2015-16 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[mrrice]

But the point is that no matter how well Nathan does at nationals, he's not a "world beater" either and additionally completely unproven against the non-american senior men. He's got the difficulty, but there are a lot of other points that are still lacking (polish, speed, power, audience connection, transitions,...) - again, understandably due to his age, but it's not the age per se that should hold him back. It's the fact that he's simple not as good a skater as IMO enough of the other american senior men are (Aaron, Rippon, Hochstein and Miner for example).

Completely true. Not only do I prefer those you mentioned. I have a feeling that Alexander Johnson is going to have the skates of his life. Didn't Ricky come from Juniors when he won the Silver in 2011? I think the US Men are deep enough that Nathan should (Regardless of how he places) go to Junior Worlds.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I don't really buy into the notion that skating at the junior level will somehow be more beneficial. It would seem to me that time on ice = experience. In fact if Chen starts at a younger age comparing himself to seniors by the numbers....I'd think that would be as beneficial as anything. YMMV.

 

[mrrice]

I don't really into the notion that skating at the junior level will somehow be more beneficial. It would seem to me that time on ice = experience. In fact if Chen starts at a younger comparing himself to seniors by the numbers....id think that would be as beneficial as anything. YMMV.

Here's my feeling. I don't understand why some people don't think being Junior World Champion is a huge deal. Look at Evgenia Medvedeva, she is a big star and she was Junior World Champion. I don't like the thought of Juniors skipping their Worlds unless they've already won it. After that, they are clearly ready to move up to the Senior Lever regardless of their age. Sarah Hughes comes to mind. She won at a young age and was competing as a Senior when she was 14 or 15. How old was Michelle when she won?

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Here's my feeling. I don't understand why some people don't think being Junior World Champion is a huge deal. Look at Evgenia Medvedeva, she is a big star and she was Junior World Champion. I don't like the thought of Juniors skipping their Worlds unless they've already won it. After that, they are clearly ready to move up to the Senior Lever regardless of their age. Sarah Hughes comes to mind. She won at a young age and was competing as a Senior when she was 14 or 15. How old was Michelle when she won?

Shoma Uno is a good, current example for the men - I think the JW title helped him more than any 8th place at senior worlds would have done.

Obviously, a senior world skate will also give Nathan great experience, but the problem is the added pressure that comes with it (keeping the 3 spots and all that stuff). And we have seen examples of skaters not dealing too well with that before.

 

[mrrice]

Shoma Uno is a good, current example for the men - I think the JW title helped him more than any 8th place at senior worlds would have done.

Obviously, a senior world skate will also give Nathan great experience, but the problem is the added pressure that comes with it (keeping the 3 spots and all that stuff). And we have seen examples of skaters not dealing too well with that before.

I hope this makes sense. I think Nathan would really benefit from Being Junior World Champion. IMO, He has ZERO chance of finishing in the top 6 even he has a great skate as this years field is extremely deep. I think it would also do wonders for him "Politically" to going into his first Worlds with the title of Junior World Champion. He is young and doesn't need the added pressure of possibly losing a spot for the US should he skate badly. He needs to go into his first senior Worlds feeling confident and he has never skated against any of these older skaters. If I were coaching him, I'd definitely send him to Junior Worlds.

Canadians, didn't Cynthia Phanuef go to Junior Worlds even though she was the Canadian Senior Champion? I guess I can look it up.

 

[ice coverage]

Mills helps Aaron breathe new life into his skating
Rippon stays mum on strategy; Teens Chen, Zhou plan quad attacks

Posted 1/17/16
by Lynn Rutherford
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/01/17/162145860​

---

... The FB clip quotes Tom as Vincent doing his homework for his senior debut at Nationals so I would imagine we will see a senior, not junior, program.

So happens that the article provides confirmation re Vincent:

"This will be the first time Vincent skates a four-and-a-half minute senior program at an event," Zakrajsek said. "At the Broadmoor Open in June and at sectionals, he had to prepare for the Junior Grand Prix, so we elected not to do a senior program and took the timing deduction. We've worked on conditioning since Barcelona. That extra 30 seconds takes a toll."​

 

[Tavi...]

Here's my feeling. I don't understand why some people don't think being Junior World Champion is a huge deal. Look at Evgenia Medvedeva, she is a big star and she was Junior World Champion. I don't like the thought of Juniors skipping their Worlds unless they've already won it. After that, they are clearly ready to move up to the Senior Lever regardless of their age. Sarah Hughes comes to mind. She won at a young age and was competing as a Senior when she was 14 or 15. How old was Michelle when she won?

Well, Jin Boyang only took silver at the JWC and he's doing okay. And to play Devil's Advocate, how much has Josh's gold at JWC mattered? Not much, I don't think. It's the beauty of his skating that got him noticed last year.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Well, Jin Boyang only took silver at the JWC and he's doing okay. And to play Devil's Advocate, how much has Josh's gold at JWC mattered? Not much, I don't think. It's the beauty of his skating that got him noticed last year.

At the same time Jason "only" getting silver at junior worlds did not hurt him and was enough to give him the momentum needed to make it to the Olympics and place in the top ten.

The Junior Worlds podium can be a launch pad, but it is also a matter of what the skater makes of it. One thing I am fairly certain of is that Nathan will capitalize on it as much as he can or anyone can.

 

[gravy]

Here's my feeling. I don't understand why some people don't think being Junior World Champion is a huge deal. Look at Evgenia Medvedeva, she is a big star and she was Junior World Champion. I don't like the thought of Juniors skipping their Worlds unless they've already won it. After that, they are clearly ready to move up to the Senior Lever regardless of their age. Sarah Hughes comes to mind. She won at a young age and was competing as a Senior when she was 14 or 15. How old was Michelle when she won?

I actually think an American winning JWs is more of a curse. That title didn't help Joshua make the Olympic team. Two titles for Adam Rippon isn't making him a medal threat at the international level. Stephen Carriere wasn't a threat before he retired. Rachel Flatt and Caroline Zhang weren't threats.

Michelle was 13 when she won Junior Worlds in 1994. Shocker: she was the last American lady who won JWs to medal at senior Worlds. Michael Weiss won that year as well and I'm pretty sure he's also the last American man who did that and medaled at senior Worlds.

 

[Tavi...]

At the same time Jason "only" getting silver at junior worlds did not hurt him and was enough to give him the momentum needed to make it to the Olympics and place in the top ten.

The Junior Worlds podium can be a launch pad, but it is also a matter of what the skater makes of it. One thing I am fairly certain of is that Nathan will capitalize on it as much as he can or anyone can.

I have no idea how much Jason's silver impacted him in his first senior year, so you may be right. But he took bronze at JWC in 2012, had also been competing on the JGP for several years, and won JGPF in 2011 (I think). So he had a significant amount of international exposure even before he took silver, just as Nathan does and Shoma and Boyang Jin did.

Frankly, I really don't have a strong opinion as to whether Nathan should go to senior or junior Worlds this year. He seems kind of like Nam was last year - very good tech but still developing in other ways. Last year Nam was able to place well, but it may be tougher for Nathan to do the same this year.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt it how the men place in 2017 that determines how many we send to the Olympics in 2018? So I really think who goes to Worlds next year is more important than who goes this year. Of course for the skaters themselves it matters if they're chosen this year!

ETA I'm totally shocked that I've written 1000 posts here.

 

[StitchMonkey]

2017 is when the Olympic spots are determined. However it is nice to have spare skater who can do well so keeping three spots this year means that they have to keep three spots next year rather than earn three spots.

 

[Tavi...]

2017 is when the Olympic spots are determined. However it is nice to have spare skater who can do well so keeping three spots this year means that they have to keep three spots next year rather than earn three spots.

Oh yes I agree keeping 3 this year would be great.

I confess just bummed many of my favorites are out injured.

ETA: missing Ricky? Watch these:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nyAwRr5vCx8

He skates second in this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ap3WplI1qg

 

[Hyena]

I don't mind the idea of Nathan going to both junior and senior Worlds. He's been one of our most consistent skaters this season and consistency is what the US desperately needs (well, that and quads ). Nam did it in 2014 it didn't seem to really affect him negatively. I do wonder if the quick turn-around between the two competitions would be tough for Nathan. But Raf seems like a smart coach, and I don't think he'll let Nathan do it if he thought it would be bad for him.

My concern with keeping three spots is that I'm a fan of a lot of these guys, and I'd like to see as many as possible go to Olympics and Worlds. If we lose three spots this year it'll be harder to get them back next year, and that means another Olympics to which we can only send two men.

 

[Jammers]

Best case scenario for Nathan is finishing in the the top 3 with Max and Adam. That way he doesn't have it on his shoulders to try to keep those 3 spots since Max and Adam have the experience to do the heavy lifting and Nathan can just get some experience himself.

 

[Sugarpova]

omg no is it true about Nathan's injury!?:sad21::eeking:
noooooooooooo:sad4:

 

[LRK]

omg no is it true about Nathan's injury!:sad21::eeking:
noooooooooooo:sad4:

I heard he is expected to make a full recovery - hoping he will, and in time for both Junior & Senior Worlds'.

 

[LRK]

I'm undecided as to which thread would be the best to post this, but I'm going with this one. There has been some discussion in various threads about Nathan and switching between junior & senior programs. And I was just now reading this article about Daniel Samohin - posted in this thread by Interspectator:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...-Samohain-quot-Quads-easier-than-Triples-quot

And this is Daniel's take on it:

"Despite chopping and changing between senior and junior events this season, Samohin doesn’t feel it has hindered him. In fact, he relishes the challenge of testing himself and even finds that sometimes that it can be trickier to lower the difficulty of his elements rather than vice versa.

“It’s actually not that hard. My long is my long. The only thing that I change is my choreo step sequence. The short is a little bit harder because it is easier for me to do a short with two quads rather than a short programmes with a triple Axel, triple flip and triple Lutz/triple toe loop. When you go for a quad, it’s all about momentum so when I rotate it’s just easier to go for it. For triples, you have to control yourself and you have to understand your body to land correctly. You can overthink triples even though they shouldn’t be that hard. I think it’s mostly the short programmes from senior to junior that is the hardest one. Senior to junior longs are not too bad to go through. I talked with Nathan Chen about that. We both agreed that it is easier to do quads than triples again because of the control and the mentality of ‘Oh, it’s easy! It’s a triple.’ I’m going to go for quads at Europeans. It is a senior competition so I’m able to do that. If we were able to do quads in junior in the short, I would definitely go for it.” "

I thought it was interesting, especially as he mentions having talked with Nathan about it.

 

[Mrs. P]

Unfortunately #TeamInfirmatory has a new member:

http://usfigureskating.org/Story.asp?id=51788&type=media

Chen's rehabilitation will begin in San Diego and is tentatively scheduled to continue at the U.S. Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. Chen is expected to make a full recovery and return to the ice with restrictions in eight to 10 weeks.

Chen, the 2015 Junior Grand Prix Final champion, was expected to compete at the 2016 ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships and the 2016 ISU World Figure Skating Championships. Tomoki Hiwatashi, the 2016 U.S. junior champion, is the first alternate to the World Junior Team and will compete March 14-20 in Debrecen, Hungary. Grant Hochstein, who finished fourth at the 2016 U.S. Championships, will make his World Championships debut March 28-April 3 in Boston.

Silver lining is Grant gets to go to Worlds! It's truly been a breakout year for him. Maybe he'll surprise us...

 

[Layback11]

Unfortunately #TeamInfirmatory has a new member:

http://usfigureskating.org/Story.asp?id=51788&type=media



Great news for Grant! It's truly been a breakout year for him.

ALL OUR SKATERS ARE BREAKING THEMSELVES!!

However, I could not be happier for Grant!

But then I realize our chances at getting three spots left are pretty much dead now, and that is upsetting...

 

[Jammers]

Well that sucks. Nathan is probably going to have to be smart when he gets healthy and not push himself to the brink again. Hopefully Jason, Josh and Nathan all come back next season. Those 3 are present and future of US Men's and would love for that to be the World team next year and the Olympic team.