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- Oct 22, 2005
is it because she competed only once under cop, at the very end of her career when she was hampered by chronic hip injury?
ding!!!
is it because she competed only once under cop, at the very end of her career when she was hampered by chronic hip injury?
Oh Mathman... you just had to inject some logic into the discussion, didn't youIs it because she competed only once under CoP, at the very end of her career when she was hampered by chronic hip injury?
Inflated Nationals scores don't automatically boost international scores. As much as Canadian fans want Osmond to be on the same level as Kim, wishing doesn't make it so.
We're talking about a skater (Kim) who is among the all-time greats. Even if she is off her 2010 level, she is still the class of the field. As far as Kaetlyn, I find it interesting that if Mao were to skate these type of programs she would be called 'juniorish' by many on here, but when Kaetlyn skates the same programs she is all of a sudden on par with Yuna artistically.
I was sort of thinking this in particular with Kaetlyn's Carmen program. I remember when Mirai got lots of criticism when she did her FS to Carmen in 2010 because she was too juniorish or not mature enough for Carmen. Yet when Kaetlyn does a similar program with that same perk, people argue that she's a great performer. For the record, I think there's room for perky and bullish Carmens too.
I was sort of thinking this in particular with Kaetlyn's Carmen program. I remember when Mirai got lots of criticism when she did her FS to Carmen in 2010 because she was too juniorish or not mature enough for Carmen. Yet when Kaetlyn does a similar program with that same perk, people argue that she's a great performer. For the record, I think there's room for perky and bullish Carmens too.
Is it because she competed only once under CoP, at the very end of her career when she was hampered by chronic hip injury?
Let's think about this for a second - despite skating to a similar selection of music, what are the differences between Mirai's Carmen and Kaetlyn's Carmen from a PCS standpoint? Is there any notable differences? Yes, no and why?
Is it because she competed only once under CoP, at the very end of her career when she was hampered by chronic hip injury?
I'd put them equal-ish in PCS (I'd tie them for choreography, give Mirai a slight advantage in interpretation and Skating skills, Katelyn a larger advantage in transitions, and give Mirai the advantage in performance/execution.
However, as I noted above, in terms of the elements, I'd have Mirai over Kaetlyn. She has stronger spins, footwork, spirals, and better stamina and pacing throughout (note I am comparing the Carmen programs, not Mirai to Kaetlyn now). Kaetlyn has bigger jumps but Mirai's jumps were solid that season at the major competitions (other than Worlds) and I wouldn't give Kaetlyn a huge GOE advantage there. Overall, I think that season with both programs skated to their potential, Mirai and her program had the advantage.
Did you just accuse Michelle Kwan of malingering? How ridiculous can you be? :no:Touché. Yes, the "injury", some said it was due to an allergic reaction to the CoP. Still, it doesn't change the fact her outing under CoP was her worst showing at Worlds since 1995 Worlds as she missed the podium.
Having just watched Mirai's Carmen again (the link is in post 49), my reaction is: It is a crime to judge this performance under CoP add-up-the-points. :yes:
Having just watched Mirai's Carmen again (the link is in post 49), my reaction is: It is a crime to judge this performance under CoP add-up-the-points. :yes:
Here is something else interesting. Three skaters have been mentioned on this thread as having clean and uncluttered jump entries: Michelle Kwan, Evgeny Plushenko, and Yuna Kim. Um, OK, so that's three of the greatest figure skaters of all time. Does that tell you anything?
More love.
If you look at Kim's epic 150-point Olympic long program, here are the "transitions" that she does into her jumps.
3Lz+3T (none)
3F (none)
2A+2T+2Lo (Ina Bauer)
2A+3T (spread eagle)
3S (a few hops)
3Lz (none)
2A (none)
Yu-na, si. CoP, no.
Having just watched Mirai's Carmen again (the link is in post 49), my reaction is: It is a crime to judge this performance under CoP add-up-the-points. :yes:
Here is something else interesting. Three skaters have been mentioned on this thread as having clean and uncluttered jump entries: Michelle Kwan, Evgeny Plushenko, and Yuna Kim. Um, OK, so that's three of the greatest figure skaters of all time. Does that tell you anything?
If you look at Kim's epic 150-point Olympic long program, here are the "transitions" that she does into her jumps.
3Lz+3T (none)
3F (none)
2A+2T+2Lo (Ina Bauer)
2A+3T (spread eagle)
3S (a few hops)
3Lz (none)
2A (none)
Yu-na, si. CoP, no.
If you look at Kim's epic 150-point Olympic long program, here are the "transitions" that she does into her jumps.
3Lz+3T (none)
3F (none)
2A+2T+2Lo (Ina Bauer)
2A+3T (spread eagle)
3S (a few hops)
3Lz (none)
2A (none)
Yu-na, si. CoP, no.
You are correct in your identification of Choctaw. However, at this level if only a single type of turn is performed and nothing else accompanies it, then it is not deemed as sufficient to meet the requirement of connecting steps - otherwise, it simply becomes too easy. Put it this way, a skater can accidentally perform a Choctaw by simply entering a spin from back inside edge into forward outside edge - should that count as transition as well into the said spin and therefore merit extra bullet points? The rules are in fact quite stringent with regard to what satisfies as connecting steps and or comparable free skating moves in that even a single spread eagle or spiral is considered insufficient and therefore, cannot be considered as a difficult entry for the purpose of GOE (albeit, in practice during FS, that depends on how lenient the individual judge is). Since it doesn't satisfy the requirement as part of the GOE, it would also be difficult to say it meets the "variety, difficulty and intricacy" requirements of TR component as well.
The only thing that can be considered here is the quality of the execution but that only satisfies 1 of the 4 sub-criteria within the TR component. In hindsight, the exasperate way I stated it make it sound I was dismissive of that. In part, that's because I felt jaylee was making up things that didn't exist, including the non-existent back spiral and the so called "mini-spread eagle". Thanks for making this good point.