2017-2018 State of Russian Ice Dance

[Marta25]

Both Ilinykh/Katsalapov and Domnina/Shabalin won Bronze at the Olympics after not making the GPF. Ok, one of them was the reigning World Champion and US #2 and #3 are much stronger now, but you never know what is going to happen.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Well, they did themselves in with the mistake on the spin at COR, which is a pity. Not like the judges gave them much leeway at COC either, but there's nothing you can do about that. So much for european judging, I guess...

 

[gmyers]

Probably nothing. Teams who didn't make the GPF have won medals before. It's hard, but it happens. Plus they're good enough to be on the Russian Team Event and can go for another gold that way.

Last two times it was a world champion team and a team that had fanatical supporters with the program of the season. Not true in b/s case. Obviously not world champion and with two hated programs. Team event isn’t respected in dance or at all. B/s get no Olympic gold medalists boost.

Both Ilinykh/Katsalapov and Domnina/Shabalin won Bronze at the Olympics after not making the GPF. Ok, one of them was the reigning World Champion and US #2 and #3 are much stronger now, but you never know what is going to happen.

You know b/s are going to get several bad levels and have no chance.

 

[bramweld]

Russian ice dance is just behind the world at the moment. B/S do not have Olympic level programs either by virtue of what Zhulin has given them or the fact that this is the best that they can do. But looking at their dances and that of S/K I've got to say that Zhulin is really the lazy one. Both their dances are almost carbon copies of each other, right down to the transitions. AMAZING. B/S should have left Russia when they had the chance or at the very least tried.

 

[Aqua Lady]

Happy to see the progress of Tiffany and Jon. I have a feeling that at Nationals, Russia #3 is gonna be between Z/G and P/M.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Well, I'm still scratching my head at their score in the non-touching steps in the SD. I don't disagree with anything from GOE and PCS, but that one just doesn't compute. Especially because it was called a four in real time, and the judges then took their sweet time to give the score later, and dock two levels at once.

 

[Marta25]

Happy to see the progress of Tiffany and Jon. I have a feeling that at Nationals, Russia #3 is gonna be between Z/G and P/M.

I think the #3 spot is still S/K to lose, but you never know with these two. They always seem to be on the brink of a disaster. After the Short Dance at CoC, I thought Z/G maybe have a chance, put their FD score wasn`t very high, although they messed up their spin, so that maybe explains the score. Anyway, I think Z/G have improved since last year and I`m looking forward to see if they can get into the top 3 in Russia in the next years.

 

[bramweld]

I think the #3 spot is still S/K to lose, but you never know with these two. They always seem to be on the brink of a disaster. After the Short Dance at CoC, I thought Z/G maybe have a chance, put their FD score wasn`t very high, although they messed up their spin, so that maybe explains the score. Anyway, I think Z/G have improved since last year and I`m looking forward to see if they can get into the top 3 in Russia in the next years.

This begs the question, what is Zhulin doing in his camp. S/K messed up their spin, step sequences and one of their lifts at their last competition. So does he lack adequate specialists or are the guys slacking off? Is he paying enough attention to them? B/S at the very least seem to be maximizing their potential. Oh well, apparently Russia doesn't care much about ice dance. My word look on what W/P did with their SD and FD in a matter of 2 - 3 weeks!!

 

[gmyers]

Russian ice dance is just behind the world at the moment. B/S do not have Olympic level programs either by virtue of what Zhulin has given them or the fact that this is the best that they can do. But looking at their dances and that of S/K I've got to say that Zhulin is really the lazy one. Both their dances are almost carbon copies of each other, right down to the transitions. AMAZING. B/S should have left Russia when they had the chance or at the very least tried.

This is a choice Russia is making! Almost Every other country fed knows to send their best to North America or North America copiers in Italy with Fusar poli! Why won’t b/s or s/b or z/g or l/d go to spiliband or zeuva or dubreil or krylova or Fusar poli?

 

[LadyB]

It always amazes me that so many Russian ice dance haters are actually bothering with this thread. Feeling bored? Needing a life?

I agree, B/S SD is debatable, but their FD is absolutely great and of Olympic quality. Nobody, probably not even the Shibs, can beat the likes of V/M and P/C, which have more WRs than other people hot dinners. Whether that is a normal and justified state of affairs, I don't know.
All I know is, B/S were underscored at CoC. I hope they have enough fighting spirit not to give up in their final year, and won't let the judges get to them.

 

[bramweld]

It always amazes me that so many Russian ice dance haters are actually bothering with this thread. Feeling bored? Needing a life?

I agree, B/S SD is debatable, but their FD is absolutely great and of Olympic quality. Nobody, probably not even the Shibs, can beat the likes of V/M and P/C, which have more WRs than other people hot dinners. Whether that is a normal and justified state of affairs, I don't know.
All I know is, B/S were underscored at CoC. I hope they have enough fighting spirit not to give up in their final year, and won't let the judges get to them.

Do you realize how fundamentally flawed their basics are and also the fact that they have no real transitions in that FD? They spend most of their time doing cross overs showing off Katya's poor posture. Do you realize that miming in ID is not new? It was the intricacy, the details and quality that set C/B and B/S apart. Do you realize that even though you can hardly spot a cross over with C/B's program it NEVER feels overchoreographed? And I am not a diehard C/B fan, okay? So please, we don't come on here to pick on B/S but rather to discuss what we see in Russian Ice Dance. And if you look at some of the comments, the majority point to Zhulin and his team for not addressing her/their issues.

 

[LadyB]

Do you realize how fundamentally flawed their basics are and also the fact that they have no real transitions in that FD? They spend most of their time doing cross overs showing off Katya's poor posture. Do you realize that miming in ID is not new? It was the intricacy, the details and quality that set C/B and B/S apart. Do you realize that even though you can hardly spot a cross over with C/B's program it NEVER feels overchoreographed? And I am not a diehard C/B fan, okay? So please, we don't come on here to pick on B/S but rather to discuss what we see in Russian Ice Dance. And if you look at some of the comments, the majority point to Zhulin and his team for not addressing her/their issues.

Deep breath! :handw:

 

[bramweld]

Deep breath! :handw:

Alright. It just bugs me with all the talent that they've had that Russia can't seem to get its act together. It's like they've locked themselves in a bubble and have no clue as to where ice dance is heading. It bugs me, but deep breath taken.

 

[moon]

Who taught Ilinykh and Katsalapov their basic skating skills growing up? They should be applauded. The first step is in choosing the skaters who actually have had these skills developed. Russia still seems to be favoring the old fashioned female dancer that is tall, thin without much musculature. The rest of the world has moved on and expects the female to provide strength and athleticism as well. Therefore intense off ice weight training, cardio and dance. I always used to think the Russian skating system was the most complete but now they need to change the the mind set of their athletes and coaches and impress upon them that they have to do more than just show up at the rink everyday or they will be left behind. Stop putting them on a pedestal and letting them run the show. Weaver and Poje didnt get their renewed Je Suis Malade together in 3 weeks by just showing up. They have a dogged determination to get the job done and devote themselves to that focus 24 hours a day.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Who taught Ilinykh and Katsalapov their basic skating skills growing up? They should be applauded. The first step is in choosing the skaters who actually have had these skills developed. Russia still seems to be favoring the old fashioned female dancer that is tall, thin without much musculature. The rest of the world has moved on and expects the female to provide strength and athleticism as well. Therefore intense off ice weight training, cardio and dance. I always used to think the Russian skating system was the most complete but now they need to change the the mind set of their athletes and coaches and impress upon them that they have to do more than just show up at the rink everyday or they will be left behind. Stop putting them on a pedestal and letting them run the show. Weaver and Poje didnt get their renewed Je Suis Malade together in 3 weeks by just showing up. They have a dogged determination to get the job done and devote themselves to that focus 24 hours a day.

I just think bringing Ilinykh and Katsalapov into the discussion at this point is completely unnecessary, for starters. They did win their medal, and no one is taking away that one, but I find them comparable do Adelina - which I love - they peaked at one moment in their career and then produced close to nothing before and after that one moment (you might want to compile their other medals, but a lot of skaters have produced the same or more without an Olympic podium). So yeah, while choosing the best skaters, with the best skills is a fantastic start, when you can't develop and improve on that it doesn't really matter that much?

Look at Gabriella Papadakis, she's far from the best skater in the world, especially if you put her close to the best women, but she gets the job done, doesn't she?

The problem doesn't really lie completely in the work of the coaches either, but I think it's more about the system, or the lack of one. We all mentioned good qualities about each training group in the past, but there was never a push to make them work together, or assist one another. I can't believe there's no way Russia can't produce a pair to fight for gold, but for that to happen they should have centralized ID, at least in some way. If it's feasible, I have no idea. Look at the work Marina and Igor produced when they were together in the US. They had the top two in their hands, which is the same that happens with the Montreal school right now, where they don't work alone either.

 

[moon]

I wasnt bringing Ilinykh and Katsalapov into the conversation to discuss as a team. Separately, they have wonderful blade skills and agility. I was wondering which coach taught each one of them their stroking and turns as young skaters. Whoever that person was needs to be used to develop skaters in Russia with better quality skills. Obviously, there is a talent that resides in each skater but teaching quality basic skating at an early age is about the best way they could start.

 

[coldblueeyes]

I wasnt bringing Ilinykh and Katsalapov into the conversation to discuss as a team. Separately, they have wonderful blade skills and agility. I was wondering which coach taught each one of them their stroking and turns as young skaters. Whoever that person was needs to be used to develop skaters in Russia with better quality skills. Obviously, there is a talent that resides in each skater but teaching quality basic skating at an early age is about the best way they could start.

I didn't say we should discuss them as a team. I just said that the person who taught them is as important as the next one in line. Is it important to teach stroking, posture, turns and use of the blades? Absolutely. But if there's not a support system to nurture these skaters into world-level medalists, then it doesn't really matter that much - which is why I said we can't really take I/K, their results and their quality into account. If we want the Russian ID school to go back to its glory, we can't settle for potential and one important title every four years, neither we want an army of fantastic young skaters that never develop into something more than that.

 

[gmyers]

It always amazes me that so many Russian ice dance haters are actually bothering with this thread. Feeling bored? Needing a life?

I agree, B/S SD is debatable, but their FD is absolutely great and of Olympic quality. Nobody, probably not even the Shibs, can beat the likes of V/M and P/C, which have more WRs than other people hot dinners. Whether that is a normal and justified state of affairs, I don't know.
All I know is, B/S were underscored at CoC. I hope they have enough fighting spirit not to give up in their final year, and won't let the judges get to them.

Russian ice dance success was my gateway into fs fandom in many ways. It was plushenko and grishuk and platov and pairs too but mostly g/p really! Why isn’t russia doing anything to be the most successful anymore? Because all success must be entirely by citizens of Russia and within Russia? Why can’t b/s move to dubreuil? She’s Canadian? They can’t go to spiliband or zueva because they are emigres? It’s weird because tarasova coached g/p in US but she never became American or an emigre really. And what about d/s in America with linichuk? I know why no skater would ever want to go to linichuk again but why not krylova? She seems more tarasova emigrant than spiliband like.

Judges don’t like b/s this season. The scores are saying this. They must immediately change programs and maybe coaches.

 

[lavoix]

Russian ice dance success was my gateway into fs fandom in many ways. It was plushenko and grishuk and platov and pairs too but mostly g/p really! Why isn’t russia doing anything to be the most successful anymore? Because all success must be entirely by citizens of Russia and within Russia? Why can’t b/s move to dubreuil? She’s Canadian? They can’t go to spiliband or zueva because they are emigres? It’s weird because tarasova coached g/p in US but she never became American or an emigre really. And what about d/s in America with linichuk? I know why no skater would ever want to go to linichuk again but why not krylova? She seems more tarasova emigrant than spiliband like.

Judges don’t like b/s this season. The scores are saying this. They must immediately change programs and maybe coaches.[/QUOTE]

Well they won't and that's a stupid recommendation on your part.

 

[gmyers]

Russian ice dance success was my gateway into fs fandom in many ways. It was plushenko and grishuk and platov and pairs too but mostly g/p really! Why isn’t russia doing anything to be the most successful anymore? Because all success must be entirely by citizens of Russia and within Russia? Why can’t b/s move to dubreuil? She’s Canadian? They can’t go to spiliband or zueva because they are emigres? It’s weird because tarasova coached g/p in US but she never became American or an emigre really. And what about d/s in America with linichuk? I know why no skater would ever want to go to linichuk again but why not krylova? She seems more tarasova emigrant than spiliband like.

Judges don’t like b/s this season. The scores are saying this. They must immediately change programs and maybe coaches.

Well they won't and that's a stupid recommendation on your part.

Why wouldn’t they do what is necesssry? What have they been working for? For what did he return from injury and her from banning for it not to maximize potential. Best way to maximize potential is changing of programs or coaching or both.