2016 Four Continents Free Dance

[oat]

I thought Maia and Alex did what they needed to win, and they deserved the victory, although maybe not by as much as they won by. Their program is engaging and emotional and provides a great platform for the two of them. However, looking towards Worlds, the results at this 4CC only seems to strengthen P/C's case for defending the title. Had WeaPo had a decisive victory, maybe they could present a challenge at Worlds. Either way, I think the choreography and beauty of Papadakis and Cizeron's skating are really heads and shoulders above any team in the world right now. If you haven't seen their free skate this year, I recommend you take a look -- truly breathtaking. Maia and Alex are energetic, focused, and engaging, but Papadakis and Cizeron are mind-blowing, exquisite, graceful, and effortless.

We never know with the judges. Maybe some judges don't like P/C style (contemporary dance, no acrobatic lift, and their unique style that now nobody can do) and could prefer Shibu or W/P.
Their SD is their weakness. They started with a big disadvantage (and we often forget this one) like the commentator said : they didn't have the opportunity to have the feedback from the judges, to grow, improve their SD, to bring changes. Their competitors could skate more than 6/7 times and more. I hope two months will be enought for them to catch up.

 

[cocotaffy]

Hope so too, I think the team must have learnt from last year's World. They can't always come back to win from the 4th place, esp. this year where the competition is so much tougher and not on neutral ground, I may add. Hopefully, they'll hit all their levels esp. the step sequence and improve their GOE compared to Euros. They need to be between 72 and 73 like shibs, W/P, C/L and probably C/B who I doubt will repeat the disastrous perf at 4 CCs. Let's see, the judges seem to be reluctant with the moderne spin on the SD even though H/D's good SD results here give me hope.

 

[matcha]

Re-watching Chock/Bates I'm not the biggest fan of their free, it's just much of the same and Evan arms flailing about (would love to see a programme choreographed by someone that isn't Igor...) But boy, their circular step sequence is great and goes with the music perfectly. More of that, guys!!

 

[Ice Dance]

Re-watching Chock/Bates (would love to see a programme choreographed by someone that isn't Igor...) But boy, their circular step sequence is great and goes with the music perfectly.

The program was choreographed by Najarro, who did--IMO--quite a great job. The potential at the beginning of the season was there. The problem is that Igor tinkers and scrapped a lot of the relationship & nuances from the initial version. (Likely in response to Sinitsina & Katsalapov's surprise edge in TES at Skate America and then Cappellini & Lanotte at CoC and now . . . it looks like a generic C&B Shpilband program. Igor needs a choreographer. It doesn't have to be Zoueva, but it needs to be someone who has enough of a say within the rink that he/she can stand up and say, "No. You cannot throw out this choreographic moment. You cannot move this element over there because the correct note of the MUSIC is here, etc. And you cannot give Madison all the choreography. There needs to be balance in order to portray a believable relationship on the ice. I like the final lift and the build in the power of the music toward the end; but the nuances, balance, and chance for developing a relationship within the program feel lost to me.

 

[katha]

The program was choreographed by Najarro, who did--IMO--quite a great job. The potential at the beginning of the season was there. The problem is that Igor tinkers and scrapped a lot of the relationship & nuances from the initial version. (Likely in response to Sinitsina & Katsalapov's surprise edge in TES at Skate America and then Cappellini & Lanotte at CoC and now . . . it looks like a generic C&B Shpilband program. Igor needs a choreographer. It doesn't have to be Zoueva, but it needs to be someone who has enough of a say within the rink that he/she can stand up and say, "No. You cannot throw out this choreographic moment. You cannot move this element over there because the correct note of the MUSIC is here, etc. And you cannot give Madison all the choreography. There needs to be balance in order to portray a believable relationship on the ice. I like the final lift and the build in the power of the music toward the end; but the nuances, balance, and chance for developing a relationship within the program feel lost to me.

I don't even think the problem is that Shpilband can't see what works best for the program. He after all put together Punsalan/Swallow's Oblivion, and the way the step sequence in the SD for C/B blends in so flawlessly into the program is also on him. It's just that ultimately, technique for him takes over. He saw that they constantly dropped levels in the FD. That had to be addressed, so he staged an intervention. It's still a struggle on that front in the steps, but in the old version they were getting level 2s, that would have absolutely murdered them going forward. But then, I also think the version at 4CC is the best version so far. It's a good compromise of making it competitive while still maintaining mood and general vision of the piece. It was clear that the version at Nebelhorn was not sustainable. I don't know how much input into the FD Najarro ultimately had, but IMO one problem that also cropped up with I/Z's Frida is that he puts in dance moves that make sense for a routine on the dance floor but aren't always ideal translated to the ice.

 

[Ice Dance]

There's no such thing as a perfect debut program. But you can't forfeit the essence & soul of the program for the technique. You have to find a way to make both grow together.

 

[katha]

The thing is: The judges like Rach, they have been getting consistently high PCS for it. I like Rach, I think it's a lovely program. So not everyone thinks it's a soulless Frankenstein monster now. They still aren't hitting all the levels on the TES side, though it's gotten better. While the SD, a Shpilband piece, has been doing better as long as they didn't make mistakes (which they've done quite a bit this season, unfortunately). So it's kind of hard to blame Shpilband for completely restructuring the piece IMO. They took a risk with going to Najarro, someone who IMO doesn't always quite know how to make things work on ice (though I'm still not sure how much input he had. Shpilband is listed as sole choreographer) and it was a good decision to take that risk, I still think so, and now apparently they're doing extensive damage control. They're currently losing on the FD because of technique, ironically. It's improving, but still not where it needs to be. When Pechalat/Bourzat did the Little Prince, he didn't stage interventions like that. Far as I remember, he mostly left it intact because it wasn't throwing up so many issues.

 

[Giselle]

IIRC Igor mentionned that the C/B's FD at Nebelhorn was already heavily modified. I don't think we ever really saw Najarro's version of their FD.

 

[humbaba]

They took a risk with going to Najarro, someone who IMO doesn't always quite know how to make things work on ice

I've had similar thoughts myself. I remember at the start of the season how hopeful I/Z fans were about Najarro doing their programs, especially the "Frida" FD. Then neither of the programs was especially well received by the judges.

I love the exhibition number Rohene Ward did for C/B this season. I would love to see him try his hand at a competition program for Madison and Evan.

 

[machin]

Pretty sure that in only one of those instances did V/M resume the program -- as permitted by the referee.

In the other instance, they stopped the program mid-way -- and then decided to withdraw (without any attempt to resume the program, IIRC). 2011 Four Continents, IIRC?

Twice it was and they broke the rules because you have to go to the referee and not your coach first ! All Canton cheat here because the Shib did it too at 2012 COR. Plus at 2013 FCC they stopped because they couldn't do the big lift (pts, pts) and redid it when resuming the program. It was counted...

 

[ice coverage]

Twice it was and they broke the rules because you have to go to the referee and not your coach first ! All Canton cheat here because the Shib did it too at 2012 COR. Plus at 2013 FCC they stopped because they couldn't do the big lift (pts, pts) and redid it when resuming the program. It was counted...

If you don't like how the referees handled these situations, then it is the referees whom you should be blaming. Not the skaters.

Per the referees, no cheating took place.

 

[rosacotton]

What a great competition we got in the free!

Shibutanis -- They weren't as free and relaxed here as compared to Nationals, likely due to their being the unexpected leaders. However, unlike CoC last year where they were first after the SD and ended up losing to the French, here they did not let nerves get the best of them and skated very well. Congratulations to Maia and Alex for the convincing win. There is still room to improve. I'll be rooting for them to sneak onto the podium in Boston.

Chock/Bates -- After a disappointing short, C/B delivered a wonderful Rach performance. I'm not a huge fan of this program -- maybe it is because I associate this music with Josh Farris's mesmerizing long program he had during his last two seasons in juniors; or perhaps because this is a romantic piece yet I feel Madi and Evan are giving me sexiness instead of romance. But kudos to them for fighting back and medaling.

Weaver/Poje -- This was simply not their night. While I really like the costumes, music, and parts of the choreography are stunning, I'm on the fence with this program. I think a lot of it has to do with the concept. While W/P and commentators have explained it, I am unable to see it on the ice. It is elegant and very "artsy" (like last year's Four Seasons), but I don't get it. My favorite programs of theirs are María de Buenos Aires and Je Suis Malade, skates that were about passion and fitted them like a glove IMHO. Andrew and Kaitlyn going the More-Art-Than-Thou route now doesn't seem to fit naturally for them. Despite not winning 4CCs, I still see them as the co-favorites with the French for the World title.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I think a lot of teams took out dancing in their step sequences in order to show off their edges to get that level 4. The CBC commentators mentioned that.

 

[Astrid56]

Regarding Chock/Bates' step sequence, Charlie White noted on how great their execution of this element which, to quote him, was "really enhanced by the music ... their ability to hit the notes ... the ease with which they transfer their weight, [and] their partnering skills ... a real highlight when it comes to step sequences". Interestingly, it was just given a level 3 by the judges. Hmmm, well, scores are very relative ... and a matter of preference. Scoring for them, this season, was all over the place - somewhat erratic. Of course, with this piece’s musical rhythm/pattern (I think Igor noted he had to make some changes/adjustments for it to work), it is a bit challenging. The piece would suit the other disciplines -_Pairs and Singles very well: the requirements of ice-dancing present a challenge. Ice-dancers are required to dance to the music with steady and specific beat/rhythm/tempo and are judged on the precision of their footwork _ the quality of their edges.

I think the latest version of their ever-changing/growing FD is the best although I preferred the mood/feeling generated by the first version (done in Nebelhorn). I’d like them to nuance, choreographically, a bit more the different parts of the program but, I suppose, that will take more time.

 

[lauravvv]

SK's and IZ's limiting factors could simply be Nikita and Elena...ironic...LOL LOL... who have continued their streaks of error prone performances even with new partners... heartbreaking, honestly... as I like IZ and SK impressed me with their improvement from the disaster last year...

I don't know what you have been watching. Nikita has made only one serious mistake this season (at Nationals). I/Z's crucial mistake at Nationals was Ruslan falling. It was Ruslan who had the twizzle mistake at the Mordovian Trophy, and again Ruslan who botched the twizzles in the Cup of Russia SD. I am pretty sure that it was Ruslan's mistake that cost them a level on the Cup of China FD curve lift. They also got level 2 for their step sequence there, but, from what I remember, it was not clearly visible whose mistake cost them that level. So the mistake was not huge in any case. I am not blaming Ruslan (I think those were nerves that caused his mistakes), just saying that Elena did not really make any serious mistakes this season, so people like you who are blaming her for the "streak of error prone performances" should check the facts first.

 

[jersey1302]

What a great competition we got in the free!

Shibutanis -- They weren't as free and relaxed here as compared to Nationals, likely due to their being the unexpected leaders. However, unlike CoC last year where they were first after the SD and ended up losing to the French, here they did not let nerves get the best of them and skated very well. Congratulations to Maia and Alex for the convincing win. There is still room to improve. I'll be rooting for them to sneak onto the podium in Boston.

Chock/Bates -- After a disappointing short, C/B delivered a wonderful Rach performance. I'm not a huge fan of this program -- maybe it is because I associate this music with Josh Farris's mesmerizing long program he had during his last two seasons in juniors; or perhaps because this is a romantic piece yet I feel Madi and Evan are giving me sexiness instead of romance. But kudos to them for fighting back and medaling.

Weaver/Poje -- This was simply not their night. While I really like the costumes, music, and parts of the choreography are stunning, I'm on the fence with this program. I think a lot of it has to do with the concept. While W/P and commentators have explained it, I am unable to see it on the ice. It is elegant and very "artsy" (like last year's Four Seasons), but I don't get it. My favorite programs of theirs are María de Buenos Aires and Je Suis Malade, skates that were about passion and fitted them like a glove IMHO. Andrew and Kaitlyn going the More-Art-Than-Thou route now doesn't seem to fit naturally for them. Despite not winning 4CCs, I still see them as the co-favorites with the French for the World title.

Ya this was definately not Weaver and Poje's night. A lot went wrong and I am going to agree with you about being on the fence with this program. I dont know weather I like it or not. It doesn't seem to grab me all the time. I get it but I just dont think its for me. The music I think I just dont connect with. I have liked it more in certain competition than others.. Maybe I just have to be in the mood for it lol. I do however LOVE the Shibs FP .. that is their vehicle to win worlds.

 

[deedee1]

The gropu 1-3. Again i LOVED Min/Gamelin & Lee/Kam! And a great come back in the free dance by Kim/Minov. Suddenly Korea has such depth in ice dance heading into 2018. How nice! Hopefully Japan can send three teams in the near future, too.

Wang/Liu was great, too. What I liked is Liu didn't look too tall with her this time, thanks to the color, upper body design and thick volume of his costume. But >< at their acrobatic lift. Might be good level-wise, but wasn't very pretty to the eyes. Liu lifted her up as if he cut a fir tree for Christmas and carried it on his shoulder to go home...

Now I can see WHY Emi/Marien's TES low again; the program itself is too difficult and step sqs are too complicated/too fast in tempo for them, thus resulted incorrect edges and low in levels, I guess... I love the fact and appreciate it a lot that Olivier is their coach and choreographer, but he should realize they aren't in the level of the likes of, say, Olivier once was with Isabelle... My question, however, which one is the weaker of the two; Emi or Marien? Oh, and why Marien always wears such costume like workman's shirt and trousers rusted with paints? deserves BETTER costume; such as http://www.gettyimages.co.jp/detail...er-and-andrew-poje-of-canada-ニュース写真/463332260 :luv17:, or http://www.gettyimages.co.jp/detail...ins-gold-during-the-mens-free-ニュース写真/52440366 :luv17:, or http://www.gettyimages.co.jp/detail...tes-in-the-mens-free-program-ニュース写真/187450159 :luv17:.
That's my conclusion, sadly, after I watched another almost clean skate by Kana/Chris where they got very descent, so to speak, levels and PCS for their ability, esp. considering they are a new team and Kana's been an ice dancer for only 2-3 years. I think Marina and Massimo Scali have been doing a great job so far for helping this newly teamed-up to flourish on the int'l scene, with well constructed programs that are not at all super complicated/difiicult but doable for them to execute. :yes:

Another unique program from Piper/Paul. I'm a fan of this team ever since I saw their Hitchcock free at NHK live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSHMDIFL1so. But my impression overall on this season's free is it lakcs a bit of high-lights. or, is it just because I am so used to expecting something original and interesting from them all the time? Probably so. For a change, I want to see them skate for once to an ordinary/warehouse music before the Olympic season. Their rather low TES again here is worrisome.

The last group.
My jaws drop every time I see Madison/Zach do twizzles at the beginning. What ice coverage during the first twizzles. They have very nice progrmas thanks to Marie and Patrice. :yes: 3rd in SD, another 3rd in FD here, breaking their previous PBs again and again at competitions they enter. Such a break thru season for them indeed.

Good for The Shibs for winning here, proving themselves in front of int'l judges that it wasn't a fluke at US Nats! :hap93: I thought they skated a bit cautiously, compared at the Nats, though. I laways love reactions from the crowds on their out-of-this-world twizzles that go very well with the music.

After disappointing SD results, Madison/Evan was on fire in FD. I feel bad for them to have lost again to the Shibs. In spite of their great Free, int'l judges didn't take it as it seems...

Was Andrew injured or something? They lacked their usual speed, power and sparks in the free... Their chance to win the world title seems a bit of a long shot now? I am so sad if so;;;; :sad4: I hope they will get back to their form by the Worlds.