2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[ks777]

13

ooopsie

 

[Globetrotter]

Tier 1

2018 US Nationals: Chen 3, Wagner 4
2017 GPF: n/a
2017 Worlds: Chen 4, Wagner 7

Tier 2

2017 GP: Wagner 1 bronze, Chen no medal
2017 4CC: Chen 12, Wagner n/a

Tier 3

2017 US Nationals: Chen 1, Wagner 2


Their own criteria. What's USFS to do?

Chen wins Tier 1. Tier 2 is mixed, but given the poor 4CC result by Chen, you could give it to Wagner. Chen wins Tier 3. But Tier 1 is most important.

If they picked Wagner instead, people would be SCREAMING politics and declaring that their published criteria is a farce and they just pick based on favoritism. And you know what? I wouldn't be able to disagree with that.

Perhaps the choice for Olympics and the scores came from a far simpler reason. Rewatched the SP and LP of the last 6 girls for the 3rd time and this time, I got my most casual observer - Mum who is a housewife, knows nothing about reputation and PCS and all the drama, non English reader. Mum gave me a very tada moment - that Karen Chen and Mirai Nagasu wanted to win the most among the ladies. She liked Mariah Bell and Karen’s performance best but to her, Karen was fiercer and she likes Mirai’s grit near the end. Maybe it is a cultural preference of Asians? She thought Bradie was a good jumper but awkward. She likes Ashley’s LP but certainly not HHCC. Bias aside, Mum was sharp enough to think that Bradie will get the win even though she felt Mirai deserved it for the grit she showed - note that Mum knows nothing about UR, edges etc.

Perhaps it’s really a case of USFS going with who conveyed the biggest hunger in wanting it for the Olympics. Karen Chen was hosed in TES but she gritted it out. That said, perhaps they should have done a JSF and sent Ashley to Worlds. That should at least light some competitive fire in them all.

 

[Procrastinator]

Quick question:

How good is Bradie's lutz edge? She's never gotten called but I notice she does that same weird entrance that Med does to hide her flutz, and her edge doesn't clearly seem to be outside. Any tech experts?

 

[rlopen]

RUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They also said that Maria Butyrskaya would never be a champion because she couldn't handle pressure.....She proved all of her doubters wrong. Bradie has nerves of steel and that will take her very far....I don't see her on the podium in 2018 but, watch for her in 2022......I also think she'll be on the World podium since the Olympic medalists often choose to skip worlds during an Olympic season.

While Bradie isn't my favorite, she is the best we have right now. Also she really does remind me of Kimmie Meissner. While I don't think she will snag a gold medal at Worlds, I think she could definitely snag a potential bronze medal if there's no Medvedeva, Kostner, etc

 

[Shayuki]

Quick question:

How good is Bradie's lutz edge? She's never gotten called but I notice she does that same weird entrance that Med does to hide her flutz, and her edge doesn't clearly seem to be outside. Any tech experts?

It's like Daleman's, you could say. It's probably ! sometimes and sometimes it's a very shallow outside edge. I doubt it'd be bad enough to be called e in this day and age even though it might change at the very last moment. It's not as bad as Medvedeva's and it's not like she gets called for it. Osmond's is also far worse and she only gets a ! sometimes.

I guess it depends on what her status will be. Maybe it would be possible to call it e if you want to be very harsh and she's not considered a top skater getting special privileges. But IMO it's a no-call, with ! at a max.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I kind of view Bradie more as a less polished, more raw version of Gracie. I wouldn't really compare her to Kimmie because I don't think Bradie is anywhere as stiff. With the way Kimmie held her arms when skating around the rink you would have thought she was trying for liftoff

 

[rlopen]

I kind of view Bradie more as a less polished, more raw version of Gracie. I wouldn't really compare her to Kimmie because I don't think Bradie is anywhere as stiff. With the way Kimmie held her arms when skating around the rink you would have thought she was trying for liftoff

Yeah, you're not wrong. Then again, I can't be the only one who thinks Bradie has scissor arms? I feel like sometimes she's chopping the air...or maybe that's what people mean by helicopter arms? My bad if that's what it's supposed to be but whenever I see Bradie I always feel like she's trying to cut something...her arms are like blades sometimes, especially in her ticks in the step sequence.

 

[R.D.]

While Bradie isn't my favorite, she is the best we have right now. Also she really does remind me of Kimmie Meissner.

I was thinking more Rachel Flatt - Flatt had incredible consistency and Tennell seems to share the same gene from what we've seen so far.

I don't see a whole lot of resemblance to Meissner (except for the plain skating perhaps).

 

[Putina]

does anyone know how to cancel membership.

i would like to cancel mine.


thank you.

if anyone questions

i mean the golden skate forum membership

i don't know how to cancel if i would greatly appreciate the help

?
Just change the email address and stop visiting? It does not appear to me your current handle contains any personally identifiable information.

 

[rlopen]

I was thinking more Rachel Flatt - Flatt had incredible consistency and Tennell seems to share the same gene from what we've seen so far.

I don't see a whole lot of resemblance to Meissner (except for the plain skating perhaps).

TBH at this point I don't even know why anymore I made the comparison...I think just because of the fact that it's an Olympic year and I somewhat believe that she's gonna pull out an okay showing at the Olympics and then shock us all with a medal finish at Worlds.

 

[Putina]

Karen/Mirai finishing in the top 10 isn't going to bring back the 3 spots. There is no way Bradie is going to place in the top 3 even with clean skates. Bradie and Mirai/Karen would have to finish 5th and 7th. That's not going to be easy.

Why not? I watched some other top ladies' skates after Tennel's win at the U.S. Championship, and I do not see anything lacking about her skate in comparison.

Edit: I mean, she's got the jumps down. Her spins look as good, but more importantly she gets level 4 on all the spins. Her steps/transitions are definitely there, also level 4. These are what you need to have for the judges to give you scores for. Sure there are intangibles (e.g. She is stiff), but other ladies have shortcomings in comparision (ugly Flutzes, laborious stroking, rushed performance, gross choreography, etc.) and if you start putting chips down you will find it surprisingly difficult to knock Tennel's points off.

 

[AnalyticalMind]

Question: A guy I was sitting near at the SAP Center said that Ashley's only chance is that Karen's reportedly been having back issues. He didn't seem to be too reliable on his facts, so it was taken with a large grain of salt, but is this at all true?

 

[ks777]

Why not? I watched some other top ladies' skates after Tennel's win at the U.S. Championship, and I do not see anything lacking about her skate in comparison.

Edit: I mean, she's got the jumps down. Her spins look as good, but more importantly she gets level 4 on all the spins. Her steps/transitions are definitely there, also level 4. These are what you need to have for the judges to give you scores for. Sure there are intangibles (e.g. She is stiff), but other ladies have shortcomings in comparision (ugly Flutzes, laborious stroking, rushed performance, gross choreography, etc.) and if you start putting chips down you will find it surprisingly difficult to knock Tennel's points off.

Really? Bradie just lost to Sakamoto and Miyahara. There are 3 Russians, Canadians and Kostner. I just don't' see her placing in the top 3. Yes Bradie is consistent but she is not going to get the PCS she got at US nationals.

 

[yelyoh]

Really? Bradie just lost to Sakamoto and Miyahara. There are 3 Russians, Canadians and Kostner. I just don't' see her placing in the top 3. Yes Bradie is consistent but she is not going to get the PCS she got at US nationals.

No medals not even final flight. More like 7-10 which is respectable. I think the two other US women will place in a similar fashion.

 

[NAOTMAA]

No medals not even final flight. More like 7-10 which is respectable. I think the two other US women will place in a similar fashion.

That's pretty much what I expect from Bradie and Mirai but I'm concerned Karen will not hold up so well : I will say even though she has regressed Ashley would have easily been 7-10.

we shall see in February though

 

[Putina]

That was prior to Ms. Tennel's rise as the U.S. No.1. Now that she is the indisputable No. 1 lady from the U.S., the question we can ask is:

1. Are her skating movements stiffer than Gracie Gold's?
2. Are her skating movements stiffer than Ashley Wagner's?

I chose stiffness since that is the criticism most often levied upon Ms. Tennel's skating. My answers to the above questions are resounding no's. Tennel's skating is no stiffer than Gold's or Wagner's. At some criteria of PCS she exels: I would put her Transition, P/E, and Skating Skills above those of Gold's and Wagner's. At others (Choreo and Interpretation) it is a wash.

If you agree with me with the above points, then now you can take the scores Gold or Wagner received in the international events and extrapolate them with successfully executed tech contents by Tennel. If Gold or Wagner landed jumps like Tennel does, and if they received all the levels for their elements like Tennel dos, what score would they have received? Would those scores have been competitive with the Russians' or the Japenese's?

My answer to the hypothetical question is a yes. And as I mentioned earlier I see comparable shortcomings in Ms. Tennel's international competitors.

 

[R.D.]

Man, I'm not even sure I can muster up much if any excitement for the women's event at the Olympics...I might watch the team event but individual, kinda a done deal and no US ladies in contention anyway.

 

[sross43]

How much financial/packaging support does the USFS provide their Olympic team members? I would love for Bradie to get a different dress and maybe have someone come in to work with her on her PCS aspects, but would the USFS pay for that?

 

[R.D.]

That was prior to Ms. Tennel's rise as the U.S. No.1. Now that she is an indisputable No. 1 lady from the U.S., the question we can ask is:

1. Are her skating movements stiffer than Gracie Gold's?
2. Are her skating movements stiffer than Ashley Wagner's?

I chose stiffness since that is the criticism most often levied upon Ms. Tennel's skating. My answers to the above questions are resounding no's. Tennel's skating is no stiffer than Gold's or Wagner's. At some criteria of PCS she exels: I would put her Transitions, P/E, and skating skills above those of Gold's and Wagner's. At others (Choreo and Interpretation) it is a wash.

If you agree with me with the above points, then now you can take the scores Gold or Wagner received in the internail events and extraporlate them with successfully executed tech contents by Tennel. If Gold or Wagner landed jumps like Tennel does, and if they receive all the levels for their elements like Tennel dos, what score would they have received? Would those scores have been competitive with the Russians' or the Japenese'?

My answer to the hypothetical question is a yes. And as I mentioned beforehand I see comparable shortcomings in Ms. Tennel's international competition.

She'll get the TES if she lands the jumps - the difference is going to come down to the PCS

She already got high 130s at SA, which is very good but perhaps not quite competitive for a medal (140+ seems to be needed nowadays). But the SP is where it's at, and as long as she fails to break 70 she will find it tough to factor in.

 

[SarahSynchro]

I have no idea to be honest. Considering you wrote that I suppose she was younger than Tara?
Either way, I was stating my view of the team event - it is forced and I feel it was introduced so that Russian skaters could triumph at Olympics in Russia. I might be wrong and the proposal may have come from another country. Anyone know which country proposed the team event to be introduced?

Figure skating is an individual sport and nothing about it screams "team". I'll say it again - if you want a team ice skating event, we already have a sport for that.

*snort* Yes, because all figure skating fans equate synchronized skating as being on equal footing with the other four disciplines.

The team event was the alternative, cheaper option to putting synchro in the olympics, as the team is made up of athletes who are already there for their individual events.