2016-17 State of Japanese Ladies Skating

[daphenaxa]

If last season were the pre-Olympic season, the three most likely candidates would have been Satoko, Marin and Wakaba.

Depends on how everyone will skate next season and in the first part of 2017-2018, those candidates can change. If Mao will start getting better results, she will be on the team even if she finishes off the podium at 2017 Nationals. It's pretty obvious to me that they want Marin on the team as well. The others (including Satoko) won't have that kind of luxury in case they struggle.

Really? Honestly I think Satoko is pretty much the only lock imo.
Mao has to skate well this season and hopefully get better results and I think they will give it to her even if she bombs at nationals. A bit like what happened with Daisuke in 2014. I know it shouldn't really be like that, but after what she has accomplished for the sport in Japan and her incredible popularity they would want to send her. But I do think she has to skate well this coming season.
Then yeah I think they want either Marin or Wakaba. Marin is a more complete (and better) skater imo but I don't think they would held her up if Wakaba beats her.
Rika has not chance internationally

 

[ioanna]

Really? Honestly I think Satoko is pretty much the only lock imo.
Mao has to skate well this season and hopefully get better results and I think they will give it to her even if she bombs at nationals. A bit like what happened with Daisuke in 2014. I know it shouldn't really be like that, but after what she has accomplished for the sport in Japan and her incredible popularity they would want to send her. But I do think she has to skate well this coming season.
Then yeah I think they want either Marin or Wakaba. Marin is a more complete (and better) skater imo but I don't think they would held her up if Wakaba beats her.
Rika has not chance internationally

The fact that Satoko skated clean at Worlds and finished 5th was considered "a disappointing result" by the Japanese media. They wanted another medal from her, she didn't get one so the media focused on Mao's free skate and her relieved smile time and time again. If Satoko doesn't get another World medal next season, I don't think they will care about her consistency.

I think Wakaba is on her way to becoming a "complete" skater, she always shows her performing skills in exhibition programs. I hope she will transfer that in competition because so far I think she's capable of showing a larger range of performances. From her fierce FS at Jr Worlds to her showy mambo SP, sensitive and mature Byakuyako and "all about that bass" fun.

So far, Marin Honda has performed a smiley SP, a smiley and showy FS, a brand new smiley SP (literally) and looking at her exhibitions they're... still smiley and showy. However, when she's nervous and starts making mistakes, she switches to emotionless.

I get why people think she is better than Wakaba because in general extroverted skating - even if it's just smiley and showy and especially if it's performed by a beautiful skater - is considered better performing. But in fact that's just liking the skater and the way they skate, even if they do the same showy things. Wakaba is a bit more introverted and sensitive, but she shows more competitive spirit than Marin. If she keeps working on her lines and will be given better choreography from now on, she will (officially) be better than Marin, jumps included.

 

[JuliaHols]

The fact that Satoko skated clean at Worlds and finished 5th was considered "a disappointing result" by the Japanese media. They wanted another medal from her, she didn't get one so the media focused on Mao's free skate and her relieved smile time and time again. If Satoko doesn't get another World medal next season, I don't think they will care about her consistency.

I think Wakaba is on her way to becoming a "complete" skater, she always shows her performing skills in exhibition programs. I hope she will transfer that in competition because so far I think she's capable of showing a larger range of performances. From her fierce FS at Jr Worlds to her showy mambo SP, sensitive and mature Byakuyako and "all about that bass" fun.

So far, Marin Honda has performed a smiley SP, a smiley and showy FS, a brand new smiley SP (literally) and looking at her exhibitions they're... still smiley and showy. However, when she's nervous and starts making mistakes, she switches to emotionless.

I get why people think she is better than Wakaba because in general extroverted skating - even if it's just smiley and showy and especially if it's performed by a beautiful skater - is considered better performing. But in fact that's just liking the skater and the way they skate, even if they do the same showy things. Wakaba is a bit more introverted and sensitive, but she shows more competitive spirit than Marin. If she keeps working on her lines and will be given better choreography from now on, she will (officially) be better than Marin, jumps included.

I agree with everything u said! Satoko tends to get held down. Which is unfair obviously. And imo Marin is the only lock spot, I mean how can she not be after she'd been "advertised" as the "pyeongchang Olympic hope". She'll probably make the team even if she doesn't podium at Nationals, seeing how she made the JW team this year finishing 6th at Junior Nats and 9th at Senior Nats, I suppose the bronze at jgpf did help but still.
Just cause Wakaba doesn't have the ideal balletic body type doesn't she's not a good dancer/performer... I think her new sp will be very diff from last year's, or anything she's done in competition before just looking at the music choice, which is great. And hopefully Marin shows a more dramatic less smiley free skate this year. I also hope she does more than smile in her new sp, bcuz the lyric says others beside "smile" if I'm not mistaken it actually goes like, "hide every trace of sorrow" or something, thus perhaps she can do more than smile. But I suppose we are being too demanding of her.

 

[JuliaHols]

I mean there's nothing wrong with Marin being a more smiley showy skater, bcuz it looks like she's having fun, but I guess a little more versatility couldn't do any harm.

 

[ioanna]

I mean there's nothing wrong with Marin being a more smiley showy skater, bcuz it looks like she's having fun, but I guess a little more versatility couldn't do any harm.

They called Satoko the "pretty princess" type in the other thread but when I think about "pretty princess" Marin Honda is the only Japanese skater I can think of.

 

[daphenaxa]

The fact that Satoko skated clean at Worlds and finished 5th was considered "a disappointing result" by the Japanese media. They wanted another medal from her, she didn't get one so the media focused on Mao's free skate and her relieved smile time and time again. If Satoko doesn't get another World medal next season, I don't think they will care about her consistency.

I think Wakaba is on her way to becoming a "complete" skater, she always shows her performing skills in exhibition programs. I hope she will transfer that in competition because so far I think she's capable of showing a larger range of performances. From her fierce FS at Jr Worlds to her showy mambo SP, sensitive and mature Byakuyako and "all about that bass" fun.

So far, Marin Honda has performed a smiley SP, a smiley and showy FS, a brand new smiley SP (literally) and looking at her exhibitions they're... still smiley and showy. However, when she's nervous and starts making mistakes, she switches to emotionless.

I get why people think she is better than Wakaba because in general extroverted skating - even if it's just smiley and showy and especially if it's performed by a beautiful skater - is considered better performing. But in fact that's just liking the skater and the way they skate, even if they do the same showy things. Wakaba is a bit more introverted and sensitive, but she shows more competitive spirit than Marin. If she keeps working on her lines and will be given better choreography from now on, she will (officially) be better than Marin, jumps included.

Satoko didn't skate clean at worlds, did she? I think she got a few calls, more than usual I think. And yeah then she got hosed in the FS. :/

I personally don't think Marin is a better skater than Wakaba because she is extroverted and I don't tend to prefer extroverted skaters in general. I just think Marin is a lot stronger in skating basics, she always looks smooth and polished, her positions and extensions are a lot better, she is a natural, her jumps look effortless and yeah her programs tend to be happy and smiley but her interpretation is good. Wakaba's skates always look messy and it is not a question of body type. She does have more varied programs but I don't feel any real connection or interpretation to her music except for the fierce pieces like the zorro program because she is indeed a fierce girl. I agree she tends to have more fighting spirit but it is Marin who qualified for GPF and it is Marin who skated two perfect programs at JWC and got gold, so we will have to see about that in the future.
All in all, i think they are both really strong and have different qualities but I maintain I think Marin clearly is superior as of now

 

[Weathergal]

They called Satoko the "pretty princess" type in the other thread but when I think about "pretty princess" Marin Honda is the only Japanese skater I can think of.

Haruka Imai and Yuka Nagai seem more princessy to me than Marin Honda by far.

 

[ioanna]

Satoko didn't skate clean at worlds, did she? I think she got a few calls, more than usual I think. And yeah then she got hosed in the FS. :/

She got a UR and edge call on her 3F in the SP. Her FS was technically clean and her TES was 2nd behind Medvedeva, but her PCS were 7th. As a result she was 3rd in the FS but 5th overall. Although she still had the highest finish among the Japanese ladies, the media wrote a small article about "the things she lacks" and "the disappointing result". Then they focused on praising Mao's FS and airing multiple documentaries/fluffs about Mao and Marin Honda. It's pretty clear that even if Satoko places ahead of Mao in a competition like that, they will still praise Mao. She may be the #1 Japanese lady right now (and also #1 in the world standings), but only unofficially. I'd feel sorry for the way she is treated by media and skating fans online if I didn't know that she doesn't care about being a star. She already said she doesn't consider herself as being the "ace" of the Japanese ladies as long as Mao is still competing.

 

[JuliaHols]

Satoko didn't skate clean at worlds, did she? I think she got a few calls, more than usual I think. And yeah then she got hosed in the FS. :/

I personally don't think Marin is a better skater than Wakaba because she is extroverted and I don't tend to prefer extroverted skaters in general. I just think Marin is a lot stronger in skating basics, she always looks smooth and polished, her positions and extensions are a lot better, she is a natural, her jumps look effortless and yeah her programs tend to be happy and smiley but her interpretation is good. Wakaba's skates always look messy and it is not a question of body type. She does have more varied programs but I don't feel any real connection or interpretation to her music except for the fierce pieces like the zorro program because she is indeed a fierce girl. I agree she tends to have more fighting spirit but it is Marin who qualified for GPF and it is Marin who skated two perfect programs at JWC and got gold, so we will have to see about that in the future.
All in all, i think they are both really strong and have different qualities but I maintain I think Marin clearly is superior as of now

:/ Well u could also argue it was Wakaba who had a back injury in the early of the season to deal with, (which explains the pre-spin-fail in her sp at Austria jgp) Which is why she wasn't able to qualify for the jgpf. And u could also say, it was Wakaba who finished 2nd at Sr.Nats with two clean performances, and it was Marin who finished 9th with three falls (3F in sp, 3F and 3Lz in the fs). but Of course, there's no denying the fact that Marin was more dominant/superior this past season in international competitions. I guess interpretation of music is subjective of course, bcuz I don't feel Marin connects particularly well with her music, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that I do enjoy some versatility but I feel Marin will bring that in the many years to come. I think Marin and Wakaba have about same great basic skating and stroking in diff ways. Marin (or any of Mie hamada's students) tends to have very nice fluid soft skating, but Wakaba has power and flow in hers. So they're both amazing. I don't think Wakaba's skating is always or particulatly messy, nor do I find Marin's always clean and smooth. Anyways, I can't wait to see how she does in Asian Trophy! It should be tonight or something.

 

[daphenaxa]

:/ Well u could also argue it was Wakaba who had a back injury in the early of the season to deal with, (which explains the pre-spin-fail in her sp at Austria jgp) Which is why she wasn't able to qualify for the jgpf. And u could also say, it was Wakaba who finished 2nd at Sr.Nats with two clean performances, and it was Marin who finished 9th with three falls (3F in sp, 3F and 3Lz in the fs). but Of course, there's no denying the fact that Marin was more dominant/superior this past season in international competitions. I guess interpretation of music is subjective of course, bcuz I don't feel Marin connects particularly well with her music, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that I do enjoy some versatility but I feel Marin will bring that in the many years to come. I think Marin and Wakaba have about same great basic skating and stroking in diff ways. Marin (or any of Mie hamada's students) tends to have very nice fluid soft skating, but Wakaba has power and flow in hers. So they're both amazing. I don't think Wakaba's skating is always or particulatly messy, nor do I find Marin's always clean and smooth. Anyways, I can't wait to see how she does in Asian Trophy! It should be tonight or something.

yes we can agree to disagree (and still agree they are both very good) but my post was just to explain that the reasons Ioanna and you seemed to agree upon for explaining why people (and in this case me) think Marin is stronger (her being allegedly a more extroverted and "showy skater" and also Wakaba's body type?!?) are actually not my reasons at all.
Also I didn't want to put Wakaba's competitive spirit down with listing Marin's achievement this season, I definitely agree Wakaba is a fighter, I was just pointing out that given Marin's record this year (and yes, I know, she bombed nationals), it is a bit weird to say Wakaba definitely has the best competitive spirit.

 

[ioanna]

Also I didn't want to put Wakaba's competitive spirit down with listing Marin's achievement this season, I definitely agree Wakaba is a fighter, I was just pointing out that given Marin's record this year (and yes, I know, she bombed nationals), it is a bit weird to say Wakaba definitely has the best competitive spirit.

What I meant by Wakaba having more competitive spirit is the fact that she has 2 Jr Worlds medals, she has her own JGPF medal, she's a 2-time Jr National Champion and a 2-time Sr National Championships medalist, second after Satoko in 2015.

 

[skylark]

I was watching the video of Mao and I realized something. She could maybe also represent Japan or Canada in dance with Jeffrey Buttle they are exquisite, organic and have great skating skills - he may have to beef up a bit or they would be wondeful pairs skaters too. Someone make it happen. They could do individual triple axels take that you Duhamel and Radford and a throw triple axel in the short.

I love your idea for one reason only: that Mao sincerely wants to give more, and as much as she can, to skating world. A throw 3A would be cool, although when US pair Inoue/Baldwin did it, I didn't think it added much actually.

But, if you're serious, they'd have a long ways to go with all the pairs elements. And Jeffrey is really flying as a choreographer.

 

[mcq]

I never consider Marin to be that princessy to be honest. Yes, her style was dreamy in her SP this season and the last but I have a feeling she will grow into a more sassy skater once she becomes an adult. At least, from what I saw on her beetlejuice LP, she has some sass and flirtatiousness that will be more dominant than pretty princess style. She is only 14 now, and last season is her first junior season, I don't think we can expect her to explore sassy/sensual/sexy/flirty style like Ashley wagner or Yuna Kim.

She seems to be experiencing growth spurt last season and presumably this season as well, not just in terms of height but she starts having curves so I would expect this to affect her jumps. However, i think Japan will still push her internationally, especially since the international judges seem to love her (she has higher LP score than wakaba even when wakaba is clean+have harder layout. similarly the case with Sotskova's SP when Sotskova has harder layout too). Although, I still doubt she can beat a clean Polina until she significantly upgrade her layout.

And speaking of consistency, no ladies is really consistent aside of Miyahara and Medvedeva (and maybe Tsurskaya and to a lesser extent Sotskova), i think. None of the other top senior ladies (Gold, Wagner, Asada, Radionova, Pogorilaya, Tukt, etc) is consistent. For the other ladies it is just a matter of which competition you are going to be clean in, and it better be at a competition where it matters.

 

[yhmafan]

Actually I would like to see Marin shows her inner fighting spirit more which she certainly has, but it's too early to make a judgement about her performing ability as she is still 14. (She will be 15 this month! wow happy birthday )

As for her new SP, I don’t know the music choice is good for her since iirc she said in an interview that “Smile” was her last priority among the choices. Probably she had realized that there would be similarity to her last season’s SP and also it may be still early for her age to skate considering of her great sempai Mao finally skated to the same piece after she had overcome so many difficulties.
I am as curious as am concerned what her coach and choreographer thought about it and how they can manage it well for her!

 

[ioanna]

Actually I would like to see Marin shows her inner fighting spirit more which she certainly has, but it's too early to make a judgement about her performing ability as she is still 14. (She will be 15 this month! wow happy birthday )

As for her new SP, I don’t know the music choice is good for her since iirc she said in an interview that “Smile” was her last priority among the choices. Probably she had realized that there would be similarity to her last season’s SP and also it may be still early for her age to skate considering of her great sempai Mao finally skated to the same piece after she had overcome so many difficulties.
I am as curious as am concerned what her coach and choreographer thought about it and how they can manage it well for her!

But she already skated Smile at two different shows and it was presented as her new SP?

 

[chuckm]

In the SP at the Asian Open, Marin finished behind Koreans Ye Lim KIM and Eun Soo LIM, both of whom are headed for the JGP. The two Koreans landed 3Z+3T combos, while Marin managed only 3F+2T.

 

[ioanna]

In the SP at the Asian Open, Marin finished behind Koreans Ye Lim KIM and Eun Soo LIM, both of whom are headed for the JGP. The two Koreans landed 3Z+3T combos, while Marin managed only 3F+2T.

Along with a level 1 spin and a level 2 step sequence.

 

[hippomoomin]

Did Asian Open just take place? Any videos? The new coming Korean juniors seem to be better jumpers at least.

In the SP at the Asian Open, Marin finished behind Koreans Ye Lim KIM and Eun Soo LIM, both of whom are headed for the JGP. The two Koreans landed 3Z+3T combos, while Marin managed only 3F+2T.

 

[JuliaHols]

Did Asian Open just take place? Any videos? The new coming Korean juniors seem to be better jumpers at least.

No video yet . But yeah Marin is skating later for the free skate. I'm really curious of how she's going to do her Romeo and Juliet, especially with the music from both the Niño Rota version and the Leo one. The new Korean Juniors are spectacular! I've only managed to find 1minute clips of them on IG. But their spins are nice too not just the jumps, I dunno about steps sequences so don't take my word for it, but It looked nice and smooth. They may be a threat to Marin and the Russian babies. Does anyone know how many spots the Korean girls have at JW?

 

[hippomoomin]

No video yet . But yeah Marin is skating later for the free skate. I'm really curious of how she's going to do her Romeo and Juliet, especially with the music from both the Niño Rota version and the Leo one. The new Korean Juniors are spectacular! I've only managed to find 1minute clips of them on IG. But their spins are nice too not just the jumps, I dunno about steps sequences so don't take my word for it, but It looked nice and smooth. They may be a threat to Marin and the Russian babies. Does anyone know how many spots the Korean girls have at JW?

I think Eun Soo LIM has very good jumps, SS and star quality. She will be a major threat to Marlin, along with Russian juniors.