2015-16 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[qwerty]

A thought re: Adam and the quad lutz. Is it possible that attempting the big element makes his 3 axels feel easier, relatively? I don't have the stats to back this up, but I feel that his consistency on the 3A has improved this season/since he seriously added 4Lz to his programs.

 

[Shani]

Michelle Kwan went to University of Denver as did Condoliza Rice. It's a very good school.

 

[skylark]

A thought re: Adam and the quad lutz. Is it possible that attempting the big element makes his 3 axels feel easier, relatively? I don't have the stats to back this up, but I feel that his consistency on the 3A has improved this season/since he seriously added 4Lz to his programs.

I don't know. But I did wonder if Adam decided to let up the pressure on himself to do the quad lutz because Boyang Jin has competed them so spectacularly now. I seem to recall Adam saying he would keep putting the 4Lutz in his programs because he wanted to be the man who completed it (fully rotated? without a fall?) first.

I wonder if it's just as hard to adjust to his programs without it, as it is to add a quad? At any rate, I feel like this year, Adam has turned a beautiful corner. He still wants to compete, of course; he still wants to skate his best and win; but it seems like I feel a difference in his focus, as though winning has become less important than beautiful skating to him.

Of course, it could be all in my imagination.

 

[karne]

I don't know. But I did wonder if Adam decided to let up the pressure on himself to do the quad lutz because Boyang Jin has competed them so spectacularly now. I seem to recall Adam saying he would keep putting the 4Lutz in his programs because he wanted to be the man who completed it (fully rotated? without a fall?) first.

He would have had a disappointment anyway, as Brandon Mroz has credit for the first 4Lz landed in competition, at NHK in 2011. It was rotated and he didn't fall.

 

[skylark]

He would have had a disappointment anyway, as Brandon Mroz has credit for the first 4Lz landed in competition, at NHK in 2011. It was rotated and he didn't fall.

Of course! You're right. Funny, I just read about Brandon Mroz landing the quad lutz in competition just a week or so ago, but I'd forgotten until you mentioned it.

But I still think Adam said something of that sort last year. Maybe he used some word other than "first." Maybe someone will recognize what I'm talking about and clarify the impression I had. Or not.

ETA: Maybe what I thought he said was something to the effect that (almost) no other men were doing it recently. Or I could be crazy:rofl2::whack:

 

[qwerty]

Of course! You're right. Funny, I just read about Brandon Mroz landing the quad lutz in competition just a week or so ago, but I'd forgotten until you mentioned it.

But I still think Adam said something of that sort last year. Maybe he used some word other than "first." Maybe someone will recognize what I'm talking about and clarify the impression I had. Or not.

ETA: Maybe what I thought he said was something to the effect that (almost) no other men were doing it recently. Or I could be crazy:rofl2::whack:

I don't think you're crazy! It's a special, small group of men who are trying a quad lutz in competition. I'm sure Adam feels empowerment from that fact. I'm glad he's going for it in the LP, it makes sense mathematically even if it gets <<. SP, not so much (but I think he's realizing that).

 

[skylark]

I don't think you're crazy! It's a special, small group of men who are trying a quad lutz in competition. I'm sure Adam feels empowerment from that fact. I'm glad he's going for it in the LP, it makes sense mathematically even if it gets <<. SP, not so much (but I think he's realizing that).

Whew.

Did Adam try for the quad in his LP at Golden Spin? I didn't have time to watch the video yesterday, and now it's gone. Oh, never mind, I can look it up in the event results.

 

[qwerty]

Whew.

Did Adam try for the quad in his LP at Golden Spin? I didn't have time to watch the video yesterday, and now it's gone. Oh, never mind, I can look it up in the event results.

Yes, he did go for it. << and a fall. Still gets 3.9 points, although now I'm realizing that he also gets the point deduction for the fall. So... only 2.9 points, really. Less than a double axel, which is his alternative. Hmm. Hard to say what Adam should do. If he could just get it from << to < it would tip everything solidly in favor of trying the quad lutz each LP. Ultimately he will have to decide what he's going to do.

 

[mrrice]

Some skating medals and a SAT perfect score can get you into Harvard. :yes: So can a cup of coffee and a SAT perfect score.

I LOVE this comment!

 

[Interspectator]

It's been a bit of a slow season for the US men, but I have really enjoyed Grant's performances this year.
What place would you predict for him at Nationals? I think he could go from 5-2nd if he skates like he did at the NHK trophy.
Thoughts?
And how would you rank him against Adam Rippon who had similar results this year?

 

[el henry]

It's been a bit of a slow season for the US men, but I have really enjoyed Grant's performances this year.
What place would you predict for him at Nationals? I think he could go from 5-2nd if he skates like he did at the NHK trophy.
Thoughts?
And how would you rank him against Adam Rippon who had similar results this year?

I will be honest, I like Ross's programs better (his SP is my fav of the season), but Grant has certainly brought it. And is responsible for my 1/8 of a gold medal at NHK predictions So are Grant's programs more difficult/more impressive than Ross? I don't know.

And as time goes on, even though I still say it's four different programs, Adam's LP has really grown on me. I just wait for the UR quad lutz, and then *really* watch.

And although I am thrilled that he is getting some time off, Jason has not been training at all these past two weeks, if Twitter is any indication. And I don't think anyone thinks Josh will be at Nats So what will it be?

I would still rather see the men at US Nats than the men at Worlds, because at Worlds we would not have Jason, Max, Adam, Ross and Grant. Unless we get a five man slot.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I would still rather see the men at US Nats than the men at Worlds, because at Worlds we would not have Jason, Max, Adam, Ross and Grant. Unless we get a five man slot.

At US Nationals there wouldn't be Chan, Hanyu, Fernandez, Ten, Jin, Murakami, Uno, Kovtun, etc. Of course, if seeing 5 US Men is most important to you, then the US Nationals is the only event for you.

 

[Mathman]

At US Nationals there wouldn't be Chan, Hanyu, Fernandez, Ten, Jin, Murakami, Uno, Kovtun, etc. Of course, if seeing 5 US Men is most important to you, then the US Nationals is the only event for you.

To me it is a question of emotional investment. We feel like we "know" our local skaters, in many cases having watched them (often in person) grow up in the sport, and having shared their trials and achievements. The local Detroit clubs always send skaters to Nationals who have no realistic hope of medalling, but I root for them still. Watching the world's best on the biggest stages -- well, that's cool, too. But not so immediately engaging. :yes: (YMMD.)

 

[Violet Bliss]

To me it is a question of emotional investment. We feel like we "know" our local skaters, in many cases having watched them (often in person) grow up in the sport, and having shared their trials and achievements. The local Detroit clubs always send skaters to Nationals who have no realistic hope of medalling, but I root for them still. Watching the world's best on the biggest stages -- well, that's cool, too. But not so immediately engaging. :yes: (YMMD.)

I understand the sentiment completely. It's natural fans know and care most about skaters from their own countries.

However, I think Worlds would be very exciting if one (or more) of your own is a real contender. Or, if you are from a country with no previous skating glory, you may be thrilled to just see and root for your skaters to show their talents on the world stage. US is in neither scenario right now so the Nationals may just be the most exciting event for its skating fans.

And then, there are fans who just want to see the best in the world strut their stuff head to head.

 

[ice coverage]

... And although I am thrilled that he is getting some time off, Jason has not been training at all these past two weeks, if Twitter is any indication. ...

But for all we know, Jason could be doing some reduced training on his own while away from Monument.

My interpretation of his tweeting is that his injury is preventing his normal full-blown training with Kori, Rohene, and Vincent.
So it would make sense for Jason to make lemonade from lemons and enjoy time with his beloved family in Illinois.

But it is not uncommon for perfectly healthy skaters (including Jason at other times) to take short "breaks" of a few days now and then (e.g., for Thanksgiving) to go home and visit their families.
Being away from their training base does not mean that they are not skating. According to many other tweets and photos, it is typical for skaters to skate wherever they are during the season ... even if on a mini-break from their usual regimen.

Jason's break from Monument obviously has been longer than a few days, but I for one am not assuming that he has not been training "at all."
(At the very least, we have seen Jason getting rehab for his injury alongside his mother.)

... I would still rather see the men at US Nats than the men at Worlds, because at Worlds we would not have Jason, Max, Adam, Ross and Grant. Unless we get a five man slot.

:agree: I agree 100%.
Everyone is entitled to their own preference. Nothing to debate about. (Doesn't mean that I wouldn't love to see Patrick, Daisuke M., Denis, etc.)

 

[StitchMonkey]

And although I am thrilled that he is getting some time off, Jason has not been training at all these past two weeks, if Twitter is any indication. And I don't think anyone thinks Josh will be at Nats So what will it be?

Looking back, it looks like he did take an extended break last year for Thanksgiving even without injury. And assuming the skater does not make the GPF it is a good time to take a break. Refresh after the grand prix season and then buckle down for nationals. I would not be surprised if he was planning to take last week off anyway if he did not make the GPF.

 

[ice coverage]

Looking back, it looks like he did take an extended break last year for Thanksgiving even without injury. And assuming the skater does not make the GPF it is a good time to take a break. Refresh after the grand prix season and then buckle down for nationals. I would not be surprised if he was planning to take last week off anyway if he did not make the GPF.

I would add that last night was the first night of Hanukkah, and the Browns are Jewish.
So Jason has been able to celebrate Thanksgiving, Jordan's birthday, and Hanukkah with his family .

(Last year, IN had an article about the Aaron family starting its celebration of Hanukkah before its actual dates -- to take advantage of Max and Maddie being home in Arizona for Thanksgiving.)

ETA:

And Dec 15 is Jason's own birthday, although we don't know where he will be by then.

I do think Stitch's point is well taken that Thanksgiving prob. is a relatively opportune time for any U.S. skater to take a little breather away from her/his training base.
I do recall that one year (2013?), Jason's family went to visit him in Colorado on or around December 25. Again, Christmas is not their holiday anyway ... I'm just thinking in terms of a pattern of Jason being the one to travel at Thanksgiving time, whereas late December would be a more important time for training in Colorado.​

 

[qwerty]

It's been a bit of a slow season for the US men, but I have really enjoyed Grant's performances this year.
What place would you predict for him at Nationals? I think he could go from 5-2nd if he skates like he did at the NHK trophy.
Thoughts?
And how would you rank him against Adam Rippon who had similar results this year?

I think Adam is the stronger skater, and will receive higher PCS. For Grant to beat Adam, he needs to be clean and hope Adam makes one or more mistakes.

 

[el henry]

I understand the sentiment completely. It's natural fans know and care most about skaters from their own countries.

However, I think Worlds would be very exciting if one (or more) of your own is a real contender. Or, if you are from a country with no previous skating glory, you may be thrilled to just see and root for your skaters to show their talents on the world stage. US is in neither scenario right now so the Nationals may just be the most exciting event for its skating fans.

And then, there are fans who just want to see the best in the world strut their stuff head to head.

As has been pointed out upstream, this is totally de gustibus.

I completely understand the allure of seeing the best in the world, and that is why Worlds is selling out and folks go, and they should all have the best of times and Enjoy!

For me, two reasons:

1. I am a homer, I do follow the US men the most closely of all the countries and all the disciplines, I know more about their programs, and familiarity breeds excitement.

2. I would pay money only to see the skaters that I enjoy watching. Many of the top world skaters, I do not enjoy as much. That is probably because I personally couldn't care less if any male skater anywhere ever lands a quad. The skaters whom I see as having that as their primary goal, whether US or elsewhere, I do not enjoy so much. And I would not pay money to see. Just me, my opinion and my money.

So the conclusion: Nats needs to come to my backyard. Or at least the men.

 

[daniiltimin]

Is there any news about Joshua? Did he recover from the injury he got during the summer?