2017 GP Internationaux de France Ladies FS

[Sam-Skwantch]

quality... it's not just quantity that matters.. it's also leaving the sense that there are transitions throughout the whole program...

Since panels vary from event to event it’s likley we may see this vary once again this season. Not a big deal when the scores are this close. Likley the judges just noticed something on the ice because both girls can score very high in this particular component for very different reasons.

 

[Ender]

With the way this season is going so far is it possible that RUS can sweep the Ladies medals at the Olympics? Not looking good for either Osmond or Daleman to be in the mix.

Don’t be fooled by GP series though. My biggest lesson over many years of FS is that... Olympic is unpredictable. Those who do well at GP series might not do well at the Olympics. And those who mess GP series might end up on the Olympic podium lol

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Osmong got higher score than Alina in transitions

Note that transitions also alludes to quality of transitions. Alina has a good variety of transitions but she rushes and doesn't always complete them. I still think she's about on par with Osmond in that department.

 

[Eclair]

I’m a big fan of Wakababy and not really all that into Alina but I don’t see an iron clad reason why either one should score higher than the other. I find Alina a bit more impressive but Wakaba a bit more enjoyable if we are discussing presentation. . I’m not a believer in these wild conspiracies I keep reading and while Wakababy is one of my favorites this season I don’t think Alina outscoring her is anything out of place. I’d say the same if it were the other way.

I'm not discussing interpretation as this is subjective. I'm speaking about SS which is used to justify Osmond high PCS, Carolina's high PCS even with several falls, Gracie's high PCS even without any presentation. But now Wakaba has those Skating Skills (have you seen her deep edges? her flow? her speed?) and it just gets ignored.

Then consistency is always the argument why Evgenia gets her high PCS, because let's be honest, her choreography and SS are not 10's. Now Wakaba has this consistency and doesn't get a PCS boost either.

Then it's always the TR that is said to be reason why Alina gets her high PCS. Now Wakaba has TR maybe not 100% as many as Alina, but her TR are of better quality than Evgenia's and she has just as many. No PCS either.

 

[quadrupleaxel15]

With the way this season is going so far is it possible that RUS can sweep the Ladies medals at the Olympics? Not looking good for either Osmond or Daleman to be in the mix.

I was just thinking this. I think Sotskova can be beaten and I don't think she will medal at the Olympics, I probably think this because we always see her being very good but never perfect with a wow factor. But if Polina is really good as some make her to be and Russian Federation would allow 3 Eteri girls to represent Russia we might possibly get not only a Russian sweep but an Eteri sweep.

It's highly unlikely as it depends on many things, but it's not unthinkable either.

 

[russianfan]

I was just thinking this. I think Sotskova can be beaten and I don't think she will medal at the Olympics, I probably think this because we always see her being very good but never perfect with a wow factor. But if Polina is really good as some make her to be and Russian Federation would allow 3 Eteri girls to represent Russia we might possibly get not only a Russian sweep but an Eteri sweep.

It's highly unlikely as it depends on many things, but it's not unthinkable either.

it's very optimistic to say at least, but also it doesn't look unrealistic... let's see how Polina does in America... this may answer many questions

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

1. Terrific job by Nichole!!

2. Oh Liza. Oh well, at least she wasn't last in the FS... On the Olympic Channel, Tracy said that Liza was the 'only' woman doing the 3A. Guess she's missed Mirai's performances...

3. Laurine - I just don't like Marilyn Monroe programs but she did a good job in committing to the character. Started out well but then started to meltdown some on the jumps...

4. Mae - I live for that costume change and that totally clashing set of music cuts!! One popped jump, maybe some URs but otherwise good job overall!

5. Oh Polina Still, she fought hard and showed true grit considering she was out for so long. I was thinking that Polina has such lovely, lyrical long lines, very graceful with very good edges (she knows how to twizzle!). I wonder if she would ever consider Ice Dancing?

6. Mai!! Fantastic skate!! Still a little juniorish but maturing every day!!

7. Alina - Brava Beautiful Ballerina! Sensational skate! Loved it!! :luv17: Well deserved gold!

The backloading Russian skaters who hit are being rewarded with huge points in the bonus from one international judging panel after another - so why stop? Same thing with the arm overhead jumps. As long as the judges keep rewarding those, I get why the skaters will keep right on doing them. Maybe some U.S. skaters ought to start backloading a little - once URs are under control. I've noticed skaters like Ashley and Karen are already doing some arm overhead jumps. Mirai and Co. may as well join in the fun too..

LOVE her 3L-3R! And her Rippon jumps! Lovely!

8. Elizabet - why oh why does she wear her stockings over her ankles like that? It looks so sloppy and unfinished! And Elizabet is anything but! She is a lovely skater! She still looks a tiny bit junior to me but that could be due to her tiny size which she can't really help. Terrific skate!! Well deserved score! Lovely and lyrical! Mom is a riot!! She's great!

9. Yuna S. Technically terrific, artistically didn't really do much for me but she sold it well. Woops on the near accident with the board! Funny glitch there, lost focus for a sec but got it back then had the unfortunate fall on the 3R near the end. Good but not great skate. She did receive a SB!

10. Maria - Love her dress! So much better than the pink one she wore for the SP - which I thought didn't seem particularly balletic considering her music. Love love love her long lovely lines, powerful jumper - and I love that she doesn't backload! The arm overhead could be better but her program is so well balanced that I'll take it!

Claire de Lune is perfect for Maria! She was exquisite! Quiet loveliness! :luv17: Congrats on winning silver Maria!

11. Kaetlyn - Tremendous speed, HUGE jumper but not a fan of her Black Swan. She's just not balletic or graceful enough for the character imo. Nor darkly dramatic enough like a Wagner. I just can't buy her as a somber Black Swan. I didn't like that bent over move she did at the end of the rink before her straight line step sequence - didn't look elegant to me. I do like her costume though and I'm glad it's not a tutu which wouldn't suit her. Overall, this Swan fell sort of flat for me. I like her Piaf SP much better. Osmond is so bubbly, upbeat and energetic! That style suits her much better.

I noticed that Canadian commentator Tracy Wilson was strangely silent whenever Kaetlyn made a mistake - when she turned out on the second jump of her 2A-3T combo early on and when she fell on her 3R. Up to that point Tracy seemed quite talkative when other skaters made mistakes. The male commentator (Steve?) said after Kaetlyn's fall that 'one of her liabilities was being unable to skate a full clean long program'. Tracy ignored his comment and only spoke up again when Kaetlyn went for her next jump, the 3F and nailed it. Wilson called it 'beautiful'. Except on the final 2A which Kaetlyn popped to a single and on the replays when Wilson finally commented on the mistakes...anyway, the SP saved her, congrats on bronze to Kaetlyn!

So many ladies over 200 after yesterday's subpar performances possibly due to bad ice! So many SBs or even PBs! Nothing wrong with the ice today!! There were a couple of poor skates early on but mostly great skates overall! Really enjoyed this FS!

 

[Roast Toast]

The point is -- the defense for some of these scores is always: just backload, do transitions, do arm variations, be consistent and your scores will rise as well! Except this obviously happens selectively to some skaters only. I'm not singling out the Russian ladies here as I enjoy them. But the rallying cry of their stans has always been "consistency!!!!". Well, Alina hasn't skated a clean short in four straight competitions and she keeps getting PBs! While Wakaba seems to lose momentum the cleaner she goes... Or take the apparent holy grail of PCS, the transitions score: how come this argument no longer applies when J/C do unique, insanely difficult transitions, but their PCS remains lower than T/M who could barely get through a step sequence at this event without tripping all over themselves? Alina quite obviously deserved to win this event with a clean FP, that program is incredible. But stop pretending that her scores' rise is consistent with the rest of the field.

 

[yume]

I'm not discussing interpretation as this is subjective. I'm speaking about SS which is used to justify Osmond high PCS, Carolina's high PCS even with several falls, Gracie's high PCS even without any presentation. But now Wakaba has those Skating Skills (have you seen her deep edges? her flow? her speed?) and it just gets ignored.

Then consistency is always the argument why Evgenia gets her high PCS, because let's be honest, her choreography and SS are not 10's. Now Wakaba has this consistency and doesn't get a PCS boost either.

Then it's always the TR that is said to be reason why Alina gets her high PCS. Now Wakaba has TR maybe not 100% as many as Alina, but her TR are of better quality than Evgenia's and she has just as many. No PCS either.

The point is -- the defense for some of these scores is always: just backload, do transitions, do arm variations, be consistent and your scores will rise as well! Except this obviously happens selectively to some skaters only. I'm not singling out the Russian ladies here as I enjoy them. But the rallying cry of their stans has always been "consistency!!!!". Well, Alina hasn't skated a clean short in four straight competitions and she keeps getting PBs! While Wakaba seems to lose momentum the cleaner she goes... Or take the apparent holy grail of PCS, the transitions score: how come this argument no longer applies when J/C do unique, insanely difficult transitions, but their PCS remains lower than T/M who could barely get through a step sequence at this event without tripping all over themselves? Alina quite obviously deserved to win this event with a clean FP, that program is incredible. But stop pretending that her scores' rise is consistent with the rest of the field.

+1000
I did the same remarks in COC thread.

 

[Ender]

The scores for Japanese ladies are incompressibly low. I am so tired of this. Judges should feel ashamed. Mihara should have been above Osmond in the free. Her biggest fault was that she skated before Zagitova thus judges saved scores for their favorites.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Then it's always the TR that is said to be reason why Alina gets her high PCS. Now Wakaba has TR maybe not 100% as many as Alina, but her TR are of better quality than Evgenia's and she has just as many. No PCS either.

Didn’t Wakaba get higher PCS than Alina when they skated head to head? Virtually the same but Wakaba did score higher in CoC by about a point when adding up both long and short programs.

I’m more concerned about her scores compared to Caro who is being spotted close to 10pts when they faced each other and you add up both programs in PCS. Wakaba clean vs Caro skating messy. She hasn’t faced Kaetlyn yet but Masha has and I consider Masha and Wakababy to be on pretty equal footing in the scheme of things.

 

[chuckm]

Likely true, as is the fact that not every fan thinks Kaetlyn and others have NO CHANCE, against the Russians, as Miss Ice has just declared. As the British announcers mentioned during the SP commentating, a clean Kaetlyn is as good as a Med. And yes, we have yet to see both clean this season. Can you imagine when we do...

I don't recall EVER seeing two clean programs in one competition from Kaetlyn---when has she ever had a clean FS? So truly, "a clean Kaetlyn" is an oxymoron.

OTOH, Medvedeva rarely makes mistakes. That she's had a few this season is very, very unusual.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

I don't recall EVER seeing two clean programs in one competition from Kaetlyn---when has she ever had a clean FS? So truly, "a clean Kaetlyn" is an oxymoron.

OTOH, Medvedeva rarely makes mistakes. That she's had a few this season is very, very unusual.

2010 apparently...

 

[OS]

Didn’t Wakaba get higher PCS than Alina when they skated head to head? Virtually the same but Wakaba did score higher in CoC by about a point when adding up both long and short programs.

I’m more concerned about her scores compared to Caro who is being spotted close to 10pts when they faced each other and you add up both programs in PCS. Wakaba clean vs Caro skating messy. She hasn’t faced Kaetlyn yet but Masha has and I consider Masha and Wakababy to be on pretty equal footing in the scheme of things.

The weird thing is Alina had ALWAYS lost PCS in the junior circuit to Marin Honda, and yes she did lose to Wakaba in the beginning of the season, but despite the same junior program, it inexplicably received boost, now it is at Mao's FS at Sochi level 69+. WHAT A FARCE!!!

There's this tendency whenever she does badly in SP, the judges will over compensate her in FS in PCS to ensure she still lead, that result in inflation, WHILE ALSO actively deflate her direct competitors including Wakaba with lower PCS than they deserve despite better performances, better programs and consistency.

Case point CoC, she beat Wakaba (who had 68.20at Rosteldom cup against tougher competition, Carolina and Evegenia) here

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/gpchn2017/gpchn2017_Ladies_FS_Scores.pd

And then again here over Mai who's the 2 times victim - going head to head where Mai would win PCS in the SP, Alina coming 6th or 7th in the SP, but by FS in order to prop up Alina, her PCS will suddenly shoot up to be 1st in ranking while most of her the potential rivals receive deflation. It is not just inflation that is the problem, but actively deflate others out of the way is a clear sign of score manipulation for fed interests. You can see it in the protocols. How she screw up the SP actually ends up benefit her PCS boost.

Under common sense, these sort of strategic marking judges should be punished (since it has little to do with what goes on the ice), but there's so much room for plausible deniability and apparent 'subjectivity' (which is rubbish, when you actively mark down other's superior programs and outings), the judges continue to get away with while ISU convenient turning a blind eye when it suits them.

Carol has been used as a benchmark holder to justify bouncing higher PCS at Europeans Championship. It is the cushion and the buffer board but she will never be a threat. Just as they will use the excuse they had Sochi where quantity should triumph over quality, and that some how PCS is supposed to reflect TES which is another ridiculous thing I won't even bother going into.

 

[Ender]

Mai Mihara and Wakaba Higuchi were the biggest victims of this GP series. Mihara lost 2 bronzes. Higuchi lost a silver and a gold.

 

[zanadude]

Polina T. or Wagner not winning is not realistic at all.

Neither is Daleman medalling at Worlds. Oh, wait...

The scores for Japanese ladies are incompressibly low. I am so tired of this. Judges should feel ashamed.

As is said so often here, don't hate the player, hate the game. Japan needs to get with the program and start training and composing their programs like the Russians do.

 

[mirai4life]

Mai Mihara and Wakaba Higuchi were the biggest victims of this GP series. Mihara lost 2 bronzes. Higuchi lost a silver and a gold.

and most likely a GPF spot. and yes @ Mihara!!!! poor girl.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Mai Mihara and Wakaba Higuchi were the biggest victims of this GP series. Mihara lost 2 bronzes. Higuchi lost a silver and a gold.

After watching Mai three times now I don’t think she is on the same level as Wakaba and has an even less dynamic presentation than Masha. Maybe there is a case that she could have placed ahead of Kaetlyn but good luck with that because it can only lead to a Kaetlyn PCS conversation. No thanks.

Even though judging doesn’t work this way I went ahead and compared the PCS for Masha and Mai and they virtually tied in the SP and Masha topped her in the FS by about 3pts. That doesn’t seem that off to me and there were no judging anomalies I noticed. We probably differ here but Alina averaging ~8.75 vs Mai averaging ~8.0 doesn’t upset me.

My opinion on Mai is that she could improve her delivery because there wasn’t much excitement or wow to speak of in the FS and she could add a bit more emphasis in her movements. This beautiful style she has doesn’t need to lack the power and wow that others have. Look at Wakaba for example. Some of her jumps lacked secure landings and overall her skating just seems safe in relation the competitors who are edging her out. No she doesn’t need a transition packed program or acrobatic skating skills. She just needs to sell those movements a little better to entice the judges the same as anyone else.. Just my two cents

 

[Blades of Passion]

Poor Mai, robbed of another Bronze medal.

In general this event showed that Ladies skating is simply not interesting anymore. There really isn't a single program worth being very excited about this season.

 

[Harriet]

Just got caught up with some videos from last night...I don't think I'll ever be able to connect the two halves of Mae-Berenice's program to each other, but she had fun, skated better and got better scores than at Rostelecom, and was happy with what she did, and I'm absolutely thrilled for her.

Poor Laurine, though - looks like revising the FS too was a step too far right now. I know her original music wasn't to everyone's taste, but at least the first version of the program was a coherent piece and she could sell the character of it well, and was doing better each time she performed it. The new music cuts are jarring and between them and the new choreography it seemed to me that she lost the feel of the program along with her landing feet. If she goes back to the drawing board again, maybe it would be better to scrap Marilyn altogether and start from scratch on something new...