far more for falling than you would be for getting your triple twist downgraded to a 2.5 twist. But don't get me started on that sport. Their scoring system has issues.
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- Oct 27, 2006
I was never a very good skater, by any stretch of the imagination, but I 'chose ' to cheat my jumps and stay on my feet than truly go for it, and risk falling. It was the easier and safer of the 2 options. Probably why I was never very good!!
For the purists, Kimmie's score may make sense. But nitpicking a skater's program with slow-motion replays is killing the sport. It's the equivalent of having slo-mo replays for balls and strikes in baseball. In baseball, you get some bad calls and some gifts but in the end, it evens out if the umpiring is at all competent (and honest). What figure skating needed was better and more honest/less biased judging. Instead, the judges are even more insulated from having to justify their scores by anonymity. In my opinion, unless the judging system is changed to reward clean and well-performed programs and to make the judging understandable to the audience, it's just a matter of time before figure skating becomes a sport like fencing or diving--interesting to the aficionados but to no one else, except maybe every four years at the Olympics.
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Funny how this outcry about UR is going on because it was an American star who got hit. No one seemed too upset with Mira Leung getting hit by UR this season. And it is very rare for her to fall! In fact I remember posts about how glad people were to see that she was getting caught for her URs. And let's not forget Jennifer Robinson who when COP 1st came in got UR in most of her shorts. Once again I seem to be reading between the lines that there should be one set of rules for the US ladies and another for all others. No one should stop and do replays when a US lady skates because as long as they stand up they should be given the benifit of the doubt.
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- Oct 31, 2006
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I think we're already at that point, at least in the United States. Only 4 hours of televised international (Skate America and Worlds) coverage on a basic tv network (NBC).
I agree with you, but I think the outcry is simply because the majority of posters on this board are US citizens. UR calls have been painful for fans of skaters from all nationalities. I personally can't say it pains me to see the UR calls because back in 6.0 days, Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes were consistent offenders of this technical flaw and never got penalized when I believe they should have been.
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- Joined
- Dec 7, 2005
That is so true no matter what nationality your are.
I think there's been outcry over this UR thing from time to time for a while now. Many people seem to feel that UR is penalized too harshly in comparison to falls.
I don't think it's really a nationality thing. I think people just tend to pay more attention to the skaters you hear about the most. Mira hasn't ever really been a top contender, and her jumps have always been wonky anyway. If she got dinged for a lot of UR this season, I wouldn't really know enough about her to know if that was the norm for her or not.
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2006
I agree....I love the Zamboni...it's the second best part of skating!!
I do have to say this though....I don't know if we would be talking so much about the UR's or falls on jumps if the skating so far wasn't as lackluster and the splatfest that it has been. Perhaps if everyone, or at least the favorites, were skating well then would we even be having this conversation?
All I know is that if this is the kind of skating that we are going to be having at worlds....well I am glad that I have DVR and will just record the whole thing.....and it doesn't really bode well going into and Olympic year next year.
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