2016 Canadian Nationals Senior Men FS

[skatetalent]

Skate Canada has always wanted to have Liam as 2nd Patrick.
Nationals 2014 , Nam did clean both solos included 3 triple axels, Liam did none of triple axels but judges boost him up by huge margin PCS to ensure he made to Olympic team.
Every time Nam and Liam faced off Nam received the PCS matched with his international scores, Liam get 10 more points in short and 15 to 20 more points in long compared to his international scores.
This sport is human judged not clock/ watch judged.
Nam's scores are consistent in term of nationals, and international.
The 17 years old has been struggled, he will learn and come back stronger by his ability

 

[jlmart]

Tracey said Nam is suffering from a growth spurt this season that has affected his consistency. He hasn't quite settled into his new body yet. I am sure he will have a much better season next year. I can well believe it is very frustrating for him but he is still very young.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

:sad21::sad21::sad21:

I still can't believe what happened - I can't imagine worlds without spicy little Nam. Stupid growing pains and stupid falling on quads :sad4:

And with all due respect, but I can't agree with Liam getting assigned to worlds without even a skate-off between him and Kevin at 4CC. It's not even about the 3rd spot (though I would have really hoped Canada would get it), or about Kevin having the better track record internationally. Liam ended up ahead of Kevin, but IMO there is no way that was a convincing 2nd place with any real advantage over Kevin overall. And there's reason enough to doubt the placements to begin with. So if you have the opportunity to see for a 2nd time who's more deserving at 4CC, take it

Nam should skate for Vietnam with the way SC treats him, lol. (kidding, but only a little bit)

Since I'm with the people thinking Nam was flat out dumped, yes, why not. Skate for Vietnam and please make it to all the galas then, especially at Skate Canada :handw:


And on a not-bitter note: big congrats to Patrick for his 8th nationals title with 2 satisfying skates! And to Liam and Kevin, again especially to Kevin for coming back as well as he did!

 

[kresslia]

Nam SP PCS Skate Canada: 36.83
Nam SP PCS Nationals: 37.71

Liam Firus SP PCS Finlandia Trophy (since he wasn't even on the GP circuit this season): 35.16
Liam Firus SP PCS Nationals: 39.29

Nam FS PCS Skate Canada: 75.86
Nam FS PCS Nationals: 76.06

Liam Firus FS PCS Finlandia Trophy: 70.76
Liam Firus FS PCS Nationals: 85.64

Sorry, this is a disgrace. The FS in particular is absolutely ridiculous. SC did everything they could to prop him up, he'll get destroyed internationally.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Kevin's progress is really impressive. I hope he's a contending quad master again by next season. Stay healthy, Kevin. And best of luck.

Skate Canada really doesn't have definitive best choices this year other than Patrick who is showing a good progress since his comeback and is a legit Worlds contender. Kevin's progress is not near complete and he has had very little competition experience, none international, since returning this season from injuries and other issues. Nam is brilliant and very consistent throughout his skating career since a tiny kid, except during times of growth spurt which unfortunately he has to deal with currently. Now, would it be wise or even justifiable to send Nadeau or Balde, both very charming and entertaining, to Worlds?

Liam is the legit choice this year based on his and all others' performances and immediate prospects.

 

[kresslia]

Liam is the legit choice this year based on his and all others' performances and immediate prospects.

He's been putting up 60s in the SP and 130s in the FS internationally this year. I don't understand this. 40 points lower than what Nam in his "sophomore slump" has been putting up.

I know I'm coming off harsh, I just think this is such a stupid decision, straight up.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I know I'm coming off harsh, I just think this is such a stupid decision, straight up.

Stupid performances leave SC no satisfying decision, just this stupid one.

 

[rain]

I can't believe how some people are going on about Firus's silver and assignment to worlds — as if he didn't earn it fair and square. He may not do well at worlds. But I wouldn't bet on Nam or Reynolds to do any better at this point. Nam has not had a good year internationally. He would struggle to get top 10. Who knows where Reynolds would be? His saving grace has always been his technical content (when it's on and not downgraded) and he didn't have it here to the level he needs to do decently with his limited PCS potential. Firus at least went out there and landed a quad, which was progress for him. It's certainly not his fault that his competitors didn't take it away from him. Long-term my money's still on Nam. But he desperately needs to address his painfully lacking basic skating.

 

[jersey1302]

I personally like Liam over Nam. I like Liams presence on the ice alot more than Nam. Liam finally got his quad out in the FP..really good to see him land it. Nam did not have a good nationals. In this competition I think Liam deserved the upper hand on this one. Liam received presentation marks all between 8.00 and 9.00 points from every judge while Man had between 7.25 and 8.25. Nam had a negative 3 GOE on his first 2 jumping passes across the board but leveled out to mostly positive GOEs after that.

As for another note.. Patricks score sheet.. wow.. his composition scores :

Skating Skills 2.00 9.75 9.75 9.75 10.00 9.75 9.75 9.50 9.75 9.75 - - - 19.50
Transition/Linking Footwork 2.00 9.75 9.75 9.50 9.50 9.50 9.75 9.50 9.50 9.75 - - - 19.22
Performance/Execution 2.00 9.75 9.50 9.75 9.50 9.50 9.75 9.50 10.00 9.50 - - - 19.22
Choreography/Composition 2.00 10.00 9.75 10.00 10.00 10.00 10.00 10.00 9.75 10.00 - - - 19.92
Interpretation of the Music/Timing 2.00 10.00 9.75 10.00 10.00 10.00 10.00 10.00 9.75 9.75 - - - 19.86

Some huge marks there. no surprise as they always are but that was great. His technical scores were good too. Alot of plus grades of execution except on his 2F which was in the negatives. His 4T 3T received +3 GOE meanwhile his 3A was 0 or +1 depending on the judge.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I'm going to be the first to say in in this thread, but I realized the last time Kevin went to the 4CC, which was in 2013, he won....sorry I had to point that out.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I'm going to be the first to say in in this thread, but I realized the last time Kevin went to the 4CC, which was in 2013, he won....sorry I had to point that out.

And his best was at the Olympic Team event though he was robbed because it was decided Plushenko had to win. But these glories were before his boot problems and injuries. He has been inconsistent and then away. He is definitely not back to his own standard yet.

 

[cheerknithanson]

And his best was at the Olympic Team event though he was robbed because it was decided Plushenko had to win. But these glories were before his boot problems and injuries. He has been inconsistent and then away. He is definitely not back to his own standard yet.

That's true. But he still had boot problems at the Olympics. You're right about that he's not up to par yet to where he was, but it's coming slowly. Will he win, probably not. But I hope it'll give him some technical minimums for a few years to come.

 

[Skater Boy]

Kevin's progress is really impressive. I hope he's a contending quad master again by next season. Stay healthy, Kevin. And best of luck.

Skate Canada really doesn't have definitive best choices this year other than Patrick who is showing a good progress since his comeback and is a legit Worlds contender. Kevin's progress is not near complete and he has had very little competition experience, none international, since returning this season from injuries and other issues. Nam is brilliant and very consistent throughout his skating career since a tiny kid, except during times of growth spurt which unfortunately he has to deal with currently. Now, would it be wise or even justifiable to send Nadeau or Balde, both very charming and entertaining, to Worlds?

Liam is the legit choice this year based on his and all others' performances and immediate prospects.

I know you try to do a principled approach but the international scores and Liam's lack of ability to do big jumps even compared to a recovering (very quickly) Reynolds is almost embarrassing. And he is not of the pc level of Chan of course. In competitions where Liam is competing against Nam or Reynolds other than nationals he loses to them and is not even considered a threat - in fact other than sadly his family and immediate circle he is not even on the radar to the rest of the world (sorry that sounds harsh) The issue is what is best for Canada versus well I still think they marked Liam too generously - remember there is a tie usually tech with pcs - look at hanyu - imho he should be lower than Chan still even a bit but now he is ahead and by a fair amount.

 

[peg]

I do understand Why Liam was selected for Worlds and not Kevin....and it has to do with TES minimum.

I still think they should have waited until after 4CC to announce the Worlds team. Kevin is likely to get minimum TES there.

Basically SC has just decided they don't want three spots for men next year. What worries me with Liam is that now, not even two spots are a given. Liam came 28th at the Olympics. That kind of showing would bring Canada down to 1 spot. Can you imagine Canada down to one spot for the Worlds that determine the # of Olympic spots? Seriously, Liam's PB internationally is 200.27 from Finlandia. I hope he skates better than that at Worlds, but based on track record, I'm very worried

 

[cheerknithanson]

I still think they should have waited until after 4CC to announce the Worlds team. Kevin is likely to get minimum TES there.

Basically SC has just decided they don't want three spots for men next year. What worries me with Liam is that now, not even two spots are a given. Liam came 28th at the Olympics. That kind of showing would bring Canada down to 1 spot. Can you imagine Canada down to one spot for the Worlds that determine the # of Olympic spots? Seriously, Liam's PB internationally is 200.27 from Finlandia. I hope he skates better than that at Worlds, but based on track record, I'm very worried

And I totally agree they should wait until after the 4CC to decide. And the 4CC will be a nice competition to go to since the last time Kevin went, he won. Granted, Patrick wasn't there and he was at his peak at the time. But the point is, he is very likely to get technical minimums there.

I am worried just as much as you are. I want to tell Skate Canada something about this, but I'm sure they're going to ignore me.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Re the 2 spots: if Liam doesn't make the LP, he gets 18 "points", not his direct placements. Since the sum of both skaters needs to be 28 or less, Patrick needs to make top 10. I don't think Patrick is capable of placing outside of the top 10.

So the 2nd spot should be safe (unless I really messed up of course )

 

[peg]

I am worried just as much as you are. I want to tell Skate Canada something about this, but I'm sure they're going to ignore me.

Yeah, I don't exactly have any pull with SC either. Darn

 

[peg]

Re the 2 spots: if Liam doesn't make the LP, he gets 18 "points", not his direct placements. Since the sum of both skaters needs to be 28 or less, Patrick needs to make top 10. I don't think Patrick is capable of placing outside of the top 10.

So the 2nd spot should be safe (unless I really messed up of course )

Oh, thanks for that info. I knew that anyone who made the FS got 16 points, but didn't realize those who didn't only got 2 extra points. Yes, that means the second spot is safe. But there's essentially no chance at 3 spots, whereas with another skater there would have been a decent shot at that.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Oh, thanks for that info. I knew that anyone who made the FS got 16 points, but didn't realize those who didn't only got 2 extra points. Yes, that means the second spot is safe. But there's essentially no chance at 3 spots, whereas with another skater there would have been a decent shot at that.

Probably true

 

[SarahSynchro]

So what would happen if Patrick is on the world podium? Could that in itself earn three spots? Or does it all depend on where Liam finishes?

I'm surprised too that the world team was announced already, I thought for sure they'd wait until after 4CC.