- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
Wow. I'm glad other commentators aren't as homophobic.
2015-16 Grand Prix Final Pairs SP
- Thread starter dorispulaski
- Start date
Wow. I'm glad other commentators aren't as homophobic.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2015
I was saying that there were two problems, not only the PCS. Thanks for the kind reminder anyway.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2015
Im in 2 minds about it
I mean wether pairs/dance should really show romantic chem
Imo its not required
I admire Shibs & they have none.
On the other hand there is Chock/Bates who could turn even Rachmaninov sexual
Sometimes romantic/sexual innuendo in FS is prohibited!
I mean wether pairs/dance should really show romantic chem
Imo its not required
I admire Shibs & they have none.
On the other hand there is Chock/Bates who could turn even Rachmaninov sexual
Sometimes romantic/sexual innuendo in FS is prohibited!
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Same for me, but S/K and Juliane Charlie reversed. The second tier Canadians should get the highest mark for P/E, tie with that cheesy program K/S were selling. I mean, it's like Tillamook cheddar cheese, but they sell it like it's Parmigiano Reggiano straight from Italy.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2010
Well, finally, D/R's PCS started go down in relation to the top tier contenders. Though the gap in every category of PCS between D/R and two Russian teams is so obvious you can see it from space. Should have been a whole 4-5 points lower. I also think on this occasion, their PCS should below both Yu/Jin and especially S/B. In fact, as of right now, S/B is the top Canadian team, IMO.
They better land those lutzes tomorrow if they even want to medal.
They better land those lutzes tomorrow if they even want to medal.
ughhhhhh
A fantastic reaction from the crowd for Yuko & Sasha and really well deserved. Yuko seems to really shine in this programme, she was even smiling at one stage. From her interview a few months I thought she didn't like/enjoy the programme but you wouldn't think that from the way they have performed it all season. The music may be cheesy but they make it work, a superb emotional performance, the way they hit the highs of the music. Brilliant.
Once Stolbova/Klimov took to the ice you could clearly see the jump in quality from the previous couples. The music really suits her, good to see them getting back to their best. I think their programmes are very complete, I like the intensity of their free and sultriness of the short.
D/R were gifted third. I can understand that they have a higher base value that the other couples and that gives them something of a buffer on the TES side if they have errors. But on the PCS side their is no way they were just behind the two Russians and 3 points ahead of S/B. The performance was tense, cautious and sloppy in places. I would have them under 70.
S/B were robbed, they should be third. It was a fantastic performance full of attack, character and a joy of skating. They have really stepped up to another level this year. Hopefully they skate a good free. I really enjoy Yu/Jin but it was not their best. The Americans have some great elements but they are not my favourite, I preferred them more a few years ago. Disappointing from P/Z but she need to sort our her jumps issue but I do like their style.
Roll on Manfred, hopefully Yuko & Sasha blow everyone away tomorrow.
Once Stolbova/Klimov took to the ice you could clearly see the jump in quality from the previous couples. The music really suits her, good to see them getting back to their best. I think their programmes are very complete, I like the intensity of their free and sultriness of the short.
D/R were gifted third. I can understand that they have a higher base value that the other couples and that gives them something of a buffer on the TES side if they have errors. But on the PCS side their is no way they were just behind the two Russians and 3 points ahead of S/B. The performance was tense, cautious and sloppy in places. I would have them under 70.
S/B were robbed, they should be third. It was a fantastic performance full of attack, character and a joy of skating. They have really stepped up to another level this year. Hopefully they skate a good free. I really enjoy Yu/Jin but it was not their best. The Americans have some great elements but they are not my favourite, I preferred them more a few years ago. Disappointing from P/Z but she need to sort our her jumps issue but I do like their style.
Roll on Manfred, hopefully Yuko & Sasha blow everyone away tomorrow.
My take on the pairs competition
To me, the SP of the pairs was very entertaining as I felt that each pair could learn something from the others and as far as the scores go, I felt they were justified and correct, even if I would like to see Julianne and Charlie a bit closer to 2 & 3. Here is a little recap of what I feel made the difference today. I will only check the first four, with a strong focus on the Canadian 2 and Russian 1, as I sadly do not have more time.
1. Stolbova & Klimov
As mentioned, Nina is involved and you just see this at every second of their program. Let´s start with the first few seconds shall we? She puts her spell on him, he lifts her up and softly puts her on the ice and then she gets up again, all of this with smooth transitions, it looks flawless and effortless. It is a choreographic element, that instantly tells everyone in the crowd what their performance is all about and it looks brilliant if I may add. It is a very graceful start and look at their arms and hands, it´s so typical Russian. There is no inch of their body not working and presenting - at least for me, something that other nations do not have yet, but it adds so much in regards of artistry.
Also visible is this at the DS, look at what she is doing during that element, look at her entry and how he presents her - this is world class and absolutely in touch with the theme of their music. It has so much elegance, maybe even some tad of arrogance, but exactly this is what their program is all about and they sell it well.
I talked about transitions and being smooth at the start and just look at their Flip throw. Sure, you can argue it is "only" a Flip, but it was absolutely integrated into the program. There was no gap, no long preparation, nothing telegraphed, it was just executed as it would be nothing. It was an element without any preparation and this must be rewarded, in GOE - but also and in PCs. The jump elements in FS are quite often an interruption, as many skaters or pairs for that matter, prepare these elements visually to the crowd and this needs to be punished much higher than it currently is, in my opinion at least and today - it was punished.
Last but not least, look at the moments when he holds her hand, they very seldom have to "skate" to each other to make contact, it is almost like they skate into these holds automatically, it is a blind understanding and effortless skating with great SS.
To me, it is understandable that they scored highest and the difference would probably be higher if the difficulty level / execution of side by side and twist would be higher. Do not get me wrong, they had one error and I understand those who might not feel the "love" here, but from a FS aspect, I feel it was rightfully judged.
2. Yuko & Sasha
They always put incredible much into their programs, they feel the music and each other incredible well and I definitely disagree with the "grandma & grandpa" comment, they look fresh and young and are very important to have around. As for the program, they did kind of "announce" or better put telegraph some of the elements, the TR are not as strong as with the Russian leaders, then again, they have the personality, they skate for and with each other, great execution bar the toe where she looked a bit wild in the air, but then still landed it just fine. They skate for the heart and with the crowd, a wonderful couple on the ice - just very special as I feel.
3. Meagan and Eric
She is a great fighter, as seen on the Lutz, god was she low there, yet put on the ice, big spirit! I also enjoyed how they went into the side by side element, it really looked nicely choreographed with the turn, their hands coming down - so nicely backed up with the vocal - very emotional! The Canadians were also the only pair of the evening, who had throw lutz and lift at the end and believe me, this is tough for pairs, especially the man. While she fell, it was not really that much of an interruption, as they instantly went on to the lift, great fighting spirit and important for the overall impression, make the fall look like it was not there, get it out of the judges heads quickly, well played!
I fully understand if some people feel they should not be on three, but if we look at the overall difficulty of their program, then we just have to accept that they were not worse - just the execution let them down today and yes, the PC´s are not as strong as with both Russian pairs and even to some degree with Julianne & Charlie.
Overall, I feel it is ok to put them on three, but as said - the gap should be smaller to Canada 2. One and two were out of reach with todays performance, good judging there.
4. Julianne & Charlie
I am very proud of these two. First of all, because they so made my day last time when I met them, they are incredible fun and friendly, a very positive couple which really puts a smile on your face, every time they skate and they did so again at the GP Final. I so love how they use the music for their elements. You can see this greatly at the throw triple Lutz, but also their steps and turns, especially the hands and arms during the various phrases, it is all presented.
They are perfectly aligned to each other and on beat. It is wonderfully choreographed and has a very high level of interpretation, a high tone in the music and the arms go up or the exit of the DS, right with the music or when she came out from behind his back at the end, lovely use of the vocal again - it´s a joy to see how musical they are. For me they also had the best Twist today, he caught her clean, she was high in the air, softly put on the ice, very nice.
Another aspect is how they relate to each other. While you see that Charlie cares about his Julianne, you at no time feel like he is in her shadow or not as present as she is. To me, he really is a pairs skater how I want to see them and for me, he was the best guy on the ice today. He is light on his feet, can absolutely work with Julianne´s bubbling personality and the tiny dance elements. At no time you have the feeling it is hard for him or her - a fantastic skate by the Canadians and for me, they combine, naughty elements with grace, difficulty with fun and always present to the crowd - no other couple is able to do this yet, especially not at the competition here.
Now you might wonder, if they were so good, why not higher? Well, the truth can be found in the detail I think. Compared to the second Canadians, they did not have a triple throw and lift at the end, but they also visually "prepare" their elements, so that you have a small pause in the programs, similar to Yuko and Sasha. This is especially visible if you compare them to the current leaders and they also lost some speed at the end and have a "weaker" DS.
Still, as I said - for me the best pair visually on the ice. Two skaters who enjoy each others company and who want to present their programs to the crowd. I see them win many medals in future and it surely is a bit sassy, to "complain" after their most likely best skate ever, but I tried to show that it was quite ok, score-wise.
Still, I would had liked a higher INT score, as I felt that nobody did as good as them in that depart.
I felt very sorry for Alexa and Chris, they are such a nice pair.
To me, the SP of the pairs was very entertaining as I felt that each pair could learn something from the others and as far as the scores go, I felt they were justified and correct, even if I would like to see Julianne and Charlie a bit closer to 2 & 3. Here is a little recap of what I feel made the difference today. I will only check the first four, with a strong focus on the Canadian 2 and Russian 1, as I sadly do not have more time.
1. Stolbova & Klimov
As mentioned, Nina is involved and you just see this at every second of their program. Let´s start with the first few seconds shall we? She puts her spell on him, he lifts her up and softly puts her on the ice and then she gets up again, all of this with smooth transitions, it looks flawless and effortless. It is a choreographic element, that instantly tells everyone in the crowd what their performance is all about and it looks brilliant if I may add. It is a very graceful start and look at their arms and hands, it´s so typical Russian. There is no inch of their body not working and presenting - at least for me, something that other nations do not have yet, but it adds so much in regards of artistry.
Also visible is this at the DS, look at what she is doing during that element, look at her entry and how he presents her - this is world class and absolutely in touch with the theme of their music. It has so much elegance, maybe even some tad of arrogance, but exactly this is what their program is all about and they sell it well.
I talked about transitions and being smooth at the start and just look at their Flip throw. Sure, you can argue it is "only" a Flip, but it was absolutely integrated into the program. There was no gap, no long preparation, nothing telegraphed, it was just executed as it would be nothing. It was an element without any preparation and this must be rewarded, in GOE - but also and in PCs. The jump elements in FS are quite often an interruption, as many skaters or pairs for that matter, prepare these elements visually to the crowd and this needs to be punished much higher than it currently is, in my opinion at least and today - it was punished.
Last but not least, look at the moments when he holds her hand, they very seldom have to "skate" to each other to make contact, it is almost like they skate into these holds automatically, it is a blind understanding and effortless skating with great SS.
To me, it is understandable that they scored highest and the difference would probably be higher if the difficulty level / execution of side by side and twist would be higher. Do not get me wrong, they had one error and I understand those who might not feel the "love" here, but from a FS aspect, I feel it was rightfully judged.
2. Yuko & Sasha
They always put incredible much into their programs, they feel the music and each other incredible well and I definitely disagree with the "grandma & grandpa" comment, they look fresh and young and are very important to have around. As for the program, they did kind of "announce" or better put telegraph some of the elements, the TR are not as strong as with the Russian leaders, then again, they have the personality, they skate for and with each other, great execution bar the toe where she looked a bit wild in the air, but then still landed it just fine. They skate for the heart and with the crowd, a wonderful couple on the ice - just very special as I feel.
3. Meagan and Eric
She is a great fighter, as seen on the Lutz, god was she low there, yet put on the ice, big spirit! I also enjoyed how they went into the side by side element, it really looked nicely choreographed with the turn, their hands coming down - so nicely backed up with the vocal - very emotional! The Canadians were also the only pair of the evening, who had throw lutz and lift at the end and believe me, this is tough for pairs, especially the man. While she fell, it was not really that much of an interruption, as they instantly went on to the lift, great fighting spirit and important for the overall impression, make the fall look like it was not there, get it out of the judges heads quickly, well played!
I fully understand if some people feel they should not be on three, but if we look at the overall difficulty of their program, then we just have to accept that they were not worse - just the execution let them down today and yes, the PC´s are not as strong as with both Russian pairs and even to some degree with Julianne & Charlie.
Overall, I feel it is ok to put them on three, but as said - the gap should be smaller to Canada 2. One and two were out of reach with todays performance, good judging there.
4. Julianne & Charlie
I am very proud of these two. First of all, because they so made my day last time when I met them, they are incredible fun and friendly, a very positive couple which really puts a smile on your face, every time they skate and they did so again at the GP Final. I so love how they use the music for their elements. You can see this greatly at the throw triple Lutz, but also their steps and turns, especially the hands and arms during the various phrases, it is all presented.
They are perfectly aligned to each other and on beat. It is wonderfully choreographed and has a very high level of interpretation, a high tone in the music and the arms go up or the exit of the DS, right with the music or when she came out from behind his back at the end, lovely use of the vocal again - it´s a joy to see how musical they are. For me they also had the best Twist today, he caught her clean, she was high in the air, softly put on the ice, very nice.
Another aspect is how they relate to each other. While you see that Charlie cares about his Julianne, you at no time feel like he is in her shadow or not as present as she is. To me, he really is a pairs skater how I want to see them and for me, he was the best guy on the ice today. He is light on his feet, can absolutely work with Julianne´s bubbling personality and the tiny dance elements. At no time you have the feeling it is hard for him or her - a fantastic skate by the Canadians and for me, they combine, naughty elements with grace, difficulty with fun and always present to the crowd - no other couple is able to do this yet, especially not at the competition here.
Now you might wonder, if they were so good, why not higher? Well, the truth can be found in the detail I think. Compared to the second Canadians, they did not have a triple throw and lift at the end, but they also visually "prepare" their elements, so that you have a small pause in the programs, similar to Yuko and Sasha. This is especially visible if you compare them to the current leaders and they also lost some speed at the end and have a "weaker" DS.
Still, as I said - for me the best pair visually on the ice. Two skaters who enjoy each others company and who want to present their programs to the crowd. I see them win many medals in future and it surely is a bit sassy, to "complain" after their most likely best skate ever, but I tried to show that it was quite ok, score-wise.
Still, I would had liked a higher INT score, as I felt that nobody did as good as them in that depart.
I felt very sorry for Alexa and Chris, they are such a nice pair.
In my opinion, this still placed too high. I would have placed the other Canadians ahead of them.
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
Cmon guy... Be realistic, They're still very much in the hunt for the win here even if they make a mistake
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
If S/K had not made a mistake during SBS I would not even think of any injustice because they skate better than the others: the speed, the power, the synchro. But as it turned out I am with those who say that K/S wuzrobbed. They should be at least at par.
D/R were uninspiring. The key is that Radford is just an uninspiring skater - no harmony with Duhamel whatsoever. As for their higher base value, I think judges were generous to them. Their twist is tiny, yet got the higher base value than that of the Russians. And their pcs is too high vs. the Russians - S/K and K/S are just better pair skaters.
The second Canadian team was fun.
Reminds me of a cliche popular here: "missing V/T and S/S"
D/R were uninspiring. The key is that Radford is just an uninspiring skater - no harmony with Duhamel whatsoever. As for their higher base value, I think judges were generous to them. Their twist is tiny, yet got the higher base value than that of the Russians. And their pcs is too high vs. the Russians - S/K and K/S are just better pair skaters.
The second Canadian team was fun.
Reminds me of a cliche popular here: "missing V/T and S/S"
While I don't argue that D and R have inferior skating skills then some competitors, I don't think it's fair to say should be all around lower in all areas of the PCS. They do in fact have difficult transitions in and out of their elements. Their side by spins are often the best and they have good choreography and I think their IN is just as good as the other teams. And I usually think their performance and execution is very good and on par with top teams.
The problem I see in general is that the judges need to start making an effort is on the Performance and Execution mark on the day.
As for not skating as a pair/team, I don't accept that at all, as it seems merely a criticism of them not skating romantically. I think they have a lovely fraternal connection, especially in the free. They relate to each other differently, but that doesn't mean there is no connection at all. And they connect to the music.
Stolbova and Klimox are pretty robotic and disconnected to me. No matter how much I think they are good skaters.
Having said that I think they deserve third place. I love Seguin and Bilodeau but they don't have remotely the technical content, and I don't think they have all the areas in PCS as strongly as D and R. But I love them and hope for a great future for them for Canada
The problem I see in general is that the judges need to start making an effort is on the Performance and Execution mark on the day.
As for not skating as a pair/team, I don't accept that at all, as it seems merely a criticism of them not skating romantically. I think they have a lovely fraternal connection, especially in the free. They relate to each other differently, but that doesn't mean there is no connection at all. And they connect to the music.
Stolbova and Klimox are pretty robotic and disconnected to me. No matter how much I think they are good skaters.
Having said that I think they deserve third place. I love Seguin and Bilodeau but they don't have remotely the technical content, and I don't think they have all the areas in PCS as strongly as D and R. But I love them and hope for a great future for them for Canada
I love to watch Kavaguti and Smirnov skate. There is such a security to Smirnov as the male partner. He lifts her and performs death spirals with such confidence and stability. Their jumps are unpredictable but there is a deliberate but stylish nature to their transitions that I really like. Can't wait for the Manfred Symphony !
Juliane/Charlie had the highest TES in this competition. They only lost levels in the death spiral. Everything else was level 4, including the 3 Tw. They got less GOE than the other pairs ahead. I found it weird that S/K SBS jumps got positive GOE. That was not a jump to reward. It was not bad, but it was out of sync, and not a perfect landing for Ksenia...common, judges are you still smoking pot?
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2009
Come on guys, Ksenia "put on spell" on them!
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2010
One judge gave +2 for S/K's 3T
Their crushing 3Tw should has lower GOE too. I like their skating skills, but their elements were not good today, including the throw. Still I have no problem they placed first. S/K and K/S were close in the SP. I think the placement is about right, but I feel Y/J's PCS were too low. Good competition.
Their crushing 3Tw should has lower GOE too. I like their skating skills, but their elements were not good today, including the throw. Still I have no problem they placed first. S/K and K/S were close in the SP. I think the placement is about right, but I feel Y/J's PCS were too low. Good competition.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Seguin/Bilodeau were my favorites in the SP...by a long way. I look forward to seeing what they can do in the LP and in the future. I think they may be the pair to truly make me interested in IJS pairs skating in the post Shen/Zhao era.
Since she's shown she can't really clean up her execution, he needs to make himself sloppier to have better harmony with her.
Since she's shown she can't really clean up her execution, he needs to make himself sloppier to have better harmony with her.
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