2014-2015 GPF Mens Free Skate 12/13

[Alba]

Actually, the analogy is with the choreographer not the skater.. Some choreographers and choreographer/skater teams manage to include all the elements and create masterpieces. No one complains those programs have "too many notes".

In my original program it was very clear what I meant. But you chose to be sarcastic, instead of bringing any argument of why you think I'm wrong, or disagree with.

Too much can hurt a program as well. It doesn't necessarily mean it's beautiful.
Furthermore, the main problem in Javi's case is that till now he hasn't been able to deliver that program in its full potential. He might do that very well at Euros or Worlds, I don't know that. But I don't think the choreo/the program will suffer or be less beautiful, if they could lighten a bit the transitions.

I'm not saying go from Javi to Voronov kind of program.

 

[Meoima]

Not exactly. Beethoven designed the piece as a memorial to the heroic achievements of Napoleon who he hoped would go on to inspire Europe to a humanist, libertarian, egalitarian revolution. So, I would say the communicative power of Eroica is more about that, not an individual. It was a message of change, to inspire audiences to consider a new world-view.

In some way it's his ideal of individual heroism IMO. Critics nowadays approach it more like a story of Beethoven's own ideal life about an inspirational hero. But anyways I think it's a better fit for sym 9 which is too extreme.

 

[yyyskate]

missed this quality discussion here, need to catch up
a bit opinion about Machida's program, I also think his GPF performance is better than SA, SA i found less connection to the music itself, GPF much better.
I think Javi's LP itself is indeed a jam-packed programs with genius ideas of choreo, transitions and music editing, just that Javi have yet to get the ability to perform everything with quality and fulfill the vision of his team. as simple as stretching your legs. if it were given to a blade master, say, Patrick, program may feel better.
I guess his team's strategy is to push him to the limit in PCS, especially in the transition category since Javi dont have the best SS to begin with. I think it is a huge challenge for him, and dont know if he can pull it off within this season, but after this season, just watch out for him, if he keep up his hard work.

Machida's transition and choreo I think is perfect for his music, actually he just need to get little better in pacing and perform it a little better, dont put too much pressure on him therefore, wont that over-the-top, thus overkill.

Yuzuru's LP is a program designed to assure his tech difficulty, but still a good one.

Transition scores or PCS in general, I dont know, maybe judged by reputation only now....
in term of quality vs quantity, I think if Patrick do Javi's LP, it may look less jammed and hectic, because Patrick has better SS and TR combined.
I always think that moves should reflect music, and the number of transitions should not be used to judge PCS. put too much moves with little reference to music (especially when executed with bad quality) is equally bad as empty program that ignored music.

I think Jeff/Yuzuru's SP find the fine balance of skater's tech capacity and music IN.
another one would be Denis/Lori's SP.
this season still have a few big competitions, we may found more perfect balanced performances later on.

 

[ioanna]

For those curious about Machida's meltdown in the FS

Tatsuki Machida has been struggling with a hectic schedule for the last couple of months as he is soon to graduate Kansai University and is studying and writing his dissertation. Trying to fit studying and training into his schedule he hasn’t been getting much sleep and was feeling extremely tired so he decided to withdraw from the GPF. Unfortunately, athletes cannot withdraw due to non-injury reasons so he attended the competition regardless. He sees the GPF failure as a challenge and promises to get back to a better shape in time for the National Championship.

Source

 

[yyyskate]

^^ wow, kudos to Machida, this guy really is slowly grow on me now...

 

[ioanna]

Machida's transition and choreo I think is perfect for his music, actually he just need to get little better in pacing and perform it a little better, dont put too much pressure on him therefore, wont that over-the-top, thus overkill.

I agree with this. I have noticed his choreo looks too packed/disjointed in the second half but that's only because he hasn't quite been able to keep up with it so far this season, he was always getting tired and there's a delay in his movements. I think it will start making more sense once he hits it.

 

[yyyskate]

I agree with this. I have noticed his choreo looks too packed/disjointed in the second half but that's only because he hasn't quite been able to keep up with it so far this season, he was always getting tired and there's a delay in his movements. I think it will start making more sense once he hits it.

that is exactly my feeling of his live performance in SA.

 

[Meoima]

that is exactly my feeling of his live performance in SA.

Maybe that's why I don't feel comfortable watching his SA LP. His GPF LP made more sense with the music IMO But anyways let's wait and see.
I am still very doubtful about this choice of music. It's like, if I want to watch some performance about freedom, solidarity...etc etc... Then maybe synchronized skating? :think:

 

[TuTU9678]

Hm I'm super late in catching the transition discussion... But just wanted to say that making 'too much transitions' look NOT 'too busy' is part of the whole PCS/SS thing for me. Yuzuru/Jeff Buttle's SP step sequence this year shows that. Even yuzuru himself said 'What is this!' about Jeff's step sequence choreo for him (he thought it was too jam packed). But the step sequence turned out absolutely beautiful (really liked the NHK version and GPF version). And this reflects on SS because I don't think a 2012 yuzuru (R&J #1 season) could have pulled it off without looking 'too busy'.

 

[Alba]

Hm I'm super late in catching the transition discussion... But just wanted to say that making 'too much transitions' look NOT 'too busy' is part of the whole PCS/SS thing for me. Yuzuru/Jeff Buttle's SP step sequence this year shows that. Even yuzuru himself said 'What is this!' about Jeff's step sequence choreo for him (he thought it was too jam packed). But the step sequence turned out absolutely beautiful (really liked the NHK version and GPF version). And this reflects on SS because I don't think a 2012 yuzuru (R&J #1 season) could have pulled it off without looking 'too busy'.

Actually we were talking about Javi's LP. Yuzuru's program is not as jam-packed as Javi's, although he got more scores on that. Which only shows, I might be right about it.

 

[unico]

I also think Fernandez and Machida should both simplify their long programs a bit in terms of transitions... If miraculously all three of Fernandez, Machida, and Hanyu went clean, then with the LPs as is Hanyu with his simplified LP would probably deserve the lowest TR mark IMO (might have to rewatch their LPs, but that's my impression over the season). Even though Machida does have a lot of posey sections, he has a lot of transitions out of jumps and Fernandez's program is so jam-packed with little to breathe. The transitions are obviously tiring them out though, making them miss jumps, and overall decreasing the quality of flow, speed, and edges that they have over the ice. It's not only that the transitions are hard, but it obviously looks hard. Chan was a master at effortless and difficult transitions. Honestly, they probably have the reputation to sacrifice a few transitions (like apparently Hanyu did) and still get around the same PCS, or even if the judges do decide to mark them down in TR, their jumps, footwork, and performance would probably be of better quality and make up for it.

 

[Sandpiper]

I just want to mention, regarding Machida: His program is difficult not just because of the transitions, but because of the (thankless) jump layout. He delays the second axel and lutz until way past the halfway mark (lutz is at the very end, in fact). Even in the SP, he does the lutz near the very end. Now, to be fair, he hit both lutzes in SP and LP, after missing a bunch of other stuff. So maybe it's not his program; it's just him having yet another lousy day at GPF.

 

[TuTU9678]

Actually we were talking about Javi's LP. Yuzuru's program is not as jam-packed as Javi's, although he got more scores on that. Which only shows, I might be right about it.

Yup I understood that I was trying to say that Yuzuru's SP was actually jam packed (like Javi's LP) and yet did not look busy because of his skating skills. The transitions he did for both 4T & 3A were just astonishing... (is it just me or does his SS look better in SP than LP? maybe stamina issue)

As much as I'm not a fan of PChiddy, I think if he were to skate to Javi's LP, it probably wouldn't look as 'busy' because of his skating skills. It's good to see Javi try to push his own limits, but I also feel that, just maybe, he doesn't yet have the skating skills required for this LP...

 

[yyyskate]

^^ I agree with all your comments

 

[Alba]

I just want to mention, regarding Machida: His program is difficult not just because of the transitions, but because of the (thankless) jump layout. He delays the second axel and lutz until way past the halfway mark (lutz is at the very end, in fact). Even in the SP, he does the lutz near the very end. Now, to be fair, he hit both lutzes in SP and LP, after missing a bunch of other stuff. So maybe it's not his program; it's just him having yet another lousy day at GPF.

I actually agree with you on Machida. I don't think the problems are the transitions.
For me he hasn't matched the music yet. That music it's way to big, IMO.

Yup I understood that I was trying to say that Yuzuru's SP was actually jam packed (like Javi's LP) and yet did not look busy because of his skating skills. The transitions he did for both 4T & 3A were just astonishing... (is it just me or does his SS look better in SP than LP? maybe stamina issue)

I don't know about that. Could be very well stamina though, and of course the LP is more difficult because it does have more jumps, and in second half.
I adore that SP. I think i's because of the choreo.

As much as I'm not a fan of PChiddy, I think if he were to skate to Javi's LP, it probably wouldn't look as 'busy' because of his skating skills. It's good to see Javi try to push his own limits, but I also feel that, just maybe, he doesn't yet have the skating skills required for this LP...

I fully agree about Chan.
Indeed I fully agree with what shingalas wrote above also.