2015 Europeans Men's Short Program Jan 28

[Lipea]

Sergei does have a lot of charisma actually, but he doesn't have the skating skills, transitions, choreo and interpretation that Javi has. So yes, even with a step out Javi deserves to be ahead of him. I'm saying this as a Voronov fan.
Not that I like his skating so much, but I like him and he has big jumps.

That still does not make much sense. Components have to be oriented on TES any way (and in the most of cases they are!).
I am not a fan of current men FS in general. Out of all I could only become a fan of Hanyu if he would have less falls. I just try to understand why they have so much room for judges freedom in PCS. It makes this sport more confusing to watch: subjectivity makes it not just less of the sport but, paradoxally, also less of the art/entertainment. In ladies, because of the smaller numbers, it is better.

 

[plushyfan]

any videos?

 

[sabinfire]

Updated my post in the Videos thread to include (along with Brezina) -- Fernandez & Voronov, all in 1080p HD.

 

[Interspectator]

any videos?

Look in the videos thread.

 

[Interspectator]

Updated my post in the Videos thread to include (along with Brezina) -- Fernandez & Voronov, all in 1080p HD.

-A thousand thanks!

 

[silverfoxes]

Updated my post in the Videos thread to include (along with Brezina) -- Fernandez & Voronov, all in 1080p HD.

Thank you, merci, spasibo, gracias, etc.

 

[invisiblespiral]

Wait.... the Menshov voodoo dolls were from 2013.

 

[plushyfan]

Updated my post in the Videos thread to include (along with Brezina) -- Fernandez & Voronov, all in 1080p HD.

thanks

 

[gmyers]

Happy for voronov despite 2a.

 

[Caustica]

That still does not make much sense. Components have to be oriented on TES any way (and in the most of cases they are!).
I am not a fan of current men FS in general. Out of all I could only become a fan of Hanyu if he would have less falls. I just try to understand why they have so much room for judges freedom in PCS. It makes this sport more confusing to watch: subjectivity makes it not just less of the sport but, paradoxally, also less of the art/entertainment. In ladies, because of the smaller numbers, it is better.

Components are supposed to be separate from TES. They measure different things altogether. But it is reasonable, of course, that falls and other disruptions should affect the PE part of Components. Transitions, choreography etc. theoretically should be independent from TES.

I think PCS is such a good idea - theoretically. Otherwise programmes could just be elements haphazardly pieced together with no view towards artistic merit at all. (Although that still happens a lot, haha.) But as we all know, PCS is so much of the time just reputation scoring. Still, when discussing what mark someone should or shouldn't have gotten, we should appeal to the original intent of PCS.

 

[plushyfan]

Look in the videos thread.

:thumbsup:

 

[Alba]

That still does not make much sense. Components have to be oriented on TES any way (and in the most of cases they are!).

But they are oriented on TES, although in theory they are quite different. Why should a step out should be reflected on the SS, choreo, interpretation etc? Javi could fall in all jumps, but his SS are still better than Voronov. This is not subjective, it's a fact.

In ladies, because of the smaller numbers, it is better.

In ladies is not much better at all. Carolina used to get high PCS despite falls. Wagner now is getting very good PCS despite low tech compared with the high TES of the top russian girls, for example.

 

[Frenchie]

2015 European Championships - Chafik Besseghier SP B.ESP2 (1080p HD, good for the commentary, at least)

Thanks for the HQ video!!
OK, now anyone tell me this 3A wasn't <<.
They marked it as <.
Had it been judged <<, he wouldn't have qualified for the Free Skate, even with the huge PCS he got. He'd have been 28th and not 24th.

 

[Plisskin]

Missed it so looking at video's on Youtube and couldn't help but notice a lot of empty seats. I guess figure skating isn't that popular in Sweden.

 

[Alba]

Thanks for the HQ video!!
OK, now anyone tell me this 3A wasn't <<.
They marked it as <.
Had it been judged <<, he wouldn't have qualified for the Free Skate, even with the huge PCS he got. He'd have been 28th and not 24th.

3A or not those PCS were so ridiculous.

 

[matmuh]

congratz to top 3 despite the mistakes, but worse one was michal i think, why did he give us hope and then break our heart at the end , i was so happy that he was gonna take the lead even though i like javi more hopefully they can bring it on friday

about voronov vs javi, i think pcs difference is normal, i think it was skate canada when BESP commentator simon thought voronov did better (cleaner program) at FP but javi got more PCS there and chris said something that i totally agree, he said " if voronov skated javier's LP he wouldnt have known what to do with it", its the same for their SP too i think, for 3A voronov skates like 5 secs? maybe more then jump but javi does so many things, it affects their GOE and PCS at the same time, that explains their difference well i think

 

[Alba]

Missed it so looking at video's on Youtube and couldn't help but notice a lot of empty seats. I guess figure skating isn't that popular in Sweden.

or that unemployment isn't that high in Sweden.

 

[silverfoxes]

Don't lots of Swedes take long vacations in the wintertime (to warmer climates)? Perhaps they should just hold Euros in Barcelona from now on.

 

[Lipea]

But they are oriented on TES, although in theory they are quite different. Why should a step out should be reflected on the SS, choreo, interpretation etc? Javi could fall in all jumps, but his SS are still better than Voronov. This is not subjective, it's a fact.

yes, but it should be reflected on Performance and Interpretation since it spoils the performance and leaves worse impression of the interpretation.
In ladies it is at least not as crucial, again as I said, because the numbers are smaller. Ashley gets high PCS fair, since she is the only mature skater out of the current top ones, and it definitely shows on her interpretation, and also she has indeed beautiful stroke/speed/overall skills. In case of Javier and Voronov we have two skaters with the same experience.
Getting away from these two there is also Bychenko, a mature skater, who was technically much superior to Amodio, Liebers, Pitkeev, Kovtun, but whose components are even lower than totally disastrous Chafik. Isn't it ridiculous?

 

[Alba]

yes, but it should be reflected on Performance and Interpretation since it spoils the performance and leaves worse impression of the interpretation.
In ladies it is at least not as crucial, again as I said, because the number are smaller. Ashley gets high PCS fair, since she is the only mature skater out of the current top ones, and it definitely shows on her interpretation, and also she has indeed beautiful stroke/speed/overall skills. In case of Javier and Voronov we have two skaters with the same experience.
Getting away from these two there is also Bychenko, a mature skater, who was technically much superior to Amodio, Liebers, Pitkeev, Kovtun, but whose components are even lower than totally disastrous Chafik. Isn't it ridiculous?

A step out, but even a fall when you quicly get back on track doesn't interrupt the performance tbh, let alone interpretation. The difference in points today between Javi and Voronov are well justified.
Wagner is a mature skater and she indeed does very well in terms of IN and PE, but she doesn't have that much speed, or cover much ice. Both Elena and Yulia are much better than her in those aspects, and she doesn't have much transitions either. Yet she does get the same or better scores there.