2015-2016 Russian Nationals Ladies FS

[Poice]

Where can I find protocols? Can someone post a link, please?

 

[helene1967]

Where can I find protocols? Can someone post a link, please?

Judges Scores at http://fsrussia.ru/results/1516/rusnat1516_eng/index.htm

 

[jenaj]

Well, I think that this was actually clearly better than Medvedeva's GPF performance, and she got 147.96 for that. In my opinion, 149-150 would be more accurate.

Her flutz wasn't called so that's a reduction of maybe close to 2 TES and then a few points lower PCS and some lower GOEs overall. But if her GPF performance deserved 72.37 PCS, this one was close to 74.

There was a lot of inflation at the GPF, too. But even assuming that 147.96 was valid, her Russian skate wasn't 7+ points better! I personally didn't see any difference, but maybe she deserved a 148 for the slight improvement.

 

[Shayuki]

Obviously not 7 points better, its nationals. But well, maybe you dont see any difference, I definitely do. If you think GPF was inflated that is ok, it still counts for SBs and is just your opinion anyway. It wasn't just a 0.04 point improvement, though.

 

[FSGMT]

Obviously not 7 points better, its nationals. But well, maybe you dont see any difference, I definitely do. If you think GPF was inflated that is ok, it still counts for SBs and is just your opinion anyway. It wasn't just a 0.04 point improvement, though.

What strikes me is how a skater can receive 27 and 58 PCS at her first Senior B in October with almost-clean performances and then go up to 34 and 72 at GPF in December with the same programs: did her ss improve dramatically in two months (which is something skaters are not able to achieve in years of work), did her choreography and transitions change so much? I'm sorry, but I simply can't understand it.

 

[whatif]

What strikes me is how a skater can receive 27 and 58 PCS at her first Senior B in October with almost-clean performances and then go up to 34 and 72 at GPF in December with the same programs: did her ss improve dramatically in two months (which is something skaters are not able to achieve in years of work), did her choreography and transitions change so much? I'm sorry, but I simply can't understand it.

The panels are different. It's being said so many times that comparing scores across different comps is thankless job. So save your time, energy, and your fingers typing.

While recently the scores have been jumping higher than usual, and not just in Ladies events, it's not uncommon that the scores for some Junior skaters debuting at senior level tend to change significantly in their first senior year. That's always been the case for the "newly anointed" ones- Asada, Kim, Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya etc. 3-4 point increase in PCS as they settle in and start winning is pretty common.

 

[randomfan]

The panels are different. It's being said so many times that comparing scores across different comps is thankless job. So save your time, energy, and your fingers typing.

You're right, but the scores of a competition become an influence to the next one, regardless of how different the panel is. If a skater skates pretty well with some small mistakes or one big mistake, then skates the program cleanly at the next competition, the score has to be higher than the one in the first competition. But in this case it was all wrong from the start.

Evgenia fell at SA and still managed to score 135 in her first major competition in seniors. Her FS at Rostelecom Cup was better, so it had to be scored higher, which resulted in 139. Then comes the GPF, where she managed to have an awesome SP so she had the boost of skating last in the FS and skated wonderfully again and received an extremely high score of 148 (in RC she fell in the SP, so she was in a better circumstance for the GPF). And now we have nationals, where she once again did very well in both programs and scored 3 unofficial WRs thanks to the inflation. There's a pattern here. Every time a skater skates better than before (along with the help of other factors in the competition), they have to be scored higher because of the influence of the scores in the previous competition. But 135 with a fall for the skater's first-ever major senior competition makes no sense at all, so the base of where this all started is already wrong and inaccurate. If she was scored lower like 126 or something at SA, then the following scores would be higher than 126 but lower than what she actually is getting throughout the season because that first score is what the second score is being compared with and so on.

Yes, she did better in each following competition. But that does not mean she deserves scores (or boosts in that matter) as high as that. It's honestly pretty frustrating, because there are many skaters who had seasons like Evgenia does right now yet their boosts (if they have them) are not as big as the boosts that Evgenia gets.

 

[whatif]

You're right, but the scores of a competition become an influence to the next one, regardless of how different the panel is. If a skater skates pretty well with some small mistakes or one big mistake, then skates the program cleanly at the next competition, the score has to be higher than the one in the first competition. But in this case it was all wrong from the start.

Evgenia fell at SA and still managed to score 135 in her first major competition in seniors. Her FS at Rostelecom Cup was better, so it had to be scored higher, which resulted in 139. Then comes the GPF, where she managed to have an awesome SP so she had the boost of skating last in the FS and skated wonderfully again and received an extremely high score of 148 (in RC she fell in the SP, so she was in a better circumstance for the GPF). And now we have nationals, where she once again did very well in both programs and scored 3 unofficial WRs thanks to the inflation. There's a pattern here. Every time a skater skates better than before (along with the help of other factors in the competition), they have to be scored higher because of the influence of the scores in the previous competition. But 135 with a fall for the skater's first-ever major senior competition makes no sense at all, so the base of where this all started is already wrong and inaccurate. If she was scored lower like 126 or something at SA, then the following scores would be higher than 126 but lower than what she actually is getting throughout the season because that first score is what the second score is being compared with and so on.

Yes, she did better in each following competition. But that does not mean she deserves scores (or boosts in that matter) as high as that. It's honestly pretty frustrating, because there are many skaters who had seasons like Evgenia does right now yet their boosts (if they have them) are not as big as the boosts that Evgenia gets.

OK, Now I am getting lost about what is exactly the issue here. The poster I replied to was citing the difference of the scores across competitions. Giving an example of a score going from 58 to 63 and so on. Now you claim that the scoring is linked somehow.

In the end it's not about PCS increase, it's about the placements. Unless those PCS significantly affect placements beyond reason, I just personally do not care. So I end my input into this subject matter here. But please do continue.

 

[randomfan]

OK, Now I am getting lost about what is exactly the issue here. The poster I replied to was citing the difference of the scores across competitions. Giving an example of a score going from 58 to 63 and so on. Now you claim that the scoring is linked somehow.

In the end it's not about PCS increase, it's about the placements. Unless those PCS significantly affect placements beyond reason, I just personally do not care. So I end my input into this subject matter here. But please do continue.

I apologize that my explanation sounded confusing and unclear. With all that to say, I guess it is understandable that you got lost.

FSGMT was talking about how wide the gap was for a new senior's first-ever senior competition to the GPF. I was extending to that with my SA explanation. Her scores at SA were much higher than the ones as the senior B event, even though she fell at SA and it was her first major competition in seniors. She had more problems at the senior B event, so the SA score being higher makes total sense, but not the actual score Since a senior B event is not a major event, SA would be the first big event that she entered as a senior, so the scores there are the base of her scoring this season. Base = The beginning of the scores that are being compared. Then the explanation about her scores throughout the season so far fits after that.

The issue is that the base score (the SA score) was already too high, but that was what the next competitions had to be compared with. They had to see if the skater did better at SA or RC. She did better at RC, so they have to make it higher than SA for it to make sense. I'm saying that if the base score (the SA score) was lower (and in the process more appropriate), than while her following scores will still need to be higher, they won't be as high as what she actually got. So the issue is the SA score, which led up to here.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I think one of the biggest things about Zhenia's scores that annoy me is when there are judges giving out 9.75's in choreography I know they are only punishing her at most .25 for those uninspiring and clunky spread eagles. That coupled with those awkward illusion style turns that always seem to jar the momentum. I mean...does anyone really think that she executes them well or that they offer value to the performance and expand the feel of the program? To me...that is the point of PCS. Instead I just imagine a coin sound each time like when Mario jumps and explodes a block with a coin in it. Gotta get all 100 out of 100 coins on the level. *ding ding*

I went back and rewatched yet again her programs from last year and IMO she used those movements much better then and the choreography wasn't so blatantly about points although it really was all about the points. I know I'm in the minority here and I'm certain many disagree with me but I just feel like she is gaming the system instead of winning my heart over with an inspirational performance. Like if she could she would knock me over and take any CoP coins that might happen be in my pocket. *ding ding*

TBH.....I think the over scoring is what turns me off more than anything to her this season even though my first "ugh" regarding her FS came during the test skates. The true irony is so much movement that I find to be pointless are adding up her points total.

To each their own I guess......maybe if someone can shed light on what moves them about her performance here. I'm always willing to listen and maybe I'll start to get on board. As of now it's going right over my head.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

...those uninspiring and clunky spread eagles.

I honestly want to thank you for that comment. The spread eagle she does after her lutz always annoys me - she's nearly at a standstill, and it looks just so wrong and clunky! If you have no speed, don't do that! :ddevil:

And I have a similar problem with Evgenia this season. She's a lovely young girl with a lot of talent, but the scores and praise she is getting this season is throwing me off, honestly. People (and the judges) act as if she was Yuna Kim and Carolina Kostner reborn in one person, and she isn't even close to either (which is fine, because she's really young). And I'm most annoyed with the margin she has over the other russian girls - how is she so far ahead of clean Elena and Anna? Yes yes, she backloads, but those 2 girls have real lutzes. 3Lz3T has nearly equal worth to 3F3T in the 2nd half. Both of them have areas in which they are better than Evgenia - but looking at the scores, you'd think they are 2nd rate skaters compared to her. I just don't get it :noshake:

 

[[email protected]]

I honestly want to thank you for that comment. The spread eagle she does after her lutz always annoys me - she's nearly at a standstill, and it looks just so wrong and clunky! If you have no speed, don't do that! :ddevil:

And I have a similar problem with Evgenia this season. She's a lovely young girl with a lot of talent, but the scores and praise she is getting this season is throwing me off, honestly. People (and the judges) act as if she was Yuna Kim and Carolina Kostner reborn in one person, and she isn't even close to either (which is fine, because she's really young). And I'm most annoyed with the margin she has over the other russian girls - how is she so far ahead of clean Elena and Anna? Yes yes, she backloads, but those 2 girls have real lutzes. 3Lz3T has nearly equal worth to 3F3T in the 2nd half. Both of them have areas in which they are better than Evgenia - but looking at the scores, you'd think they are 2nd rate skaters compared to her. I just don't get it :noshake:

You should see her live - she is marvelous. During her FS she adds seamlessly to the music to bring one whole impression to the audience. I've never seen this from anyone before including Yulia in SL. Looking at Evgenya in Ekaterinburg the last thing I was thinking of was the speed of her spread eagle and the lutz edge which seems to be OK now, at least better than the last year. If not I would like it to be posted in jumpamatron same as Satoko's URs.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

You should see her live - she is marvelous. During her FS she adds seamlessly to the music to bring one whole impression to the audience. I've never seen this from anyone before including Yulia in SL. Looking at Evgenya in Ekaterinburg the last thing I was thinking of was the speed of her spread eagle and the lutz edge which seems to be OK now, at least better than the last year. If not I would like it to be posted in jumpamatron same as Satoko's URs.

I saw her live in Barcelona. And again, I think she's good with lots of talent and potential, but nowhere near as far ahead of her compatriots as her marks suggest. The difference between Elena and Evgenia looked even smaller to me live than on TV, since Elena skates bigger, while Evgenia has more details that don't always come across live for me.

 

[[email protected]]

I saw her live in Barcelona. And again, I think she's good with lots of talent and potential, but nowhere near as far ahead of her compatriots as her marks suggest. The difference between Elena and Evgenia looked even smaller to me live than on TV, since Elena skates bigger, while Evgenia has more details that don't always come across live for me.

In Ekaterinburg Elena had a labored skate while Evgenya was breathtaking at least to me. While 155 might be an overkill, in fact I would place Anna closer than Elena, something like:

Medvedeva 150
Pogorilaya 147
Radionova 143

 

[Li'Kitsu]

In Ekaterinburg Elena had a labored skate while Evgenya was breathtaking at least to me. While 155 might be an overkill, in fact I would place Anna closer than Elena, something like:

Medvedeva 150
Pogorilaya 147
Radionova 143

For these specific skates I'd have Anna over Elena too, and I wouldn't complain with the scores you'd give. I'd have them all lower, but I would have a lot of numbers lower generally, and IMO the margins are right except I'd have Elena a tiny bit closer to Evgenia overall... but not that much.

 

[Amer]

Interesting side note: 3rd year in a row Pervushkina ends up 13th at nationals.

 

[lavender]

First place is no surprise but wow, wow… I just can’t get over these results. Also those scores I crazy. I use to think that U.S. nationals was bad (stress). I almost can’t wait to see who will be the ‘it’ girl next year. It's becoming some kind of cycle. I'm so glad I'm not really invested in any of the Russian girls. It's would be hard being a fan and then they have to go through Nationals. How nerve racking.

I really do wonder if Julia will come back next year. Sad for her.

 

[Jaana]

As for Liza - I feel bad for her. Perhaps she should've taken time off last season? She just looks tired and not engaged.

Maybe she just has participated in too many events this season? Russian Nationals seems to have been her sixth event:

http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00010705.htm

 

[randomfan]

I honestly want to thank you for that comment. The spread eagle she does after her lutz always annoys me - she's nearly at a standstill, and it looks just so wrong and clunky! If you have no speed, don't do that! :ddevil:

And I have a similar problem with Evgenia this season. She's a lovely young girl with a lot of talent, but the scores and praise she is getting this season is throwing me off, honestly. People (and the judges) act as if she was Yuna Kim and Carolina Kostner reborn in one person, and she isn't even close to either (which is fine, because she's really young). And I'm most annoyed with the margin she has over the other russian girls - how is she so far ahead of clean Elena and Anna? Yes yes, she backloads, but those 2 girls have real lutzes. 3Lz3T has nearly equal worth to 3F3T in the 2nd half. Both of them have areas in which they are better than Evgenia - but looking at the scores, you'd think they are 2nd rate skaters compared to her. I just don't get it :noshake:

I agree with you and Sam-Skwantch about everything! And speaking about backloading, I really like her SP music, but doing no elements for the first 30 seconds is pretty irritating, for me at least. She does a spiral, but there is no ChSq in the SP. It's clear that their team just wants a free pass in order to cram all three jumping passes in the second half. If she's starting off with a spin, she should just do it within the first 15 seconds or so and take that spiral completely out of the SP (or at least move it later in the program).

And as I said before, the gap between her and the others is very unnecessary, and seeing this at nationals just makes it even more unfair.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Someone during the Russian Nationals ladies event did a spread eagle full of purpose and I'd even go as far as to say character.

https://youtu.be/7feWMSDub3I?t=2m20s

^^