2015-16 Grand Prix Final Free Dance

[Mrs. P]

Like a lot of people here, I'm really, really disappointed in the judging. The Shibs were underscored again relative to their competitors, IMO.

Can someone explain to me how their combination spin, which has been judged at a level 4 all season, was suddenly downgraded to a level 3? I compared it to the one they did at NHK and it was identical, right down to the number of revolutions in each position. They lost a point in base value because of it.

I saw the error -- it looked like Alex pulled out of the spin slightly early. I'd imagine that was where the sickness would probably have been at its ugliest.

Unfortunately, slightly early can mean one level 1 down.

 

[matcha]

I agree with this. C/B, to me, are the epitome of a Spilband team even more so than Belbin/Agosto and Davis/White. They are pure athleticism over art. They have the athleticism and power to do really flashy things. I just think they use the same vanilla expressions they had for An American in Paris and Les Miserables (two easily accessible pieces of music) and a lot of their choreography for Evan is repeatedly raising his arm to selective crescendos of music. I find the choreography to be very cookie cutter as well but the choreography is just a template of presenting elements in the best way possible for the judges under COP. Choreography itself is just there to supplement the element showcase. That said, Madison's flashy style over substance and athletic ways of going in and out of lifts is very impressive, like the second to last lift. I applauded that move.

So. much. arm waving.

From both of them, tbh. \watching their skate it distracted me so much, like please, do something else with your arms, for the love of god!

 

[BlackPack]

Like a lot of people here, I'm really, really disappointed in the judging. The Shibs were underscored again relative to their competitors, IMO.

Can someone explain to me how their combination spin, which has been judged at a level 4 all season, was suddenly downgraded to a level 3? I compared it to the one they did at NHK and it was identical, right down to the number of revolutions in each position. They lost a point in base value because of it.

There have been many interesting discussions regarding the Shibs' lack of success. There was a long thread about this last year; I can't find it.

While I don't necessarily think brother and sister teams are a hindrance (many pairs teams and the Duchesnays did phenomenally well), it really may be the case with the Shibs.

Their appearance seems refreshing and innocent. It's just hard for them to have the right look in portraying a sophisticated adult man and woman, even though they're in the 20s. The Duchesnays could still convey tension, even if their programs weren't necessarily about a romance.

Technically and artistically, the Shibs are doing their best and deserve better. Their child-like looks may just cause judges to unconsciously not take them as seriously as other couples. It has been said life is fair because it's unfair to everyone.

 

[NoNameFace]

I think the scores for nationals are already fixed C&B will finish ahead of the shibs no matter how they skate or the shibs skate.

same will be at Boston's Worlds in March - set up before SD, set up after SD with comfortable cushion and drag on 1st after FD.

It makes me sick for other top duos, especially Shibutanis who - opposite to Chock/Bates - had showed so far a tremendous development in their skating this season in every area: sharper technique, better programs, more character...

 

[Mathman]

Melissa Gregory was almost as chatty as Tanith. But with a few made-up words and questionable grammar. Sorry to be so picky.

I was just glad to see Melissa get a chance at a commentating gig. I always liked her and Petukhov as skaters. I thought she did pretty well at having something nice to say about each couple.

 

[slider11]

I see the two skates much differently. Chock and Bates' classical and complicated performance was technically intricate and overall well skated. But as you use one-note with the Shibs, I see Chock and Bates as pleasant but forgettable. I appreciate the nuances in this classical piece but I don't feel that distinction when I watch them skate. Madison is a beautiful woman with a beautiful smile but I need more than that to feel the expression of the the dance. Chock and Bates are an excellent team but I don't see this FD as memorable or remarkable. Even if Madison had not had the mistake in the twizzles (how does that qualify for a positive GOE for 2 of the judges?), I don't see it earning an additional 5+ points to overtake Weaver and Poje in this competition. I would agree that the Shibs FD is much different and it is comparing two very different genres of music. But, what Maia and Alex are able to do is to incorporate technically complicated moves with a rising passion and expression. It's more than the music, it's the artistic impression that the dance creates. The Shibs FD does create memorable moments and takes the audience to a "fix you" place. Having said this, the Shibs have some work to do in getting their patterns and spin to a level 4, also more speed. Nationals should be very interesting as I see both teams working very hard to polish their piece. Both are remarkable champions. This year I'm drawn to the Shibs.

Interesting! Frankly, you can't really compare the two skates. One_ the Shibs is what you would describe as 'a feel good skate' _ beautiful but kind of one-note. It's like having your comfort food. C/B's in a different league _ more depth and substance - the music is definitely challenging, the choreography _ more complex and nuanced. Coldplay vs Rachmaninoff: I love this Coldplay music _ a piece that one can choreograph to easily (just watch SYTYCD _ you've seen one too many); Rachmaninoff _ a different story - more complex and challenging - was used a few times in Singles and Pairs, but competitively, never in Ice-dance and have not seen a modern dance set to it.

I'd like Ice-dancers to challenge themselves _ musically and technically. Dance is poetry in motion _ not just about beautiful movements, it's about story-telling, a telling expression of a journey, a commentary of sort ... of life, etc. If Madison didn't have that glaring twizzle mistake, the result would be probably different. I should also add that considering this was practically a new version, it was delivered superbly _ a testament to their superb skating skills.

 

[Astrid56]

I see the two skates much differently. Chock and Bates' classical and complicated performance was technically intricate and overall well skated. But as you use one-note with the Shibs, I see Chock and Bates as pleasant but forgettable. I appreciate the nuances in this classical piece but I don't feel that distinction when I watch them skate. Madison is a beautiful woman with a beautiful smile but I need more than that to feel the expression of the the dance. Chock and Bates are an excellent team but I don't see this FD as memorable or remarkable. Even if Madison had not had the mistake in the twizzles (how does that qualify for a positive GOE for 2 of the judges?), I don't see it earning an additional 5+ points to overtake Weaver and Poje in this competition. I would agree that the Shibs FD is much different and it is comparing two very different genres of music. But, what Maia and Alex are able to do is to incorporate technically complicated moves with a rising passion and expression. It's more than the music, it's the artistic impression that the dance creates. The Shibs FD does create memorable moments and takes the audience to a "fix you" place. Having said this, the Shibs have some work to do in getting their patterns and spin to a level 4, also more speed. Nationals should be very interesting as I see both teams working very hard to polish their piece. Both are remarkable champions. This year I'm drawn to the Shibs.

It's a matter of taste, I suppose. Let's just agree to disagree!

 

[slider11]

Agreed! And it's wonderful to have so many talented dancers. I do disagree with those that think this season is bland. I see 5-6 teams who have potential for the podium. If anything, this GPF is pulling the differences in the top teams even tighter. If Papadakis and Cizeron are able to return to Worlds this will be quite the competition!

It's a matter of taste, I suppose. Let's just agree to disagree!

 

[Giselle]

Finally got a chance to see Madison & Zach's FD. I was expecting much worse tbh.
The problem is that they could not get back in synch with the music after the fall. But Madison really fought dureing the program, like I've ever seen her before. I hope this won't affect their confidence too much. The twizzles looked better than ever!

 

[caitie]

Having said this, the Shibs have some work to do in getting their patterns and spin to a level 4, also more speed.

Agree with the speed and their patterns, but this is the first time all season they got a Level 3 on their spin. I think it was a fluke mistake that wouldn't have happened if Alex hadn't been so sick.

Weaver and Poje, however, really need to get their act together re: their lifts. They have had six lifts called level 3 over four events. If you don't count Finlandia (the first event is kind of a test run to see if the tech panels agree that their lifts have the proper features to qualify as Level 4) they have still had at least one level 3 lift at every event. Every other team at the GPF has had perfect lift levels at all of their events, with the exception of Hubbell and Donohue who had a lift called Level 1 at their pre-season Challenger event, but they fixed the problem. Get it together, DSC!

 

[Dots]

The Shibutanis are slotted to finished as high as 3rd and are the direct competition for Cappellini/Lanotte's bronze. I don't get the feeling C/L will score as high once we get to American soil. If the world championships were taking place in Europe, then I would say it's game over for the Shibutanis.

If the USFSA were smart, they would score the Shibutanis so close to Chock/Bates, with a 110+ score for both couples, to give the impression that both of their star teams are on the cusp of greatness. It might just give the judges enough incentive to finally put the Shibutanis on top of Capellini/Lanotte or an untested Papadakis/Cizeron.

If the judging panel is majority European, the Shibutanis need not come. An all North American podium happened once and that's probably the last time we were going to see it.

I imagine if Papadakis/Cizeron are good, Cappellini/Lanote will be dumped, maybe even behind the Shibutanis.

 

[Giselle]

Papadakis/Cizeron's FD seems to be in the same vein as W/P and S/S this year.
I think that C/L might actually benefit from having an "upbeat" FD.

 

[Marta25]

The Shibutanis are slotted to finished as high as 3rd and are the direct competition for Cappellini/Lanotte's bronze. I don't get the feeling C/L will score as high once we get to American soil. If the world championships were taking place in Europe, then I would say it's game over for the Shibutanis.

If the USFSA were smart, they would score the Shibutanis so close to Chock/Bates, with a 110+ score for both couples, to give the impression that both of their star teams are on the cusp of greatness. It might just give the judges enough incentive to finally put the Shibutanis on top of Capellini/Lanotte or an untested Papadakis/Cizeron.

If the judging panel is majority European, the Shibutanis need not come. An all North American podium happened once and that's probably the last time we were going to see it.

I imagine if Papadakis/Cizeron are good, Cappellini/Lanote will be dumped, maybe even behind the Shibutanis.

The judges have already been drawn for Worlds 2016: BLR CHN FIN FRA GER GBR ITA RUS SVK ESP TUR UKR USA

It`s very European heavy with only two judges (USA and CHN) outside of Europe. P/C, C/L and whoever is Russia`s #1 will have judges on the panel. The only top team without a judge are actually W/P. Still, it has to be considered that Worlds are in the US, so who knows what will happen, but it`s probably going to be difficult to get both C/B and S/S on the podium, so Nationals and 4CC will be very important for both C/B and S/S. Right now, C/B seem to have a slight advantage, but S/S have never been this close to them as here in Barcelona.

 

[humbaba]

I do disagree with those that think this season is bland. I see 5-6 teams who have potential for the podium.

Me too! The past few years Voir and Marlie had the top two spots locked down and only the bronze was up for grabs. It's great to see so many teams with a legitimate shot at the podium this year.

 

[Mathman]

I think that C/L might actually benefit from having an "upbeat" FD.

I agree. Everyone else looks like they're going to a funeral. Oh, the soulfulness of it all!

Will someone please run over Anna Karenina with a train?

 

[Cleo]

Posted by Alex Shibutani on his and Maia's Facebook page:

"No sleep the night before the FD. I received IV fluid during the day and didn't do a lift, spin, or twizzle on practice or warmup.

I've never been so sick in my life, but when I heard our music and felt Maia by my side, I knew we could do it.

Maia is so strong and I'm grateful that I'm able to skate with her every day.

We will not be skating in the exhibition today so I can rest and recover. I'm sorry we won't be able to perform for you one more time.

Thank you for all of the support. We love skating in Barcelona and I'll never forget standing at center ice with the crowd on its feet.

Alex"

 

[slider11]

Wow! Very interesting -the configuration of the judges! I know it's naive to think that the judges' nationalities and the location of the competition do not matter. I know it does. BUT, I think the GpFs showed that, overall, there is some movement towards judging what they see, not where they are or by nationality. I know there were some sad faces when the Shibs did not make the podium after that inspiring FD. But, overall, I can live with the podium and there is definite movement in how the judges are seeing the Shibs. US Nationals will be very interesting! And if Papdakis and Cizeron return to Worlds along with some combination of Russian teams - who will have the upper hand? I think dance is wide open this year! QUOTE=Marta25;1320413]The judges have already been drawn for Worlds 2016: BLR CHN FIN FRA GER GBR ITA RUS SVK ESP TUR UKR USA

It`s very European heavy with only two judges (USA and CHN) outside of Europe. P/C, C/L and whoever is Russia`s #1 will have judges on the panel. The only top team without a judge are actually W/P. Still, it has to be considered that Worlds are in the US, so who knows what will happen, but it`s probably going to be difficult to get both C/B and S/S on the podium, so Nationals and 4CC will be very important for both C/B and S/S. Right now, C/B seem to have a slight advantage, but S/S have never been this close to them as here in Barcelona.[/QUOTE]

 

[robredo40]

how is it fair that for the second straight year W&P will not have a canadian judge at worlds, although i imagine that Marie Bowness a Canadian will probably be the tech specialist again.

 

[blancanieves]

Finally got a chance to see Madison & Zach's FD. I was expecting much worse tbh.
The problem is that they could not get back in synch with the music after the fall. But Madison really fought dureing the program, like I've ever seen her before. I hope this won't affect their confidence too much. The twizzles looked better than ever!

Yes, they started the circular step sequence early. During the diag step seq they showed more animation/energy than at NHK, which matches the music better, but I don't get the "menacing" looks from Madison. Is she portraying anger, or intensity that is reading like anger? I think the angel's expressions need to be thought out a little bit better.

 

[whatif]

These days, Technical Panel is more important, in dance.