- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Well, where to go from here? Novices already doing 3/2 combos. Interesting...! 
http://usfsa.org/event_story.asp?id=20894
http://usfsa.org/event_story.asp?id=20894
Novices doing triples
- Thread starter RealtorGal
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
There was a boy here in Kenai last year who couldn't have been more than 12 doing triple-double combos in his exhibition program, and had an AWESOME circular footwork sequence. If he sticks with it and skates competitively I wouldn't be surprised if he made it to Nationals and made a real impact
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2004
Why are you surprised?
Look at....
-Danielle Kahle
-Erica Archambault
-Elizabeth Kwon (when she skated)
-Young Michelle
-Tara!
-Bebe
-The Asadas
at Novice in the USA
-Katarina Hacker is the youngest Novice lady at nats this year, but she is in 4th after the short and has great triple jumps.
-Kimmie Meissener is 12 I believe and has a triple lutz.Will skate Junior this year
-Kristine Zukowski--14? Has a triple lutz.
Look at....
-Danielle Kahle
-Erica Archambault
-Elizabeth Kwon (when she skated)
-Young Michelle
-Tara!
-Bebe
-The Asadas
at Novice in the USA
-Katarina Hacker is the youngest Novice lady at nats this year, but she is in 4th after the short and has great triple jumps.
-Kimmie Meissener is 12 I believe and has a triple lutz.Will skate Junior this year
-Kristine Zukowski--14? Has a triple lutz.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
I am very impressed! I just didn't realize how advanced the Novices were. The term "novice" seemed to indicate something much less technically advanced. Live and learn!
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2003
RGirl,
In regards to Novice sounding like a lower level of competition, I couldn't have agreed more, until I went and watched sectionals this year.
Here in Canada, I was very impressed with our Novice Ladies. I saw more triples landed clean there than I did in the Senior Ladies. Senior Ladies was a zamboni event, and I did not see ONE clean triple from our ladies. The Novice and Junior were far more exciting to watch.
Canuck
In regards to Novice sounding like a lower level of competition, I couldn't have agreed more, until I went and watched sectionals this year.
Here in Canada, I was very impressed with our Novice Ladies. I saw more triples landed clean there than I did in the Senior Ladies. Senior Ladies was a zamboni event, and I did not see ONE clean triple from our ladies. The Novice and Junior were far more exciting to watch.
Canuck
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Thanks, Canuck! Very interesting...
BTW, I am "RGal"--"RGirl" is my twin sister--we were separated at birth but both share a love for all things moo (except, of course, for beef, veal, etc.)
BTW, I am "RGal"--"RGirl" is my twin sister--we were separated at birth but both share a love for all things moo (except, of course, for beef, veal, etc.)
sk8tngcanuck said:
Yeah, in pre-novice there are usually at least a couple girls who has a triple and a few that have the double axel, can't win without it. By the time we reach Novice, all have a 2A and usually two triples is a must if you want to be at all competitive. my coach wouldn't let me try my novice test until my triple loop was consistent, even though it is not needed for the test. By Junior, all the triples should be had, but the lutz is forgiven. Building from Novice to Senior usually only involves speed, consistancy and confidence, and hopefully the triple lutz.
I know a girl who competed at intermediate level last year, already have all the triples except the triple axel. But her coach take out all triples from her competing programs in last year's comp, she ended up with all overrotated doubles. She just passed one of two senior test (which is a more difficult one) of USFSA. She will compete at Junior level this year.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Why did he take out all the triples from her program?
btw, he is Rafael.
I think it's the same reason as MK not include 3/3. I guess he wanted her skated clean with good presentation, which she did.
It was two year ago I heard the mom said the kid falled on a jump in a comp, she was too nervers in competetion although she rarely falled in practice. According to kid's mom, it's complete different thing doing it in practice and in competetion. But she will do triples in this year's programs. In practice Rafael has her do all jumps out of footwork.
Obviousely by overrotating every doubles (I counted 9 or 10 of them, just too much), judges knew she had the triples. I think it is not secret at her last year regional that Frank had an eye on her, talked with her about 10 min after she skated.
I think it's the same reason as MK not include 3/3. I guess he wanted her skated clean with good presentation, which she did.
It was two year ago I heard the mom said the kid falled on a jump in a comp, she was too nervers in competetion although she rarely falled in practice. According to kid's mom, it's complete different thing doing it in practice and in competetion. But she will do triples in this year's programs. In practice Rafael has her do all jumps out of footwork.
Obviousely by overrotating every doubles (I counted 9 or 10 of them, just too much), judges knew she had the triples. I think it is not secret at her last year regional that Frank had an eye on her, talked with her about 10 min after she skated.
Triples in novice is nothing new. From a Skating magazine report of 1976 Pacific Coasts:
"The pursuit of the much revered triple jump appeared at the Novice level, in both men's and ladies' categories. Jill Sawyer's triple helped raise her from seventh to third . . . A similar giant step up came in the Men's division. Reggie Raiford ultimately maintained the lead he gained in figures, but Scott Prussack, who was ninth in figures, won the free skating with two double Axels and a triple Salchow."
When the "novice" category was first added to the US competition structure in the 1930s, it was basically for novices/newcomers to national-level competition. It would still have taken a couple of years of skating experience to get to that level, during which skaters would have been practicing hard and testing, but not really competing.
As the standards at the higher levels went up and lower-level skaters wanted opportunities to get experience competing before reaching the elite levels, more levels were added at lower levels below novice (intermediate, juvenile, and preliminary -- more recently, prejuvenile and prepreliminary as well), but they didn't change the name of that category -- so you need to think of it as novices to elite competition, not novices to figure skating in general.
The standard at novice level is high enough that only the very talented can get there with 2-3 years of training, and many less talented or less committed skaters can train at a less intense level all the way through junior high and high school without reaching the standard needed to pass the novice tests or to be capable of skating a clean short program according to novice requirements before they graduate.
Double-double combination is probably the sticking point for most who can't pass the novice freestyle test -- for junior it's often the flying sitspin -- novice/junior/senior Moves in the Field tests are also a lot harder than the earlier tests, and in the old days figures would have been the main barrier to moving up.
"The pursuit of the much revered triple jump appeared at the Novice level, in both men's and ladies' categories. Jill Sawyer's triple helped raise her from seventh to third . . . A similar giant step up came in the Men's division. Reggie Raiford ultimately maintained the lead he gained in figures, but Scott Prussack, who was ninth in figures, won the free skating with two double Axels and a triple Salchow."
When the "novice" category was first added to the US competition structure in the 1930s, it was basically for novices/newcomers to national-level competition. It would still have taken a couple of years of skating experience to get to that level, during which skaters would have been practicing hard and testing, but not really competing.
As the standards at the higher levels went up and lower-level skaters wanted opportunities to get experience competing before reaching the elite levels, more levels were added at lower levels below novice (intermediate, juvenile, and preliminary -- more recently, prejuvenile and prepreliminary as well), but they didn't change the name of that category -- so you need to think of it as novices to elite competition, not novices to figure skating in general.
The standard at novice level is high enough that only the very talented can get there with 2-3 years of training, and many less talented or less committed skaters can train at a less intense level all the way through junior high and high school without reaching the standard needed to pass the novice tests or to be capable of skating a clean short program according to novice requirements before they graduate.
Double-double combination is probably the sticking point for most who can't pass the novice freestyle test -- for junior it's often the flying sitspin -- novice/junior/senior Moves in the Field tests are also a lot harder than the earlier tests, and in the old days figures would have been the main barrier to moving up.
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Oh, yeah that girl I talked about just passed the senior test of Moving in Field. They say another senior test Figure is much easy to pass, right? According to Mishine (the girl attended a Mishine's clinic he held at CA), what the girl needed is the speed, after two sessions Mishine told her 'why you are here? get out here you don't need to be here'.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Kimmie Meissner turned 14 in October. She does have a triple lutz and also has a 3/3 in her long program.youarewhipped said:
mzheng said:
The "senior" figures test - or 8th Figure Test - is way harder than moves in the field. They don't require skaters to take figures tests any more - that's what moves in the field replaced. Your friend's next test woyld be the Senior Freestyle (jumps and spins). Whether or not it is easier than the moves in the field would be a matter of opinion (one I don't have since I'll never get there LOL). Hope that helps
.sk8er1964 said:The "senior" figures test - or 8th Figure Test - is way harder than moves in the field. They don't require skaters to take figures tests any more - that's what moves in the field replaced. Your friend's next test woyld be the Senior Freestyle (jumps and spins). Whether or not it is easier than the moves in the field would be a matter of opinion (one I don't have since I'll never get there LOL). Hope that helps
Thanks.
Only two tests are required fro senior right? The one she passed is a more difficult one, the other one according to her mom is much easier, almost every one takes got passed. A lot of girls older than her failed at that test, but she passed. They saved that easier one later. Since once you passed both you have to compete at Senior level, that's not the plan. The plan is skip one level go for the Junior this year. I watched her this year's programs on tape, I would say her presentation and edge quality is better than Michelle at the same age (12). But she dose not have Michelle's jump ability at the same age. lol.
