2016-17 State of Japanese Ladies Skating | Page 12 | Golden Skate

2016-17 State of Japanese Ladies Skating

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Still, she URs a lot, even excluding the unfair calls.
And at this point, her rep is damaging her scores, as the tech pannel will of course look for URs.

It is a self-fulfilling prophecy that fits the needs of those favored by the tech crew and judges and leads to unjust scoring. The tech crew calls harsh and or bogus urs and edge calls one one skater like Mao and doesn't even look at other skaters even if they have huge pre-rotation with less rotation (only looking at the landing), and ignores obvious edge violations, significant hooks in the ice or large spray on landings which I have all seen overlooked, and then by singling out skaters like Mao, it is erroneously rationalized through the prejudice of reputational scoring to continue the discriminatory practice in perpetuity and give others a free pass or at least a big discount on their tech calls.

I think there are others unchosen by the tech crew, but Mao is historically a big threat to podium and win and has some of the biggest elements, so I think she often gets the harshest treatment in major championships as the following harsh and for me bogus urs calls showed: Worlds 2010 SP and the second LP triple axel / double toe urs , 4CC's 2012 LP triple axel ur (in the US), Grand Prix Final SP 2013 triple axel ur, the Sochi LP 2014 3F / 3L and 3T urs, Worlds 2014 LP 3A and 3F / 3L urs which originally had excellent GOE, the double ur call on the 3F / 3L in the Grand Prix Final SP 2015 (the 3F should be called good), Worlds 2016 LP (also in the US) the triple axel ur was bogus as many said with an early take off of less than 180 degrees and the take of point on the triple toe at less than 180 degrees of pre-rotation also indicates good rotation overall as others have said because with the landing it was actually a little more than 2 1/4 of rotations, more than some of those who had their triple toes counted good with excessive pre-rotation. Only looking at the landing of a jump without analyzing the take off point does not make sense because there is no way of knowing if the skater rotated 2 1/4 rotations. I honestly don't know about the 3F / 3L because her skate turned so quickly on landing. But her 2 lutz edge in the Worlds 2016 LP was also criticized on this forum, which I agree was unjust, especially considering the lenient calls given to others who should have received edge calls. Many of these calls were widely criticized by posters on videos, forums, by eurosprot commentators, while even contradicting the high GOE originally given by the judges.

The ur call on the backend 3F / 3L in the Cup of China LP was also very harsh in my opinion considering the nature of the jump and lack of excessive pre-rotation for such a challenging backend combo. It's as if this beautiful and unique and highly challenging jump combo has been extinguished from women's skating. I am so impressed that Mao continues to challenge this element to add unique beauty to her performances in spite of the fact that erroneously she almost never gets credit for it. Besides, draconian deductions of 30 and 40 percent overall for minute urs that very few can even see in real time (or that are argued over in slow motion replay) or that often don't even exist is ridiculous to me and seriously undermines the beauty and deceptive power of Mao's fluidity, erect posture, height, distance and symmetrical air position.

If even half of these jumps mentioned above had been counted clean Mao would not be considered to be a skater who urs that often in these competitions. That is an example of how unjust reputational scoring truly is, especially when others have reputations that allow them to receive reputational free passes and tech call "discounts." I think it probably works on Mao's and anyone else's nerves to be disfavored with unjust reputational ur calls and gives an advantage to the one treated leniently that goes beyond the draconian deductions themselves because it places extra pressure on those who have to endure the comparatively unjust calls repeatedly.

My eyes have seen many bogus and double standard calls by analyzing slow motion replay and I didn't believe it until I started looking closely. And this doesn't even consider PCS deflation. The fact that Mao has the most expansive rink coverage and jump placement, especially near the boards, shows that she has superior skating skills and that she must have good speed to cover that much of the rink so easily with little obtrusive hunching or pumping and such erect posture. And as for artistry, well, her huge view counts on youtube for the videos that haven't been removed (as her most viewed one in the Sochi LP was by the IOC) attest to her compelling artistry, with Madame Butterfly at Worlds being a prime example. 7th place for the most viewed freeskate does indicate a serious contradiction in valuation to me and many others. So in my opinion, the unjust PCS deflation is just an extension of the unjust tech deflation.

I have to admit I am amazed that Mao continues to skate with this degree of obvious unfavoritism, but then again this has been going on for a very long time. I can only assume that the deep satisfaction she gets when her performances measure up to the vision she has in her mind like the Madame Butterfly at Worlds LP along with the great praise she gets from the fans for such performances overshadow the scoring concerns. As Mao said after her Madame Butterfly 2016 LP, though I can't remember the exact words, I am very happy and I skated very well and I really don't care about the scores. I think it is also this idealistic, fighter spirit and commitment to fulfilling her own unique vision that inspires her to continue and endears her to so many fans.
 
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2A+3T+2Lo!!

Yessss Rika, yesss!!!!! Get it. I think this is the first time that combination has ever been done in competition by a lady. Triple+Triple+2Lo combos have been extinct for so long, no just in the Ladies event. It's so nice to finally see someone bring it back (even though it's a 2A at the start rather than a Triple).

However, this is not a very good program. Her musical selections from last season are going to be hard to top, they were a great fit for her. I'd like to see her do a Michael Jackson medley for a Long Program.
 
Her SP looked great in summer, but looks tired in this LP, and laboured, and quite clumsy. Maybe white dress is not good for her.

2A+3T+2Lo!!

Yessss Rika, yesss!!!!! Get it. I think this is the first time that combination has ever been done in competition by a lady. Triple+Triple+2Lo combos have been extinct for so long, no just in the Ladies event. It's so nice to finally see someone bring it back (even though it's a 2A at the start rather than a Triple).

However, this is not a very good program. Her musical selections from last season are going to be hard to top, they were a great fit for her. I'd like to see her do a Michael Jackson medley for a Long Program.
 
Yeah that color doesn't work for her. The spins all need work. The step sequences aren't memorable and overall the program isn't surprising. This is big and iconic music; many changes are going to need to be made if she's going to pull it off. I don't see nearly enough character being presented right now. The Japanese field is deep and she is in serious danger of not being on the World team if her programs aren't special.
 
There are some little nuisances you don't think of often but they somehow do not disappear forever. Two years ago I started a heated discussion after writing about Wakaba's lutz: "She has a trick - about half a second before the take-off she clearly moves to the outer edge. But then she moves back and at the take-off she looks almost flat - that I could see at the snapshot I made".

People with various level of emotions explained me how wrong I was and that Wakaba has a texbook style lutz with the clear outside edge. Now that she got ! for lutz in a recent competition I can finally close this topic for myself. (no further discussion is necessary).
 
For the past two years, I've looked at Wakaba Higuchi's triple flip and said to myself, "that's a perfect, inside-edge takeoff on that flip. I don't care that it's getting called with an e or a ! all the time, in my eyes it's perfect."

Now that her flip did not get an edge call in the SP in this competition, I feel so, so vindicated. :hap10:
 
Well in the SP she didn't get a ! on her flip, but she got a ! on the lutz. In the FS it was the other way around. Not to mention the popped jumps. There's either happening something with her technique or she's just warming up at the beginning of the season.
 
I'm bracing myself for that incredible privilege.

I mean, who wouldn't? Ice cream is incredible! :biggrin:

Back on topic, we'll be able to see some top Japanese ladies, senior and junior, compete this weekend, Marin, Wakaba, Kanako, Kaori, Mako will debut too, it's definitely absolutely exciting.
 
Well done Ladies in the SP. They all were very good performances. I know Marin wanted to nail her jumps, but her SS is still so beautiful.
Kaori impressed me again. I want her to be more expressive and on beat but her speed and jumps and cheerful style has won me over.
 
Time to update this thread. First, here are the first 3 senior ladies who have competed in the Challenger Series so far.

Wakaba Higuchi - Lombardia Trophy (gold)
SP - La Califfa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deycs62qMNA
FS - Scheherazade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-2ZBVBP8OY

Kanako Murakami - Lombardia Trophy (6th place)
SP - Carmen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqMJBjtSWuk
FS - Tosca
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr7zo4_hajE

Satoko Miyahara - US International Classic (gold)
SP - Musetta's Waltz (La Boheme)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi0IniPMv3M
FS - The Planets / Star Wars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCWSs4NvKW0
 
I don't know if this has been brought up or not: how do you guys think the possibility that Marin takes over Satoko in two years as the No. 1 Japanese lady?

Marin has some unstoppable star quality so that when she is clean, she can get very high pcs. Marin also has better jumps (sorry, this is a matter of fact I need to state here when comparing two Japanese ladies). Her spins can be better though.

Marin is eligible for 2018 Olympics, right? She should be on the team.
 
I don't know if this has been brought up or not: how do you guys think the possibility that Marin takes over Satoko in two years as the No. 1 Japanese lady?

Of course it's been brought up before. A lot of people can barely wait for that to happen :laugh: The possibility will depend on federation politics and on Marin herself. Why should she be on the 2018 Olympics team? Because she has "star quality"? (I'm getting so tired of this so-called quality that apparently brings all the PCS in the house; this is skating, not a beauty pageant). She will have to earn it, just like everyone else.
 
Yes, Marin is eligible for 2018.

To be honest, fair or not, I think the JSF would be quite ready to drop Satoko as japanese first... either for Wakaba this season, or for Marin the next (or even for both). And obviously for a "really back" Mao too. After nationals last season I thought a bit differently, but after worlds 2016 and the way the media treated the results and everything... I don't want to sound harsh, but I think Satoko will have to work and fight really hard to keep that spot, probably harder than some others.

That said, she might make it just as well as Wakaba or Marim might 'dethrone' her... I wouldn't feel confident with any prediction about this.
 
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Marin is amazing and I love everything about her skating!

If she is consistent, there is no stopping her.

She has matured so much since last year - a real lady now!

Beautiful arms, smooth skating, great jumps, musicality, lines...she has it all :love:
 
I think Kanako's future doesn't look that bright :no:
Mao, Wakaba, Hongo, Satoko and soon Marin Will join the seniors, they all have success, winning medals. It looks for me as if Kanako's team gave up on her :no:
 
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