2016-17 GPF Free Dance

[4everchan]

i had different reactions about the top 3 but also loved them...

the final flight at world will have 5 teams... for some reasons, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw other teams there than the ones ranked 4-6.

Regarding the mush as you coined the term.... this is what I would say... Dubreuil is rather new with the Montreal school... her talent is clear. She perhaps had too many programs to build too quickly and perhaps some of them were too much of the same thing... but that's a style she felt comfortable with and obviously, put her on the map as top coach.

Now, I wouldn't be surprised if she felt more comfortable to try different things and push push and push. A great creator, and I suspect she is one, may have more affinities with one style early on. but will likely develop and explore... if you feel bored with her programs, I am sure she feels herself that there are other options... However, perhaps it is her teaching method too... get the mush right, that will improve your partnership, your technique and your levels... then let's see what else you can come up with... I personally think that Scott and Tessa, who are more mature than the other teams she trains have their own style in here... and I wouldn't call it mush... pretty sure P/C will also experiment more and more over the years.
YMMV

 

[Mango]

I tried an interesting thing that maybe some of you have done before. I watched the programs without music. I found myself focusing more on technique and how elements flow from one to the other, and not on how things fit with the music. Random things I noted:

With Hubbell/Donohue I noticed that their lifts are a bit laboured. As a whole they don't look as polished. They do create 'moments' though which likely makes up for some of that.
With the Shibutanis it was that their movements are quite precise. It feels like they slow down to enter their twizzles to give more control. More lower body movement than upper body. Not as much abandon as last year's GPF FD - almost cautious?
Bobrova/Soloviev are really athletic. High intensity. Need a bit more refinement.
The French really go for their elements. A lot of energy into some things. But Guillaume is doing a lot more during a lift than Gabriella. They are less synchronized during step sequences than I thought.
Tessa and Scott don't look laboured. Things are flowing. You can see some bits that are David Wilson and some bits that are Marie-France Dubreuil. There is room for more during step sequences. There's a level of comfort in the program that wasn't there at Skate Canada...though I suppose we saw that at NHK already.

Didn't get to watch Chock/Bates.

Have you guys done this before? What were your thoughts?

 

[yuna13]

chock and bates: love their choice this year and after 1 hour of junior pairs having a modern music
and also it was clear at the rink that they have less fan than the two other american team. but with the choice they made this year i think they won a lot of fan such as me, my mum. so the judges are going to choose the shibs this year but still being different this year is really good.

B/S : the music... it's hurts your ears. i felt nothing. when i heard the 4 seasons i thought of W/P. oh and 4 min with them felt like 10.

H/D: i think their choreography is the best from all the montreal team, it really works with the music. my mum loved them right from the beginnig at the warm up, her eyes were just following them naturally. they really get your attention.

P/C: i wanted to see them at their best. i couldn't applaude, i couldn't move, i felt so relieve at the end. the way they move is just....guillaume... there is miles and miles between him and the other man in temrs of body movement.

the shibs: the music is monotome, the skating is beautiful. the music doesn't help them. at the end i turn my head and i saw two people crying and i recognized their mother thank to their vlog.

V/M: true professionals, the problem with the music...sam Smith voice is worse live. again about the mistake where i was it was obvious, even my mum who isn't used of twizzles saw it. i not going to write my impression cause if i do their fan will.... and i won't put my mother impression for the same reason. it's no bad or mean it's just how we felt but i prefer not to say.

 

[heavy]

I disagree... This season programs are made for both shine, Madison and Evan. I read somewhere people saying they were drowned to Evan in the FD.

Not put P/C along with your choices of most musical ice dancers for me is a weird idea.

I will disagree. I find them, along with Virtue and Moir and Cappellini and Lannotte, among the most musical ice dancers still competing. There are ice dancers with many medals who don't have a musical atom in their bodies. I also believe the Shibs are among the strongest technicians.

On a different front, I find when I look back on youtube that I really miss Madison Chock and her former partner, Greg Zuerlein, who were such great foils for each other. For me, Chock & Bates are ill-matched. In this particular event, the short program especially, they needed a lot more speed and sharpness to match all the face and attitude she's throwing out. She's got a great body and looks fantastic, she's working the face, but the skating sluggish. For that matter, why are their programs always choreographed to Madison? Evan could be a mannequin for all the programs pay attention to him. There are other teams where one or the other partner is considered the "star" but the "lesser" partner is never treated as just a prop to the extent they treat Evan.

 

[maddiesparks]

i had different reactions about the top 3 but also loved them...

the final flight at world will have 5 teams... for some reasons, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw other teams there than the ones ranked 4-6.

Regarding the mush as you coined the term.... this is what I would say... Dubreuil is rather new with the Montreal school... her talent is clear. She perhaps had too many programs to build too quickly and perhaps some of them were too much of the same thing... but that's a style she felt comfortable with and obviously, put her on the map as top coach.

Now, I wouldn't be surprised if she felt more comfortable to try different things and push push and push. A great creator, and I suspect she is one, may have more affinities with one style early on. but will likely develop and explore... if you feel bored with her programs, I am sure she feels herself that there are other options... However, perhaps it is her teaching method too... get the mush right, that will improve your partnership, your technique and your levels... then let's see what else you can come up with... I personally think that Scott and Tessa, who are more mature than the other teams she trains have their own style in here... and I wouldn't call it mush... pretty sure P/C will also experiment more and more over the years.
YMMV

What she and Patrice have managed to do with that school in a relatively short amount of time with their skaters is amazing. I see great differences between what V/M and P/C are putting out in their programs, as far as emotion, style and skating. Sure, it's all under the umbrella of contemporary, but the intention behind both programs sets two very different tones. Madi and Zach have the 'mushy' free dance, so that concept still exists within the school, but like you have said 4everchan, I think we will see MF begin to really explore and deviate from that style, and IMO we are already starting to see that with P/C and V/M this season.

 

[oat]

I was in the zone where the skaters enter on ice.
Don't worry, P/C and V/M talk together and smile etc
it's the first time i go in GPF.
Shibs : the first thing i see it's they are slow when i compare to V/M and P/C these two are so fast :shocked:
the second thing it's the coverage ice. How many time i would like see them to go more where I am, but not just a few. they're most skating in the other side and in the middle
their coverage in under the other teams.
For me they want to make P/C but it doesn't work.

D/H : an emotional program. I appreciate it. same problem than Shibs slow (always in comparaison to V/M and P/C).

V/M : i saw the problem in the twizzle by Scott in live. Did the judges saw it. Well skated, nothing to say about the scores. but I feel nothing. congratulations for their first gold medal here. I prefer their SD which is my number one this year.

P/C : omg Guillaume is something
not that i'm in love lol but i don't know how to express it, his body, he is so different from others skaters.
his arms movement etc
I still don't like this program because i think this routine lack of magic thing. I don't know if they can do something better than build a home which is among my top 5 of FD of all time.
But their skating skills is something.
Gaby was fantastic. In live she shine and you don't see this gap with Guillaume.

 

[sarama]

So did the French Fed tried to sabotage V/M with that music mishap?

The French conspiracy against Tessa and Scott started a long time ago... I'm sure they are training with Gabi and Guillaume just to keep an eye on them (you know...keep your friends close, but your enemies closer) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_-UK6nLuCw

 

[yuna13]

P/C : omg Guillaume is something
not that i'm in love lol but i don't know how to express it, his body, he is so different from others skaters.
his arms movement etc
I still don't like this program because i think this routine lack of magic thing. I don't know if they can do something better than build a home which is among my top 5 of FD of all time.
But their skating skills is something.
Gaby was fantastic. In live she shine and you don't see this gap with Guillaume.

well said.
they did 2 amazing programs back to back ( mozart and build a home). so this year program isn't the same level in terms of momemtum as previous years but i'm not worried for next year, they want olympic gold.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Just something to note: all of the interesting dances coming out of Montreal are done in collaboration with another choreographer.

Sorry, I'm not a fan of H/D's mushy snoozefest of a FD.

But, as always, YMMV.

 

[labgoat]

All three of the top couples chose to do a tone poem style of program with different themes. Virtue and Moir went for an earthy, personal reflection on their partnership - the emotions of training and competing while latched to one you are not in a relationship with. G & G wearing the colors of a thunderstorm skate of an impending storm, cloudburst and a kind of huddling together to weather a storm and finally its conclusion. All that is missing is the sun to come out. It is oddly symbolic of the turmoil they are experiencing with the increased competition. I find Gaby to be finding her strength while Guillaume to be restless. The Shibs have entitled their poem evolution - they have gone minimalist because it suits their clean lines and pure technique. The tone poem approach releases them from the bonds of being a brother-sister team and gives them new thematic freedom to explore the emotions as a team...that's life and evolution. Actually similar to VM as a commentary on partnership except as a unit rather than a latching of partners.

 

[NoNameFace]

That was beautifully expressed, NoNameFace. Such a refreshing and much needed respite from the rancor and jingoism that often accompany too many ice dance reviews. I hope you will continue to grace this board with your comments through the rest of the season.

I love your posts on ice dance! You are always so thoughtful, fair, and insightful. I look forward to many more from you in the future!

:

thank you very much for your kind words! As I am not very good at Ice Dance technical specifics, I try to focus my posts more on my impressions on each dance and try to reach even 'behind' them, to see the story and understand it. I really want to express my opinions on programs, not getting too 'attached' to teams specifically to avoid any personal bias. And I just really like to write, I am glad I can express my thought here

 

[WeakAnkles]

:

thank you very much for your kind words! As I am not very good at Ice Dance technical specifics, I try to focus my posts more on my impressions on each dance and try to reach even 'behind' them, to see the story and understand it. I really want to express my opinions on programs, not getting too 'attached' to teams specifically to avoid any personal bias. And I just really like to write, I am glad I can express my thought here

Works for me. I always enjoy reading your posts.

:agree:

 

[bramweld]

My two cents;

Bronze: The material feels like W/P's Seasons programme. Its very smartly done but their isn't an organic connection to this music. Its obvious they're just trying to set themselves up for good placement. Dah!! This is what everyone is doing. But yeah, it doesn't have to be so obvious. They do do have the potential to do great things though. I'm still in love with their first senior FD as well as their superlative cinema paradiso. So onwards and upwards you two

Silver: First time I really connected with this programme from P/C. However it needs total commitment, abandon and a lot more speed in the end. They seem to have made a few nice changes here and there. It just didn't quite gel together as they'd like. These two create a certain magic on the ice they just need to get out of their own heads and bring their A++ game because Voir will bring it. Voir have the best SD this season and they know it, so they have to get into their own bubble.

Gold: Well, let me tell you if I were a judge who got to see them perform that short dance it might have taken some pretty serious errors for them to lose the title. All joking aside though, I'm not a fan of their FD. I appreciate what they bring in terms of their excellent skating skills and it does have great moments but I'm somehow not drawn into it as their SD. Its a smart program though to show off their skills, skating and artistry combined. I am already looking forward to their rhumba SD They are in a league of their own and they are hungry for that OG medal next season.

 

[ancientpeas]

My two cents;

Bronze: The material feels like W/P's Seasons programme. Its very smartly done but their isn't an organic connection to this music. Its obvious they're just trying to set themselves up for good placement. Dah!! This is what everyone is doing. But yeah, it doesn't have to be so obvious. They do do have the potential to do great things though. I'm still in love with their first senior FD as well as their superlative cinema paradiso. So onwards and upwards you two

Silver: First time I really connected with this programme from P/C. However it needs total commitment, abandon and a lot more speed in the end. They seem to have made a few nice changes here and there. It just didn't quite gel together as they'd like. These two create a certain magic on the ice they just need to get out of their own heads and bring their A++ game because Voir will bring it. Voir have the best SD this season and they know it, so they have to get into their own bubble.

Gold: Well, let me tell you if I were a judge who got to see them perform that short dance it might have taken some pretty serious errors for them to lose the title. All joking aside though, I'm not a fan of their FD. I appreciate what they bring in terms of their excellent skating skills and it does have great moments but I'm somehow not drawn into it as their SD. Its a smart program though to show off their skills, skating and artistry combined. I am already looking forward to their rhumba SD They are in a league of their own and they are hungry for that OG medal next season.

I refer to this as
1. 50 dollar itune card winner
2. 25 dollar itune card winner
3. 15 dollar itune card winner.

I wonder how much Justin Bieber the 50 dollar winners will be downloading?

 

[ancientpeas]

Hey, you stole my suggestion!



But really, you can NEVER go wrong with gift certificates!

:cool2:

They probably would have been happier with gift certificates than the plastic medals. And a coupon for 2 for one 1 gelato.

 

[Mrs. P]

My two cents;

Bronze: The material feels like W/P's Seasons programme. Its very smartly done but their isn't an organic connection to this music. Its obvious they're just trying to set themselves up for good placement. Dah!! This is what everyone is doing. But yeah, it doesn't have to be so obvious. They do do have the potential to do great things though. I'm still in love with their first senior FD as well as their superlative cinema paradiso. So onwards and upwards you two

FWIW, and it's been mentioned elsewhere, but it turns out that someone identified the last part of the music -- "Truman Sleeps" from The Truman Show soundtrack. And the original piece by Phillip Glass is actually a piano piece. Alex worked on the orchestral arrangement with the San Francisco Orchestra. Seems like a lot of effort for just a judge point grab.

I think it's a matter that perhaps the challenge of showing their connection to this music. The music, unlike Fix You, doesn't really lend itself to raw emotion or connection, so they have to find other ways to show it. I think they'll get there.

 

[rosy14]

FWIW, and it's been mentioned elsewhere, but it turns out that someone identified the last part of the music -- "Truman Sleeps" from The Truman Show soundtrack. And the original piece by Phillip Glass is actually a piano piece. Alex worked on the orchestral arrangement with the San Francisco Orchestra. Seems like a lot of effort for just a judge point grab.

I think it's a matter that perhaps the challenge of showing their connection to this music. The music, unlike Fix You, doesn't really lend itself to raw emotion or connection, so they have to find other ways to show it. I think they'll get there.

Yeah, but it requires perhaps a greater intelligence to be appreciated, both by judges and public. I like it a lot and hope they will improve in skating it.

 

[Mrs. P]

Yeah, but it requires perhaps a greater intelligence to be appreciated, both by judges and public. I like it a lot and hope they will improve in skating it.

Yep I agree. However, it's the Shibs' job to provide the audience/judges the tools to appreciate the program.

And honestly, it probably would have been worse if they did try to do a Fix You-type program. Have people forgotten the amount of consternation they got with the 2011-2012 FD because it was perceived to be an inferior version of their bronze winning program at Worlds?

There's no way they were going to go down that road again -- so why not try something new (for them).

 

[rosy14]

Yep I agree. However, it's the Shibs' job to provide the audience/judges the tools to appreciate the program.

And honestly, it probably would have been worse if they did try to do a Fix You-type program. Have people forgotten the amount of consternation they got with the 2011-2012 FD because it was perceived to be an inferior version of their bronze winning program at Worlds?

There's no way they were going to go down that road again -- so why not try something new (for them).

Yes, they're trying something new, and for me it's a point of merit. Other too have tried to change (Chock/Bates and Weaver/Poje last year and the previous year too)and I congratulate them, even though they have had two bad programs (at Final and in Moscow). Other, instead, are doing more or less the same things in a two year row, but successfully, it seems.

 

[Manchu10]

chock and bates: love their choice this year and after 1 hour of junior pairs having a modern music
and also it was clear at the rink that they have less fan than the two other american team. but with the choice they made this year i think they won a lot of fan such as me, my mum. so the judges are going to choose the shibs this year but still being different this year is really good.

B/S : the music... it's hurts your ears. i felt nothing. when i heard the 4 seasons i thought of W/P. oh and 4 min with them felt like 10.

H/D: i think their choreography is the best from all the montreal team, it really works with the music. my mum loved them right from the beginnig at the warm up, her eyes were just following them naturally. they really get your attention.

P/C: i wanted to see them at their best. i couldn't applaude, i couldn't move, i felt so relieve at the end. the way they move is just....guillaume... there is miles and miles between him and the other man in temrs of body movement.

the shibs: the music is monotome, the skating is beautiful. the music doesn't help them. at the end i turn my head and i saw two people crying and i recognized their mother thank to their vlog.

V/M: true professionals, the problem with the music...sam Smith voice is worse live. again about the mistake where i was it was obvious, even my mum who isn't used of twizzles saw it. i not going to write my impression cause if i do their fan will.... and i won't put my mother impression for the same reason. it's no bad or mean it's just how we felt but i prefer not to say.

V/M are just the best. They'll win the olympic gold. I am really excited to see you raging when V/M will get the olympic gold.