2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[sross43]

I think the entire bunch of "top US ladies" should be scrapped, expect maybe Bradie. As much as I love Karen's spins, she can't rotate for anything and can't perform under pressure, both things she knew she needed to fix the last year and did not. Mirai doesn't seem to be able to get any component marks and hit her jumps in the same program, and I think the body of a 24 year-old doesn't have many more years to fix that. Bradie at least has a strong technical basis. Get her a stylist and improve her components; she doesn't have a natural star quality, but neither does Caroline until she starts skating.

The USFS needs to increase the required technical content in the younger ranks (which I believe they're doing), get their kids sports psychologists from a younger age, and increase recruiting to bring in a wider pool of talent.

Side question: Would an American ever be allowed to train with Eteri since she trains in a government-sponsored sports school? (Assuming Eteri would even want to go through the trouble of getting a US accreditation)

 

[CellarDweller]

I don't see Mirai staying in the competitive ranks after the World Champs. I'm hoping she goes to WC with the the mindset of going out with a bang, and lands her triple Axel twice.

Bradie just got to the senior ranks, so she's not going anywhere, and Karen needs to refocus on her jumps.

I'm hoping they all go into WC with redemption on their minds.


Next US Nationals, it will be interesting to see if Starr Andrews can get herself into the mix. 6th place is a great start.

 

[Blades of Passion]

You think Ross Miner rotates all his 4S

No, stop making false statements. I'm not going to bother responding to your other wrongheaded remark.

and now you say Bradie doesn't rotate the 3z+3t she's been given credit for at 5 competitions this year. Borderline at best? Hardly---she got +1.1 GOE for it. Her 2a+3t was ratified at 3 other competitions this season. The 3t was < at the Olympic FS because she stepped out of it----that is not "all season long".

Getting +1.1 GOE doesn't mean a jump isn't borderline on the rotation. Look at the GOE's Medvedeva gets or even Miyahara. Nor does stepping out of a jump have to do with how rotation should be called. Bradie's 2A+3T has been < all season and I don't care how it has been called, the tech panels have constantly been proven wrong. I care about facts and I can see with my own eyes and taking the time to check it that she cheats the jump.

Her 3Lutz+3Toe is flawed in the same way, turning too far on the takeoff, although she tends to carry better speed into the Toeloop there, allowing her that extra little snap to get the jump around better. It has been more than 1/4 short at times though and I'm going to keep being real about it, instead of just turning a blind eye as you and the USFSA have been trying to do, out of desperation for an American lady who can consistently get away with a clean tech sheet.

 

[brightphoton]

We had two skaters in the top 10 just now, even though all of them made errors in both programs, so I think we have a solid shot at two spots. Don't think we'll keep three and, honestly, we don't deserve three. Japan would make far better use of it.

Yeah. I would be okay with 2 spots now. Obviously hoping for 3, since we're on the bubble, but US figure skating isn't in the top tiers anymore.

 

[zanadude]

What are you trying to say about American skaters in general? What's wrong with speaking your mind in front of a mic?

Nothing, if you don't care about the consequences of doing so. But since she has already apologized, she obviously did.

 

[topaz emerald]

Nothing, if you don't care about the consequences of doing so. But since she has already apologized, she obviously did.

are you talking about this article here? http://people.com/sports/winter-olympics-2018-mirai-nagasu-explains-dwts-interview-triple-axel/ I just googled Mirai Nagasu.

Well, I never cared for her skating one bit, in fact, of all the US women skaters, she has NEVER been on my radar. She lacks emotion and is comparable to a blank wall when she performs on the ice. Her 3axel is something she should have added at her first olympics when she was in her prime. Too late to add it now and of course, she bombed it in peongchang. It is too bad for the US women in general, but not all US skaters sound like Mirai in that article....of course, she can say whatever she wants, but needs to deal with the consequences as you've said. She only apologized because of the backlash. All of a sudden I feel sorry for Ashley's "I am furious, absolutely furious" comment, lol. Really, I don't know what's going to happen to U.S. ladies figure skating in the next coming years....

but here's a glimmer of hope, Alysa Liu's recent Advanced Novice freeskate in Hague: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRqh8eRhmZs The video quality is bad, but the person was nice enough to share it. In her original layout, she also does a triple flip, half loop, triple toe, but it looks like she took it out this time, maybe it's not allowed in Novice? or maybe she's taking it easy. She won the silver medal here, so I am really curious who won gold because Alysa nailed her program. My guess is either a Russian, Japanese, or Korean.

 

[chuckm]

Here were the top 5 in the Advanced Novice FS at Challenge Cup:

1 Hanna YOSHIDA JPN 92.91 53.10 39.81 6.19 6.13 6.31 6.25 0.00 28 3f+3t, 3z, 3lo, 3s, 2a+3t, 3f
2 Alysa LIU USA 86.99 48.79 38.20 6.06 5.75 6.06 6.00 0.00 29 2a, 3z+3t, 3f+2t, 3lo<, 3z, 3f
3 Rika TEJIMA JPN 74.98 42.97 33.01 5.50 4.94 5.13 5.06 1.00 25 3f+3t, 3z, 3lo↓, 3s, 2a+3t, 3f<↓
4 Kinayu YOKOI JPN 69.79 36.18 34.11 5.75 5.00 5.44 5.13 0.50 27 3t, 3a<<↓ 3z+2t, 3f, 3lo, 2a+1lo+3s*
5 Leonie SCHWENZNER GER 57.56 28.05 29.51 4.63 4.31 4.75 4.75 0.00 26 2z+2lo, 2a+2t, 2lo, 2a, 2z, 2f

Final Standings Advanced Novice Ladies

1 - Hanna YOSHIDA JPN 134.77 2 1
2 - Alysa LIU USA 129.78 1 2
3 - Kinayu YOKOI JPN 108.18 3 4
4 - Rika TEJIMA JPN 106.54 5 3
5 - Leonie SCHWENZNER GER 89.84 4 5


Final Standings Junior Ladies

1 - Nana ARAKI JPN 174.91 1 1
2 - Yuhana YOKOI JPN 169.71 4 2
3 - Stefanie PRESENDORFER AUT 159.12 3 3
4 - Gabriella IZZO USA 153.62 2 4
5 - Akari NAKAHARA USA 143.00 6 5

Final Standings Senior Ladies

1 - Wakaba HIGUCHI JPN 203.94 1 1
2 - Rika HONGO JPN 168.79 2 3
3 - Marin HONDA JPN 160.19 11 2
4 - Nathalie WEINZIERL GER 159.15 3 4
5 - Nina POVEY GBR 150.74 7 5


Marin Honda had a dreadful SP: 1z*, 2a, 2f+2t* 48.21

 

[Sjs5572]

are you talking about this article here? http://people.com/sports/winter-olympics-2018-mirai-nagasu-explains-dwts-interview-triple-axel/ I just googled Mirai Nagasu.

Well, I never cared for her skating one bit, in fact, of all the US women skaters, she has NEVER been on my radar. She lacks emotion and is comparable to a blank wall when she performs on the ice. Her 3axel is something she should have added at her first olympics when she was in her prime. Too late to add it now and of course, she bombed it in peongchang. It is too bad for the US women in general, but not all US skaters sound like Mirai in that article....of course, she can say whatever she wants, but needs to deal with the consequences as you've said. She only apologized because of the backlash. All of a sudden I feel sorry for Ashley's "I am furious, absolutely furious" comment, lol. Really, I don't know what's going to happen to U.S. ladies figure skating in the next coming years....

but here's a glimmer of hope, Alysa Liu's recent Advanced Novice freeskate in Hague: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRqh8eRhmZs The video quality is bad, but the person was nice enough to share it. In her original layout, she also does a triple flip, half loop, triple toe, but it looks like she took it out this time, maybe it's not allowed in Novice? or maybe she's taking it easy. She won the silver medal here, so I am really curious who won gold because Alysa nailed her program. My guess is either a Russian, Japanese, or Korean.

Advanced Novice girls are not allowed to do three jump combinations. https://www.isu.org/inside-single-p...270-2024-novice-2016-17-replacing-2013-1/file

From what I've heard, Alysa had two very questionable underrotation calls, one in the short and one in the long. She likely would have won gold if jumps were deemed clean. FYI, a Japanese girl won gold.

 

[topaz emerald]

Advanced Novice girls are not allowed to do three jump combinations. https://www.isu.org/inside-single-p...270-2024-novice-2016-17-replacing-2013-1/file

From what I've heard, Alysa had two very questionable underrotation calls, one in the short and one in the long. She likely would have won gold if jumps were deemed clean. FYI, a Japanese girl won gold.

UR? wth? her jumps looked clean. I see that not onliy willl she contend against the russians japanese and koreans, but judges as well. One way to stop a rising American skater is too hit her on URs and PC marks. That will definitely discourage her from podium contention.

 

[topaz emerald]

Advanced Novice girls are not allowed to do three jump combinations. https://www.isu.org/inside-single-p...270-2024-novice-2016-17-replacing-2013-1/file

From what I've heard, Alysa had two very questionable underrotation calls, one in the short and one in the long. She likely would have won gold if jumps were deemed clean. FYI, a Japanese girl won gold.

who is this Japanese girl? does she have a name?

That reminds me....Alysa competed in The Asian Trophy awhile back and tried a triple lutz/loop combo , she also added a flip/toe combo right at the end of her program but still lost to another Japanese skater who didn't have as difficult a layout.......smh.

 

[Koatterce]

who is this Japanese girl? does she have a name?

That reminds me....Alysa competed in The Asian Trophy awhile back and tried a triple lutz/loop combo , she also added a flip/toe combo right at the end of her program but still lost to another Japanese skater who didn't have as difficult a layout.......smh.

Hanna Yoshida

 

[topaz emerald]

Hanna Yoshida

just watched her skate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-B2uPaZiKs I don't know how that beat Alysa. Maybe alysa only had one hard combo, and Hanna did an axel/toe at the end of her program? Whatever, those UR or questionable call on her combo in the LP was not justified at all....like I said one way to stop a rising American star is to give her the reputation for UR and lowball her on PCs, just watch....if this happens to this talented girl, I AM DONE with this sport.

 

[topaz emerald]

Hanna Yoshida

and thank you for answering my question

 

[Shayuki]

but here's a glimmer of hope, Alysa Liu's recent Advanced Novice freeskate in Hague: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRqh8eRhmZs The video quality is bad, but the person was nice enough to share it. In her original layout, she also does a triple flip, half loop, triple toe, but it looks like she took it out this time, maybe it's not allowed in Novice? or maybe she's taking it easy. She won the silver medal here, so I am really curious who won gold because Alysa nailed her program. My guess is either a Russian, Japanese, or Korean.

Triple Flip - Half Loop - Triple Toe is not a combo skaters can do. You do either a Salchow or a Flip after a Half Loop. But yes, at the Advanced Novice level you just do two 2 jump combos.

Alysa Liu has had some trouble with underrotations in the past, from what I've seen in her videos. And most of the jumps that land are borderline. Of course, that's quite alright as she still is young.

Still, I think the 3Lo UR call was incorrect, but I would have given her second Lutz an underrotation call. I hope she can work on rotating them more decisively and consistently.


In any case... Hanna Yoshida performed 7 triples and Alysa Liu only 6 triples, so the winner should be correct even if the UR call had gone differently.

 

[topaz emerald]

Here were the top 5 in the Advanced Novice FS at Challenge Cup:

1 Hanna YOSHIDA JPN 92.91 53.10 39.81 6.19 6.13 6.31 6.25 0.00 28 3f+3t, 3z, 3lo, 3s, 2a+3t, 3f
2 Alysa LIU USA 86.99 48.79 38.20 6.06 5.75 6.06 6.00 0.00 29 2a, 3z+3t, 3f+2t, 3lo<, 3z, 3f
3 Rika TEJIMA JPN 74.98 42.97 33.01 5.50 4.94 5.13 5.06 1.00 25 3f+3t, 3z, 3lo↓, 3s, 2a+3t, 3f<↓
4 Kinayu YOKOI JPN 69.79 36.18 34.11 5.75 5.00 5.44 5.13 0.50 27 3t, 3a<<↓ 3z+2t, 3f, 3lo, 2a+1lo+3s*
5 Leonie SCHWENZNER GER 57.56 28.05 29.51 4.63 4.31 4.75 4.75 0.00 26 2z+2lo, 2a+2t, 2lo, 2a, 2z, 2f

Final Standings Advanced Novice Ladies

1 - Hanna YOSHIDA JPN 134.77 2 1
2 - Alysa LIU USA 129.78 1 2
3 - Kinayu YOKOI JPN 108.18 3 4
4 - Rika TEJIMA JPN 106.54 5 3
5 - Leonie SCHWENZNER GER 89.84 4 5


Final Standings Junior Ladies

1 - Nana ARAKI JPN 174.91 1 1
2 - Yuhana YOKOI JPN 169.71 4 2
3 - Stefanie PRESENDORFER AUT 159.12 3 3
4 - Gabriella IZZO USA 153.62 2 4
5 - Akari NAKAHARA USA 143.00 6 5

Final Standings Senior Ladies

1 - Wakaba HIGUCHI JPN 203.94 1 1
2 - Rika HONGO JPN 168.79 2 3
3 - Marin HONDA JPN 160.19 11 2
4 - Nathalie WEINZIERL GER 159.15 3 4
5 - Nina POVEY GBR 150.74 7 5


Marin Honda had a dreadful SP: 1z*, 2a, 2f+2t* 48.21

Hanna should have been called for an inside edge on that lutz. Judges are ignoring edge takeoffs and it should be penalized heavily for doing a jump WRONG.

Alysa being called for an UR on her loop? SMH... I hope she continues to train her lutz/loop. She should have done her flip half loop/toe combo, I don't understand why she left it out, plus her music is shorter. USFSA need to send her to competitions against the Russians. She needs to see her competition up close.

 

[topaz emerald]

Triple Flip - Half Loop - Triple Toe is not a combo skaters can do. You do either a Salchow or a Flip after a Half Loop. But yes, at the Advanced Novice level you just do two 2 jump combos.

Alysa Liu has had some trouble with underrotations in the past, from what I've seen in her videos. And most of the jumps that land are borderline. Of course, that's quite alright as she still is young.

Still, I think the 3Lo UR call was incorrect, but I would have given her second Lutz an underrotation call. I hope she can work on rotating them more decisively and consistently.


In any case... Hanna Yoshida performed 7 triples and Alysa Liu only 6 triples, so the winner should be correct even if the UR call had gone differently.

All her jumps looked clean to me. And what about all this backloading talk winning you more POINTS? Huh? All of a sudden it ain't worth **** anymore if an American skater does it. SMH....lol.

 

[Shayuki]

All her jumps looked clean to me. And what about all this backloading talk winning you more POINTS? Huh? All of a sudden it ain't worth **** anymore if an American skater does it. SMH....lol.

Well, backloading is worth some points but not as much as performing one extra triple... As I said, 7 triples vs 6. It's pretty clear cut.

 

[topaz emerald]

By the way, she has correct edge take off on her lutz, and flip. She needs to work on her speed and improve her edges, and transitions (this will come soon). Time will tell how much taller she will grow and how proportional her body will be, but imo, she has ALL her jumps, and she's lyrical. The only jump combo I have not seen her attempt yet is the 2axel/3toe.

Overall, good job in making the podium, although she should have won GOLD...smh.

 

[topaz emerald]

Well, backloading is worth some points but not as much as performing one extra triple... As I said, 7 triples vs 6. It's pretty clear cut.

she backloaded all her jumps (except the axel).....just like the russian teens. All this talk about backloading making it more difficult doesn't work for an American I guess....

 

[frida80]

Any feedback that Alyssa gets Internationally, I consider a good thing. She can’t go to th JGP until 2019, so that gives her a full year to make certain her jumps are as clean as possible. I hope she gets at least three Adv. novice comps next year.