2017-2018 State of Russian Ice Dance
- Thread starter gmyers
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:dev2::dev2::dev2:
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE, THEY MUST CHANGE COACHES. They need people that can read the ijs manuals!!!!
:dev2::dev2::dev2:
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE, THEY MUST CHANGE COACHES. They need people that can read the ijs manuals!!!!
No, today's agenda is different: it was russian judging panel. Shekhovtseva bought everyone!!!! The Russian's marks are way too big, they are overscored. It's the Parsons who got underscored. They were the best today, but evil russian judges and tech panel put them down.
...except Parsons had higher BV than Popova/Mozgov today.
It's not a joking matter! Russia is looking at not medaling in ice dance for the first time ever! They probably won't! It's time for them to change everything! They must send any team with potential to North America or pay north Americans to train people like zhulin and kustarova how to be good ice dance coaches under the modern rules and modern thinking!
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No, today's agenda is different: it was russian judging panel. Shekhovtseva bought everyone!!!! The Russian's marks are way too big, they are overscored. It's the Parsons who got underscored. They were the best today, but evil russian judges and tech panel put them down.
...except Parsons had higher BV than Popova/Mozgov today.
Totally agree, P/M were very overmarked. Yes they are nice and entertaining, but the basic skating is not what it should be. I noticed he has to stand on 2 feet a lot to allow her to do her stuff. Having said that I enjoyed their program.
Uh, you do realize that was sarcasm...
that said, I agree. the pcs P/M got were ridiculous, especially judge 6 and 7 with SS. 8.5s for them but the Parsons are 8.00 and 8.25?
I totally get scoring P/M higher on interpretation/performance, but quite frankly, Popova's skating is not her bright spot. She's more Chock than Ilinykh.But it shouldn't be! It's outrageous that it is. That there's no more talent in Russia in coaching and wasting all potential in skaters. That Russia has allowed b/s beating parsons to become a huge triumph. It's outrageous. Why can't Russia send b/s and s/b to dubreil? Why have they no pride in history of success? I don't want to watch autumn classic! Russia to be a filler nation. Why can't they use better coaches who learn ijs rules and read the manuals.
Catching up with this thread, I suddenly remembered I've got a book called The Catastrophist from the library and the due date is approaching. :bmrk:This thread is hysterical
These events are incomparable. Hubbel/Donohue skated home. Do you have any idea how high Bobrova/Soloviev score would be if they would have skated home?
They are incomparable. (And the whole idea that anyone is bothering to hold this conversation is just silly).
But the same tech caller at the U.S. Classic handed out ZERO level three footwork sequences last year. Hubbell & Donohue didn't have one there last season. This is so NOT the Mordovian Ornament or the event for huge home scoring. It was the tightest called Challenger of the entire season last year, and will very likely be so again this year.
Hawayek & Baker skated the same FD as last season--one that earned over 100 points internationally--without getting close to 100 at this event.
Comparing scores in different Challengers is a fruitless pursuit, IMO. The point is to get your programs out there and get tough feedback so you can compete strong the rest of the season.
Meanwhile . . . in response to those posters who are all prepared to cast aside the current Russian Junior World team members, just stop. S&S and S&E were set up for a collision at Riga. There was no internal reason for S&E to be at this event at all. They should have been in Austria. Instead, Russia moves their experienced #4 in order to block the Greens and accidentally topples their number 1 team in the process.
It's DIFFERENT to be the leader. Carreira & Ponomarenko, Shpilevaya & Smirnov, and Skoptcova & Aleshin--NONE of these favorite junior teams have ever been the favorites coming into a JGP event or Nationals competition before. This is the first time any of them have ever been considered the teams to beat. Allow them the chance to adjust. Christina took a fall in her SD. S&S botched a twizzle entry. S&A didn't win their first FD.
But they aren't chasing. They are defending, and that's hard.
And, hey, these upcoming teams may really pass the leaders. But . . .
Then they will have to deal with living up to expectations, and it will be a different mental mindset as well. How many losses did The Parsons, Loboda & Drozd, and McNamara & Carpenter take before they reached the top? Every one of them needed at least about two seasons from the first signs that they COULD compete at the top to actually accomplishing it. This is dance. It's not about how fast you get there. It's about dealing with the upsets, the mistakes, the loss of a segment, a drop in the standings, a tough field, a tough caller, an away game event--all of it--and coming back stronger and more unified than before.
YEs, but I was not talking about the level, why do you think I did? Have you seen the GOEs? Straight +2s and +3s. At the Nepela, especially in the SD, the GOE were mostly 0, +1 and some +2s. So yeah, the events are incomparable. And that's what I said. Such GOE difference brings more points than the difference in 1 or even 2 levels for some elements.
And if it's silly to hold this conversation why do you bother?
Especially considering that my previous comment clearly was sarcastic.Silly to hold the conversation with a poster whose whole purpose in this thread is to rip apart the athletes under the topic being discussed. Not silly to discuss Challenger results with rational posters sharing their own insight.
I do not know what to think about Hubbell & Donohue's scores at the U.S. Classic. I think it is interesting that after two seasons of barely coming out of this event with their shirts intact, they came out of this one with a score over 110. I think, in part, they are benefiting from finally breaking through. I think the SD is strong and they may be able to challenge Weaver & Poje in Canada. I think the free is not as ready yet, and I will wait to see it develop. I also think it is always harder to compete across the ocean and teams get tougher feedback from foreign judges that way. (And I assume the Russians think so too since they never send their dancers to North American Challengers).
I think this particular Challenger series is more disappointing than the last couple seasons because all the top teams seem to be staying as close to home as possible or not competing and not going up against each other at all, except for the Canadian teams--and I hope their Federation didn't push them into this because I think pitting your own athletes against one another before they have had the chance to prove themselves against the competition is poorly played.
On the other hand, it is great to see so many young teams out on the CS series and waging real battles.
I think Hubbell & Donohue have the best SD and Bobrova & Soloviev have the best FD that I have seen thus far.
But--you know--clearly my taste diverges from that of the international judges.
Okay. I didn't try to 'rip apart the athletes' if you're referring to me. It's just that the thread turned to be rather amusing lately, so I just added some oil into the fire. Anyway, these Challenger series, like I said last season, and the season previous to last, don't mean a thing. Yes, teams get the feedback they need, it's true. But to compare the scoring between events is just useless. A lot of teams have their PBs from the Challengers, and can't come close to these scores during GP series and major competitons. And it's quite sad, really. It just shows HOW bad the scoring system is, that some jusges can give points like a candys, during ISU official events mind you, and then nothing will happen to punish them or prevent it in the future. It's basically showing just how flexible (in a bad meaning) the system is, judges can bend it any way they want. It's better later on the season, of course, but it is still a major issue that needs to be adressed in the future.
As for Hubbel/Donohue, I like their dances this year. Their SD is great and FD is cool too. What I don't like is their technical content, their lifts and twizzles in particular. I don't see anything challenging at all in their programs. That's my main problem with them. Very safe. I admire Zach's skills, his quiet edges and soft knees, but Madison is not really on the same level with him. They scored really well for what they showed in their event. Both skates were rough, worse than Bobrova/Soloviev's at Nepela in my opinion. But that's what the Challengers are for, they received some 'battle practice' and they see what they need to change. And these extremely high GOEs will not help them to understand that, judges basically say 'you're perfect'. I don't see why it's good :confused2:
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Well, we all have those horror stories we like to rehash about the Mordovian Ornament and Tallinn Trophy, but this year, for real, some of the CS events are all over the place, just look at ACI, for example. Nepela on the first two days was a bit more controlled, and even in the last one the scores were still quite tame compared to others, but it is hard to see those high scores so early in the season, that the skaters can never match later on even with better skates. And it's not even the levels, as Snow said before. It's hard to give credit to those scores, even if those competitions are under the ISU, and it's the reason why it never works to compare scores across competitions, which I still think shouldn't be a problem.
There was obvious strategic lowballing going on in the US to try to make teams work harder for levels. It's a brilliant strategy at has worked while Russia gives all their teams level 4s on everything in every competition. It's absurd and you see why Russia no longer has any team contending for world or Olympic medals. Why their ice dance program is dead. Meanwhile almost every American senior team can win world and Olympic medals.
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Bolded this for commentary: NO. I'll give it to you that some of them can, and even H/D showed that last worlds, but then they choked. Just like C/B a bunch of times in the past, really, if it wasn't for the Shibs last season, no americans would be on the podium. Also, let's not talk about the level 4s handed out like candy in Boston two seasons ago, and also, how lowballed Nationals and other competitions in the US are, I mean, are you even following them?
Their ID program is indeed stellar, but not every Senior team can and will win medals. Besides the top three, every other team has a long way to go. Juniors turned seniors this year will take two, three years to reach the top, and that's fantastic for the future, but they won't do anything this year. You were freaking out about the Parsons, and then they went and completely lost the plot in the FD - and that at Nepela, where they were the only team with a level 4 in the steps.
There was a freak out and it was justified! First time ever in seniors and Parsons easily beat b/s and its terrible symbol of zhulin mega incompetence in knowing levels in ice dance. Then Parsons collapsed in free dance but the larger truth had already been vividly demonstrated. Any American team can enter any competion and beat 7 time Russia champs world Olympic medalists b/s immediately with no problem.
Not About Boston nationals I meant summer competitions.
I just can't... :giveup:
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