2016 Skate Canada Men's LP

[begin]

i think his first two jumping passes were very good... air position, distance and height. Textbook jumps. Why not + GOE? Judges all agreed here...

The jumps themselves were great but entry and exit lacked difficulty/transitions. Quad combo and axel should've +2.00 and +1.00 respectively, imo.

 

[begin]

That 4t+3t in particular were spectacular. It really doesn't get much more textbook than that. The 3a, which he does sometimes struggle on, was, in fact, gorgeous here. If you want to choose some of his jumps to pick on, these were a bad choice.

He had no steps/transitions going in and out of either jumps. I can live with the 3A (which took a very long setup) but +3.00 GOE for the quad is pretty excessive.

 

[da96103]

I see. So if both jumps of the same jump are solo jumps. The second jump gets 70% BV but does not use up a combo jumping pass.

So theoretically a skater can do a program like this:

4T
4T 70%
4S
4S 70%
3A + 3T
3Lz + 2T
3F + 1Lo + 3S
3Lo

Actually I am thinking the rule benefits the skater to do two solo 4S or 4T if he is already doing two 3A.

Compare a layout like this

4T
4T 70%
4S
3A
3A + 3T
3Lz + 2T
3F + 1Lo + 3S
3Lo

with

4T
3Lz
4S
3A
3A + 3T
3Lz + 2T
3F + 1Lo + 3S
3Lo

70% 4T (7.21) is higher than 100% 3Lz (6.00)

So lesson to learn is if a skater can do a very good 4T but some reason cannot tag a clean 2T to it, still do a second solo 4T instead of a second 3Lz

 

[TGee]

I see. So if both jumps of the same jump are solo jumps. The second jump gets 70% BV but does not use up a combo jumping pass.

So theoretically a skater can do a program like this:

4T
4T 70%
4S
4S 70%
3A + 3T
3Lz + 2T
3F + 1Lo + 3S
3Lo

While that would just hit the maximum number of allowed jumping passes for the FS under the well balanced program requirements [8 jump elements], it would not maximize the potential for them....So possible, doesn't mean a good strategy...

By the way, I have a theory that Kevin Reynolds, who seems to be able to produce 3Lo s out of nowhere, saves his second 3Lo for this kind of situation.

That is, I suspect that he has a plan to use that 3Lo if he misses one of his other combos... It's a jump that can be added on to other jumps without the need for intervening steps... Provided that you can produce the height and rotations with no momentum going into the jump, even when tired, which he seems able to do...

Which makes me suspect that Kevin will not be long in producing a 4Lo...

 

[4everchan]

that's why you're not a judge your score would have been thrown out

The jumps themselves were great but entry and exit lacked difficulty/transitions. Quad combo and axel should've +2.00 and +1.00 respectively, imo.

 

[begin]

that's why you're not a judge your score would have been thrown out

No need to be passive aggressive, I did say 'imo'.

 

[4everchan]

While that would just hit the maximum number of allowed jumping passes for the FS under the well balanced program requirements [8 jump elements], it would not maximize the potential for them....So possible, doesn't mean a good strategy...

By the way, I have a theory that Kevin Reynolds, who seems to be able to produce 3Lo s out of nowhere, saves his second 3Lo for this kind of situation.

That is, I suspect that he has a plan to use that 3Lo if he misses one of his other combos... It's a jump that can be added on to other jumps without the need for intervening steps... Provided that you can produce the height and rotations with no momentum going into the jump, even when tired, which he seems able to do...

Which makes me suspect that Kevin will not be long in producing a 4Lo...

he was attempting them in previous seasons

 

[TGee]

Actually I am thinking the rule benefits the skater to do two solo 4S or 4T if he is already doing two 3A.

Compare a layout like this

4T
4T 70%
4S
3A
3A + 3T
3Lz + 2T
3F + 1Lo + 3S
3Lo

with

4T
3Lz
4S
3A
3A + 3T
3Lz + 2T
3F + 1Lo + 3S
3Lo

70% 4T (7.21) is higher than 100% 3Lz (6.00)

So lesson to learn is if a skater can do a very good 4T but some reason cannot tag a clean 1T to it, still do a second solo 4T instead of a second 3Lz[/QUOTE]

Interesting....especially as for some skaters doing both a triple and a quad of the same jump can mess up the triple... So, it would be safe to just to the quad twice.

But I would put money on a zayak rule analogue showing up if someone used this excessively. I suspect the rule is intended to not overpenalize skaters who miss the later elements in a combo..;;

 

[4everchan]

i was smiling

No need to be passive aggressive, I did say 'imo'.

 

[amc987]

Hanyu should've won here. His long program was more than 11 points better than Chan's. Much more interesting and exciting and it seemed less marred by the mistakes Yuzu had on the quads. Chan had so many mistakes doubling/ tripling out and those mistakes dragged down the quality of everything else he did, which tends happen when one skates imperfectly to softer music. I do enjoy the music and the choreo generally (even though it can feel a bit monotonous), but 91+ PCS for that is outrageous.

 

[chairmanmao]

I found Chan's performance flat and uninspiring which was exacerbated by the equally monotonous music choice. Some of the jump GOE's of Chan baffled me but I can't say I'm surprised. Let's just say each time Chan miraculously lands a 3A it automatically receives 2's and 3's. In fact that kind of quality on a 3A would be lucky to receive 1's if landed by other skaters.

 

[Lenny318]

Me too. Everyone should skate to Final Fantasy.

Or Kingdom Hearts to celebrate its 15th Anniversary

 

[NAOTMAA]

Hanyu should've won here. His long program was more than 11 points better than Chan's. Much more interesting and exciting and it seemed less marred by the mistakes Yuzu had on the quads. Chan had so many mistakes doubling/ tripling out and those mistakes dragged down the quality of everything else he did, which tends happen when one skates imperfectly to softer music. I do enjoy the music and the choreo generally (even though it can feel a bit monotonous), but 91+ PCS for that is outrageous.

True but I think Chan's SP was way more than 11 points better then Hanyu's. Chan won the SP and Hanyu the LP which is correct. So to me it all evened out in the end and was neck and neck. Either one winning because both parts put together neither were superior to the other :confused2: The big problem is BOTH were in one way or another, in SP or LP, overmarked.

 

[gravy]

I don't care if he loses, he lost Boston fair and square. But it sucks big time to lose like this. And that's Skate Chanada.

Seriously, why does Hanyu keep coming here? He needs a change. France is lovely. And he won't have to suffer this nonsense.

He should go back to China. Maybe he'll fall 5 times and win a silver medal there again.

Let's not pretend that only one skater gets the benefit of the doubt.

 

[TGee]

Hanyu should've won here. His long program was more than 11 points better than Chan's. Much more interesting and exciting and it seemed less marred by the mistakes Yuzu had on the quads. Chan had so many mistakes doubling/ tripling out and those mistakes dragged down the quality of everything else he did, which tends happen when one skates imperfectly to softer music. I do enjoy the music and the choreo generally (even though it can feel a bit monotonous), but 91+ PCS for that is outrageous.

How much "marred" seems a bit of a personal assessment....But it's important to keep in mind that this isn't 6.0 judging wherein "artistic impression" was tightly linked to technical performance. Under COP, TES is TES, and GOE is where the impact of a less than ideal freeskate element appears...

PCS has some very concrete things to be assessed and valued, particularly in the area of SS and TR, and even CO. Getting all the criteria vs. most of them makes the difference in these scores. If you feel strongly about this, and would like to understand why Patrick seems to score so highly, I'd encourage you to look at his program with the criteria checklists for these program components and see for yourself that his program built these in.

[BTW I would like to credit my understanding of this to a poster who demonstrated how Carolina Kostner's SS and TR merited higher marks because she managed to hit every single criteria for each regardless of how well her freeskate elements went.]


Here's the link again... Program Component Scoring is on pp. 78-80

http://static.isu.org/media/1003/20...ce-and-technical-rules-sandp-and-id_final.pdf

 

[treeloving]

I disagree with many of you, I think Yuzu's current program has much more potential than Seimei. It look a little bit more empty compare to his sp though. I wish Jeff could try to choreography his lp for once.

 

[happylife]

:agree: :agree: :agree:

that's why you're not a judge your score would have been thrown out

 

[sunnystars]

He should go back to China. Maybe he'll fall 5 times and win a silver medal there again.

Let's not pretend that only one skater gets the benefit of the doubt.

as mrrice said, KABOOOM

 

[lyndichee]

On a more positive note, during the medal ceremony while taking photos, Patrick and Kevin shared a Canadian flag so Yuzuru jokingly inched away from them because he had to hold a flag alone. When the photographer wanted them back together for a photo Yuzuru made a face and cautiously inched back towards them. It was so adorable.

Patrick gave away his bouquet to a lady who let him borrow her Canadian flag for photos. This lady also lent her flag to Meagan and Kaetlyn I believe.

 

[MeineKatze]

Haa! look at Yuzuru's GOE being full of 1s 0s and 2s when his jumps were on totally another league from the Canadian king who got bombarded with GOEs of 3 :shocked: lol they tried so hard to pull down his score, Chan definitely deserves higher PCS for his SS and Transitions but technically let's not pretend he's better than Yuzu!