Random Figure Skating Questions

What would you copyright?

The composer and performer own the music. Say you paid David Wilson for the choreo, and I suppose you and he co-own it, but I have never seen such an ownership enforced. Somehow, you should have deliberately sought an official copyright, if you wanted that.

For example, kids who write songs put them on bandcamp.com, with the lyrics typed in, and bandcamp adds a copyright symbol, which covers them from someone else trying to claim ownership of their song. To enforce a copyright, you have to provide evidence of ownership. I suppose you could upload your performance to youtube, and say it was your copyrighted program, but to some extent your performance belongs to the companies who have the broadcast rights, I would think?

I don't think you can own an arm movement or a lift.

But mostly, choreo is so generic that it would be hard to defend, I would think.

Is there a right to own a 3lz3t 3s 3lp spin spin f/w 3f3Lp 3Lz2t2lp spin, skated to Carmen program?

But people will notice, including judges, that this is not an orginal program, and there are supposed to be points for orginality, which you will not earn.

Tough question.

I know in the days before youtube etc., some skaters were very protective of their choreography and even their music choices, keeping them a surprise until the first competition of the season.

If a skater has a unique move (or more than one), it'll make a big splash the first time s/he does it publicly. Then it may become a signature move. But other skaters will start imitating and trying to come up with their own variations as well.

Judges will probably give points for originality to the first skater they see do the move -- which may not be the first skater who did it. Especially if the skater who "borrowed" the move is competing at a higher level, on a wider stage, than the one who originated it but didn't get much exposure.

Or if the move was common in the past, fell out of favor, and is later revived. Does the new skater get originality credit for doing something no one else in her era is doing, or not so much because it's been done before. Probably depends on whether/how often those particular judges had seen it before.

A lot of the originality in skating is not so much the individual moves, but the way they're put together. From specific transitions in and out of elements, or unusual sequences of elements or other highlight moves, to whole program concepts.

What would it be feasible for a skater and choreographer to own about the choreography? Specific moves or variations? Specific sequences within a program? Whole programs? How much would a new skater need to imitate for the new performance to be considered plagiarized?

How does it work in ballet? If you are the head choreographer for a production of Swan Lake, can you say, "hey, I choreographed 32 turning fouettes for Odille, and you copied me."

Mathman said:

^ I fread once that Janet Lynn spent six months trying to perfect a particular arm movement. When she got to U.S. Nationals, she discovered that her rival Julie Lynn Holmes and her coach Carlo Fassi had stolen the move and put it in Holmes' program. To add insult to injury, Holmes skated first, making it seem like Lynn was copying her.

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Why would it take anyone 6 months to perfect an arm movement? Would be interested to know what the exact arm movement was, how unique it was.

Icey said:

Why would it take anyone 6 months to perfect an arm movement? Would be interested to know what the exact arm movement was, how unique it was.

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I know, right? That must have been some arm movement!

I wish I could find the article now -- I may not be remembering the details exactly right. The thrust of the piece was what a perfectionist Janet Lynn was with respect to attention to detail. For that matter, it might be that the other skater just accidentally came up with something similar, without any nefarious scheming going on. (Although the great Carlo Fassi was a notorious schemer.)

I remember there was a little mini-tempest in teacup among fans when Sasha Cohen and Michelle Kwan both resurrected the Charlotte spiral for competitive programs in the same year. Who was trying to copy whom?

Icey said:

Why would it take anyone 6 months to perfect an arm movement? Would be interested to know what the exact arm movement was, how unique it was.

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Haha, I was wondering the exact same thing, especially because Julie seemed to get it on first sight. Me thinks Janet was a major drama queen. Nothing wrong with it, most artists are.

This is a really stupid question but why were both the GPF and Worlds held in Japan last year? I thought it was almost an unwritten rule that every major competition is in a different country throughout the season.

Isabel_O'Reilly said:

This is a really stupid question but why were both the GPF and Worlds held in Japan last year? I thought it was almost an unwritten rule that every major competition is in a different country throughout the season.

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Because other countries don't want to host these events I guess? Russia already had Sochi to worry over.

Rhodium said:

By the way, Elena's signature is just "Radio", so this abridgement is sanctioned by Elena herself

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probably the most random question ever, but is Elena a leftie (as in this picture) ?

Isabel_O'Reilly said:

This is a really stupid question but why were both the GPF and Worlds held in Japan last year? I thought it was almost an unwritten rule that every major competition is in a different country throughout the season.

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A major part of the explanation is the tsunami in Japan in 2011.

Worlds had been scheduled for Japan in 2011 -- and hastily were moved to Russia.
Because Japan missed its "turn" to host Worlds that year, Japan was given Worlds for the next available year, which was 2014.
At the time of the tsunami, 2012 Worlds already had been given to France. And 2013 to Canada.

CaroLiza_fan said:

I could have sworn that Mrs. P gave us the definitive explanation on how to pronounce Nam Nguyen's name one time, but I can't find it now that I want to!

But, I can find a conversation that started with bartlebooth complaining about how the British Eurosport commentators were pronouncing it during the Men's SP at Worlds last season:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...-Short-Program&p=893557&viewfull=1#post893557

The conversation continues intermittantly over the next 2 pages of the thread, but ends abruptly when Kim Lucine does his Super Mario routine, and all talk unsurprisingly turns to it!

Hope this helps

CaroLiza_fan

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Vietnamese is my first language, so pronouncing "Nguyen" just comes naturally to me. I never think about the phonetic mechanism behind it. It's interesting to read that conversation, but new-wen and new-win are both wrong.

^ I've taught Vietnamese students English, and when I asked them how to pronounce the name"Nguyen," I've been told "Win," so that's what I've done for years. So, what is the final word on this?

ok so there's always talk about unfairness, politic and bribery in this sport

so my question is where was the money came from
fed, was there ever be any case ?
athlete own money, from sponsor maybe?
outside party, like in soccer there always a criminal organization that have gambling business in scoring gol at match, thus scandal in fix games?

but alot talk about the dying of this sport in public present
do any of u guys ever stumble upon some serious bet with money about the outcome of some competition

if it is all for the glory of nation, do people go to that length

^ I agree with the thrust of this question. I can't see any big-time money players taking an interest in who wins a skating contest. I think the "politics" is internal within the ISU. In any pond, however shallow, people will always jockey to be the big frog. National Federations heads, etc., fancy themselves as power brokers, people make deals in exchange for appointments to ISU committees, etc.

After watching the pairs' event today at Skate Canada, I started wondering about side-by-side jumps: Has any pair ever done SBS triple loops? I can't recall ever seeing SBS loops (too hard to synchronize, maybe?), but I think I've seen every other triple attempted (save for 3A, of course). Thanks in advance!

Returning to the pronounciation sub-theme that has appeared in this thread.

A thing that I have often wondered about is how Megan Duhamel pronounces her surname.

I first came across that surname thanks to Quebecois motorbike rider Miguel Duhamel. Miguel spent most of his career racing in America, where he became one of the AMA's most successful riders ever, winning 8 Championships. He is the son of another motorbike racer, Yvon Duhamel, who my Dad remembers watching.

Anyway, Miguel always pronounces his surname with a silent "H" ("Doo-a-mel"), as he wants it to rhyme with his first name.

However, there is a great variety of ways that the American commentators pronounce his name! Some pronounce it the same way as Miguel does. But, I have also heard them use "Doo-hammel" and "Doo-hommel".

So, what is the proper Quebecois pronounciation, and what way does Megan pronounce it?

Mathman said:

A skating name that I was always curious about is (Alissa) Czisny. Do you think this is a shortened form of something like Czizinsky?

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You know, until you wrote that, it never actually dawned on me that Alissa's surname was Polish. I just assumed that it was French in origin (seeing as Ohio was originally colonised by the French, and it is near Quebec). Like, if you try to pronounce it with a French accent, it does sound VERY convincing!

"Cis-née"

Just out of curiosity, I put "Czisny" into Google Translate, and set the language to Polish. And the listen button says "Chis-na".

I wonder how Alissa pronounces it... :think:


Maybe I am an evil so-and-so. But I always love it when I hear people struggling to pronounce Polish names.

Don't get me wrong, I always used to struggle with Polish names myself. But then I watched an episode of "Who Do You Think You Are?". I can't remember who the celebrity was (or whether it was on the UK or American version), but they found out that they had Polish ancestors. They were going through the family tree with some expert, and were really struggling to get their tongue around the names. And then the expert told them that the "z"'s in Polish names are silent.

And suddenly everything that had ever confused me about Polish words made sense!


It really does give you a good feeling inside when you find out wee gems of information like this. Which is why I love this thread! (Even though it is getting too big to easily find things in...)

CaroLiza_fan

I struggle with Polish names every day

I'm wondering how does a skater qualify for GPF, as each of the GP event comprises of different skaters of different ability. Some GP event is easier for top skater to win when the overall field is not strong. Thanks

CaroLiza_fan said:

You know, until you wrote that, it never actually dawned on me that Alissa's surname was Polish. I just assumed that it was French in origin (seeing as Ohio was originally colonised by the French, and it is near Quebec). Like, if you try to pronounce it with a French accent, it does sound VERY convincing!

"Cis-née"

Just out of curiosity, I put "Czisny" into Google Translate, and set the language to Polish. And the listen button says "Chis-na".

I wonder how Alissa pronounces it... :think:

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Here is what Alissa said in a "kid's Questions" feature in 2005.

Question: Is your last name Russian or Ukrainian? My last name is Russian.

Alisa Chernomashentsev, 9, Jacksonville, Fla.

Alissa: My last name is shortened from a Prussian name. Prussia no longer exists as a country, but it was in the area of present-day Germany, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Russia. I am also of Swedish, Norwegian, English, French, Russian, and Icelandic descent. That makes me one of the many Americans that fit into the description of the "melting pot" of America.

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http://www.usfsa.org/Magazine.asp?id=57&issue=32361

A "Prussian" name ought to mean German, but Prussia contained a sizable Polish minority population throughout its history.

I am pretty sure Alissa pronounces her name "Sizz-ney" (rhymes with Disney ).

Dr. Jenn said:

After watching the pairs' event today at Skate Canada, I started wondering about side-by-side jumps: Has any pair ever done SBS triple loops? I can't recall ever seeing SBS loops (too hard to synchronize, maybe?), but I think I've seen every other triple attempted (save for 3A, of course). Thanks in advance!

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Offhand, the only team I can remember attempting side-by-side triple loops was Natalie Vlandis and Jered Guzman in the 1990s, but I can't remember them succeeding.