2016-2017 State of U.S. Men Figure Skating | Page 9 | Golden Skate

2016-2017 State of U.S. Men Figure Skating

karne said:
Hmm. A 17 year old (is he 17 yet?) kid, still growing, already suffering from previous growth plate injuries and a major hip injury that required surgery only eight months ago, and we'll give him a quad lutz and quad flip to do in his short. Yes, this sounds like an absolutely genius idea.

:palmf:

Way to go, Team Nathan. You clearly haven't learned a single bloody thing.
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Oh Karne...........I swear sometimes that you can read my mind. What are they thinking? It hasn't even been a year since he had surgery, has it? Why do they have him training a quad Lutz this soon. At least they took out the groin killing quad Sal. We're talking about his SP, right? Give him a quad toe and work on his "Artistry" or lack there of. Good grief he is only 17years old. With the strength of the US Men, he's not going to win a "Jump Off" with the current field. Max, Adam, Ross, Jason, and Grant, all have quads and are better performers than Nathan. Before they injure him beyond repair, I think they should pull back a bit on the quads and let him grow as an artist.'

I sound harsh but, I'm really concerned. I trust Raf as he's done such a good job with Adam and Ashley. I wonder if Raf is getting pushed by Nathan to keep the quads in place. When I was young, I was really into trying the hardest tricks but, once you have a serious hip injury, you have to protect your body. Hopefully he'll bounce back quickly and have a good free program.
 
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Skye said:
I'm not a medical professional and can do only waltz jumps on the ice, so I have to beg ignorance here: 4Lz or 4F is less strenuous on the hip than 4S?

In any case, acquiring a new quad means you're going to fall a lot until you get it, which cannot be ideal in Nathan's situation.
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Right, I'm not a doctor either and have no opinion on Nathan's jumps or injury situation except that it's a bit surprising he's tackling 2 new quads so soon after injury. Just repeating what I heard or read.
 
mrrice said:
I sound harsh but, I'm really concerned. I trust Raf as he's done such a good job with Adam and Ashley. I wonder if Raf is getting pushed by Nathan to keep the quads in place. When I was young, I was really into trying the hardest tricks but, once you have a serious hip injury, you have to protect your body. Hopefully he'll bounce back quickly and have a good free program.
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I thought that Raf had pretty much confirmed as much.

I a lot of people are like this at Nathan's age. And it makes me wonder if Raf is the right coach for him right now. Raf does not want to play babysitter for a crazed teen, (he has made comments about keeping distance and such) but right now I think Nathan needs a coach that will take on a less business and more personal role. Maybe go back to Raf when he is 20ish. Or Raf needs to hire a surrogate doting mother for the rink... one hos is a great cook and throws shoes, and will be both loved and feared at the rink.

One though i had is maybe the 4T is an issue as that is what he injured himself on... if 4S is also an issue... this could be a lack of options. In which case I almost wish his camp had said as much. I am really curious to see what is in his free skate today. I might even be relived if it only has 4F and 4Z.
 
I normally don't pay too much attention to what happens in competitions at this point in the season - I feel like it's way too early and I starting taking stock when the GP series starts. But it's hard not to be freaked out by Nathan's SP content right now. Am I being too cautious by thinking that he should add a quad at a time with each competition?
 
The truth is, we don't really know what the situation is with Nathan. We don't know if it was Raf's idea for Nathan to compete two new quads, or if he was against it and overruled by Nathan (or Nathan and his parents). For all we know, Nathan may have been told by a PT or doctor at the Oly Training Center that his hip is completely healed or that falling on a 4Z or 4F is much less harmful to his hip than executing a 4S (unlikely, but who knows). Or he may just be extremely competitive and very headstrong. Only time will tell.
 
mrrice said:
I wonder if Raf is getting pushed by Nathan to keep the quads in place.
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StitchMonkey said:
I thought that Raf had pretty much confirmed as much.
....

Raf does not want to play babysitter for a crazed teen, (he has made comments about keeping distance and such)
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Then Rafael is an idiot. As the coach of a young skater it is his JOB to make sure that young skater is kept under control. It is his RESPONSIBILITY to make sure Nathan is being sensible about his training. This kid had major hip surgery EIGHT MONTHS AGO. Doing a quad flip AND a quad Lutz in a short program IS REALLY BLOODY STUPID.

Nathan is a 17 year old boy. 17 year old boys are old enough to know better but young enough to think they're bulletproof. That's why they need guidance. That's why Nathan needs a coach who is going to put his foot down and say hey, I want your career to last a little longer than it will if this keeps up, let's dial it back.
 
Speaking of Nathan's quads, here's his FS. It's a bit hard to get an impression because there was a long delay after his music stopped, but it looks like he landed 4Z and 4F without falling.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1DZXBH5sVa4

I wonder if Dave Lease will notice that on crossovers he pumps a bit like Adam.
 
karne said:
Then Rafael is an idiot. As the coach of a young skater it is his JOB to make sure that young skater is kept under control. It is his RESPONSIBILITY to make sure Nathan is being sensible about his training. This kid had major hip surgery EIGHT MONTHS AGO. Doing a quad flip AND a quad Lutz in a short program IS REALLY BLOODY STUPID.

Nathan is a 17 year old boy. 17 year old boys are old enough to know better but young enough to think they're bulletproof. That's why they need guidance. That's why Nathan needs a coach who is going to put his foot down and say hey, I want your career to last a little longer than it will if this keeps up, let's dial it back.
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Agreed.

At first, I thought Raf was trolling and winking when he said in his interview last year, it's not my job to make sure that Nathan doesn't overtrain, I'm not his parent. If he really meant it, well, shaking my head. I sure wouldn't let Raf coach my teenager.

In the US of A, in most places, you are a minor under your parents' control (unless you are emancipated) until you are 18. The reason he is a minor is that folks older, and supposedly wiser, are charged with making sure he does not jump off a building and with making sure he knows that a gold medal is a shiny bauble not worth your health.

Of course a 16 or 17 year old boy, and he is still a boy, thinks he can jump tall buildings in a single bound. And doesn't care if he can't walk at 40. 40, what's that, old age? I gotta gold medal on my mind, baby, let's go! The adults in the room are supposed to stop him.

That Nathan is trying these jumps, given his injury history, it is *scary*. And scary ain't impressive, scary is just scary....
 
tavi... said:
the truth is, we don't really know what the situation is with nathan. We don't know if it was raf's idea for nathan to compete two new quads, or if he was against it and overruled by nathan (or nathan and his parents). For all we know, nathan may have been told by a pt or doctor at the oly training center that his hip is completely healed or that falling on a 4z or 4f is much less harmful to his hip than executing a 4s (unlikely, but who knows). Or he may just be extremely competitive and very headstrong. Only time will tell.
Click to expand...

amen say it again for the people in the back
 
mrrice said:
Oh Karne...........I swear sometimes that you can read my mind. What are they thinking? It hasn't even been a year since he had surgery, has it? Why do they have him training a quad Lutz this soon. At least they took out the groin killing quad Sal. We're talking about his SP, right? Give him a quad toe and work on his "Artistry" or lack there of. Good grief he is only 17years old. With the strength of the US Men, he's not going to win a "Jump Off" with the current field. Max, Adam, Ross, Jason, and Grant, all have quads and are better performers than Nathan. Before they injure him beyond repair, I think they should pull back a bit on the quads and let him grow as an artist.'

I sound harsh but, I'm really concerned. I trust Raf as he's done such a good job with Adam and Ashley. I wonder if Raf is getting pushed by Nathan to keep the quads in place. When I was young, I was really into trying the hardest tricks but, once you have a serious hip injury, you have to protect your body. Hopefully he'll bounce back quickly and have a good free program.
Click to expand...

When did Adam or Jason ever land a quad in competition? I know they're both working on them and Adam has been trying the quad lutz for several seasons. It's quite possible I missed it.
 
I'm a fan of ross miner and nathan chen. I really hope that nathan makes a splash this season. Could he be the USFSA new favorite? They're focused on Mac and Jason right now, so I'm not sure yet.
Could adam do well on the GP this season? Honestly, that is a huge question mark.
Will Max's lion king program be a star-maker?
And of course, can the US men get 3 spots for the Olympics???? The biggest concern for me on that question is consistency. The US men have SO much talent, but lack consistency.
 
ssffww said:
When did Adam or Jason ever land a quad in competition? I know they're both working on them and Adam has been trying the quad lutz for several seasons. It's quite possible I missed it.
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Adam did land two rotated but negative GOE 4Ts at NHK in I think 2013... that is the only in competition quads either have landed. The best Jason or Adam have done with the 4Z (or any quad for Jason) is a UR but not fall.

That being said...the only report from practice in Italy is that Jason did at least land a rotated but messy 4T in practice.

edit: positive was negative in this case... sorry.
 
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StitchMonkey said:
Adam did land two rotated but positive GOE 4Ts at NHK in I think 2013... that is the only in competition quads either have landed. The best Jason or Adam have done with the 4Z (or any quad for Jason) is a UR but not fall.

That being said...the only report from practice in Italy is that Jason did at least land a rotated but messy 4T in practice.
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Thanks!!
 
I was impressed with Vincent at the Junior Grand Prix in Japan. He already looks more grown up in appearance and style.

Here’s his Free Skate. Some problems, but still :clap: He finished second, 226.39, behind Jun Hwan CHA(KOR) 239.47.

Grant’s short at Lombardia was nice (except for the popped 3-axel) - potential there. Not sure about Jason and Max. Jason has a new Sam Smith program which was soso with a failed quad and Max’s prerformance was uninspiring. I thought Max was going to nail his short as it was the same Nessun Dorma. Maybe something bothering him(outside of the rink?) Let’s see tomorrow. GO US boys!
 
Oh nooooooooo, Max looks rusty in September? Oh nooooooooooooo, the sky is falling. :rolleye:
 
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