Nathan attempted two quads, but they wasn't both clean, and 3A also with hand down so I don't think he was that much underscored. If he did it cleanly then he should lead, although looking at his 38 PCs vs almost 43 by Aaron maybe a bit, or rather Max given a bit inflation
2016 US Nationals Senior Men SP
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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- Nov 2, 2013
It's not only about quads, people. Yes, doing 2 quads is impressive, but that's not the only thing and Chen had many elements that weren't clean and his spin was a complete failure. These things add up. While doing quads is good and impressive, it shouldn't be the only thing that matters.
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- Dec 29, 2013
Bingo.
Though I prefer the pretty skating myself. Go figure.
Pun?
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- Aug 1, 2011
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- Dec 29, 2013
Do Casual viewers even exist in American skating anymore? How would they even see this event?
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- Feb 24, 2012
What stay vertical? Drop the mauve hair? Wear too tight pants that might be "illegal" to skate in? Wear deep v necks? Try to sell you are artistic by picking some warhorse classical music or opera?
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- Feb 24, 2012
Yep Max was missing five points as Diva Ashley points out and I know where they are - Gracie and her stole them!!! God Bless the USA!
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- Feb 24, 2012
We understood
I am guilty of struggling terms but those in the know know Glad you gave your two bits- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
It will be an exciting freeskate. I do like Max trying to push himself artistically and athletically though I think he has to be himself. I personally think Elvis was artistic in his own way and he was unfairly judged compared to the schmuck Candelero put up - who used personality to hide sloppy skating which was not as technically difficult as elvis. Chen is the future but skating is more than quads and I find his skating and quality a bit immature but I do think he will improve and is far stronger than say that Canadian boy (no not Patick Chan but the spindly growing Nam). Adam and Ross, Adam in particular are beautiful skaters with great quality and lilt. I do agree not sure if we can say Adam has the quad lutz. I am kind of disappointed Jason is petitioning to go to world's. It is horrible he is injured but not nerly as tragic as say Yuka and K and S. He had his chance and it is not like he has been dazzling the world this year or he was that amazing at world's last year - yes fourth but no medal and was in danger of being passed by a spindly teenager amongothers. He has no quad either yet I say let him stay home and watch world's tv. It sounds tough but I understand he is doing what is best for Jason (don't be fooled other wise folks). It is about self interest - that's life. I don't wish him bad or anything. I hope they will let those who make the team at Nationals to go. Great 4 skaters leading!!!
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- Mar 6, 2012
Just seeing this in Europe. The big news is that the top men skated their programs. They got all the good vibes that were left on the ice form the ladies the night before.
Aaron - glad he's skating well. He's the only US competitor that is reaonably sure of a top 10 finish at worlds.
Chen - Pretty mature looking skating, but it's all about the quads for him. If he skates them in FS it will be hard to deny a place on the world team. I hope his coaches protect him from the media hype. That can really unseat a 16 YO. (I think in some ways the media attention undermined Gold's career.) A concern is the injuries. Has he pushed too hard too soon? Shades of Tiffany Chin.
Dolensky - one high point of US skating has been the emergence of this lovely skater. Hoping he skates as he did at Skate Canada
Miner/Rippon - Scoring them based on the quality (Adam's messy 3-3 aside) goes against the current trend in Int'l scoring which is mostly based on jumping. I don't mind US figure skating reminding that figure skating is not just jumping and cramming as much stuff in a program as possible.
Aaron - glad he's skating well. He's the only US competitor that is reaonably sure of a top 10 finish at worlds.
Chen - Pretty mature looking skating, but it's all about the quads for him. If he skates them in FS it will be hard to deny a place on the world team. I hope his coaches protect him from the media hype. That can really unseat a 16 YO. (I think in some ways the media attention undermined Gold's career.) A concern is the injuries. Has he pushed too hard too soon? Shades of Tiffany Chin.
Dolensky - one high point of US skating has been the emergence of this lovely skater. Hoping he skates as he did at Skate Canada
Miner/Rippon - Scoring them based on the quality (Adam's messy 3-3 aside) goes against the current trend in Int'l scoring which is mostly based on jumping. I don't mind US figure skating reminding that figure skating is not just jumping and cramming as much stuff in a program as possible.
Pretty frustrated once again by the scoring but for different reasons than most.
Aaron - overscored. In my opinion, his interpretation score should be the lowest of those in the top 6. Yes, he has certainly improved, but the PCS must reflect how well he did in relation to others, not in relation to his own baseline. Not sure in what universe his interpretation is better than Chen's, Dolensky's, or Hochstein's, but apparently the judges live in a completely different reality than I do.
Miner - can't find a vid of his program, so no specific thoughts.
Rippon - overscored. How did that axel get such high GOE? It would have been 0 in my book. Certainly I thought Dolensky's axel - while off axis - was higher and landed better than Rippon's, and Dolensky got 0.14 GOE, while Rippon's was >1.5. His combo was also -1.2 in GOE when the lutz was off axis and he fell out of the landing of the toe. By comparison, Chen's sal was on axis and fully rotated w/ a free turn out of it, and his GOE was -2.2. So my TES for Rippon would have been lower.
Chen - I think the score is actually objectively pretty fair, but PCS was maybe a bit underscored relative to, say, Aaron (whose PCS was inflated; see above). His skating is not juniorish to me; it's pretty mature. Just wish he could deepen some of those edges.
Aaron - overscored. In my opinion, his interpretation score should be the lowest of those in the top 6. Yes, he has certainly improved, but the PCS must reflect how well he did in relation to others, not in relation to his own baseline. Not sure in what universe his interpretation is better than Chen's, Dolensky's, or Hochstein's, but apparently the judges live in a completely different reality than I do.
Miner - can't find a vid of his program, so no specific thoughts.
Rippon - overscored. How did that axel get such high GOE? It would have been 0 in my book. Certainly I thought Dolensky's axel - while off axis - was higher and landed better than Rippon's, and Dolensky got 0.14 GOE, while Rippon's was >1.5. His combo was also -1.2 in GOE when the lutz was off axis and he fell out of the landing of the toe. By comparison, Chen's sal was on axis and fully rotated w/ a free turn out of it, and his GOE was -2.2. So my TES for Rippon would have been lower.
Chen - I think the score is actually objectively pretty fair, but PCS was maybe a bit underscored relative to, say, Aaron (whose PCS was inflated; see above). His skating is not juniorish to me; it's pretty mature. Just wish he could deepen some of those edges.
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- Mar 23, 2010
Heheh US Nationals Mens... ALWAYS entertaining... I am refering to the scoring of course! 
Well consider Max and Adam were previously underscored on a relative basis... it is just one of those 'wait your turn' thingmebobs that is so fickle with this sport and skating politics.
Well consider Max and Adam were previously underscored on a relative basis... it is just one of those 'wait your turn' thingmebobs that is so fickle with this sport and skating politics.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
Is this rink smaller than usual or what? I find those double-checking before they jump so distracting. I'll excuse the younger skaters because they lack experience, but the older skaters.... cmon! (/grumpycat)
I just can't with Max, sorry. (I'm not known for rooting for hometown heroes
). His arm position going into the quad is just so.... ugh; and spins are worse than Plush's circa 2014. Adam was definitely overscored for that messy program, even counting Nationals inflation. I did like some of the choreography though.
Seems like the guys lucked out the 2 PCS kings aren't here.
I just can't with Max, sorry. (I'm not known for rooting for hometown heroes
). His arm position going into the quad is just so.... ugh; and spins are worse than Plush's circa 2014. Adam was definitely overscored for that messy program, even counting Nationals inflation. I did like some of the choreography though.Seems like the guys lucked out the 2 PCS kings aren't here.
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- Feb 9, 2014
Good points, but I have to say I enjoyed tonight men's competition so much! The qualities in men's skating were impressive and most of them brought, or fought to bring their best; not only the top six, Max, Chen, Ross, Adam, Timothy, Grant, but also Alexander, Sean, Daniel and Scott. :clapper:
I think US men has undeniable skating qualities (deep edges, great flow and musicalities) which are great assets. Due to the very culture to value the basics of skating, US can produce and nurture multifaceted competitive skaters eventually. It probably is not the fastest way, but a right way. And we are seeing the fruits now, Nathan Chen!
Nathan can dance, perform, and jump. His presentation can be louder, and his projection can be further and stronger. He lacks an emotional connection with the audience which is the strength of most of (quadless) American skaters.
But he will learn this with experiences. And I have no doubt he will be on the podium at the Worlds sooner or later.
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- Joined
- Feb 20, 2013
I just woke up. Thankfully, this was eight million times better than ladies. 
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
About Phil Hersh's article, I am not sure exactly what he is advocating for. The judges cannot give more points for a quad than the ISU scale of values allows.
Is he saying that the judges should have given Nathan higher scores in choreography and interpretation because he did a two quads? Should they give Jason Brown lower component scores than he deserves because he is not competitive with Hanyu?
Yes, the American men are behind the international pace-setters, but that's not the fault of the judging.
Is he saying that the judges should have given Nathan higher scores in choreography and interpretation because he did a two quads? Should they give Jason Brown lower component scores than he deserves because he is not competitive with Hanyu?
Yes, the American men are behind the international pace-setters, but that's not the fault of the judging.
Why do you always have to be downright mean in your comments? Did you even watch Ross's performance? There was nothing boring about it. Ross has grown in leaps and bounds as a performer this year, and his skate last night was terrific. No quad, but everything he did, he did well.
We can disagree on scoring (I think, for example, that Nathan deserves a few more points than he got), but there is no reason to make nasty comments about specific skaters.
^ I think the problem is over-scoring the artistic programs on the second mark. I think Adam, in particular, was scored too high. And I think Nathan was held back because he is just up from Juniors.
ETA-this was in response to Mathman's post about Phil Hersh's article. Quotes don't work for me on my mobile.
ETA-this was in response to Mathman's post about Phil Hersh's article. Quotes don't work for me on my mobile.
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- Joined
- Jul 13, 2014
Ross' SP was my favorite from the night. Hands down. And just like Josh Farris' "Give Me Love" SP from last year, Ross Miner's "New York State of Mind" SP shows how to CORRECTLY skate to a competitive program with lyrics. Like I said, I'm an advocate for skating with lyrics, but it has to be done right or else the effect will look awkward. Like you have to choose a song that you like AND that you're able to skate to. Like during the JGP series this season, there was one men's skater skating to "Grease Lightning," which was cool, except he was somewhat slow. The speed of skating and the speed of the song have to match in some sort of way and also the passion.
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