2017 U.S. Nationals Championship Men SP

[el henry]

I know, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. If someone doesn't skate well under pressure, they should not make the team over someone who does. I know it doesn't happen often and the only time I remember it happening was with Mirai and Ashley. However, that was for an Olympic spot and this is not. I hope they let the scores determine the winner.

I would agree with that, which is one of the reasons, I think, why Jason has won or placed higher than all the other US men, except Nathan, in head to head comps this year. He was injured when he skated against Nathan, but even if not, I am under no illusions that a clean Jason beats a clean Nathan.

You may prefer Max, which is fine, Max has many virtues, but on what do you base any opinion or expectation that Jason does not skate well under pressure?

 

[mrrice]

I would agree with that, which is one of the reasons, I think, why Jason has won or placed higher than all the other US men, except Nathan, in head to head comps this year. He was injured when he skated against Nathan, but even if not, I am under no illusions that a clean Jason beats a clean Nathan.

You may prefer Max, which is fine, Max has many virtues, but on what do you base any opinion or expectation that Jason does not skate well under pressure?

You know, as a Joshua Fan, I've had a long history with Jason. In fact, with Kori and Rohene as well. I have seen, and been in close proximity to Jason and his team on more than one occasion. As much as I wanted to find something I didn't like, they were all just too nice. Rohene is gorgeous and has a perfect smile.. You've heard the story of my brief encounter with Jason while wearing my "I love Joshua" Sweat Shirt. He just laughed... He is seriously as sweet as candy.

Me feeling during a Non-Olympic season is that the numbers should determine the team. But, that just me. I'll understand if things go a different way. By the way, I have NEVER seen Jason skate badly and other than Joshua, I've seen Jason live, more than any other skater in my life.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Me feeling during a Non-Olympic season is that the numbers should determine the team. But, that just me. I'll understand if things go a different way.

The placements at worlds this year determine the number of spots for next year. So it sorta is an "Olympic Season"

 

[mrrice]

Or in 2014.

Is there a reason Jason didn't go to WTT that season? I know it was after the Olympics but was he injured? Or did they select Max to go?

 

[Tavi...]

Is there a reason Jason didn't go to WTT that season? I know it was after the Olympics but was he injured? Or did they select Max to go?

They selected Max to go instead of Jason. It's very very unusual. If I recall, someone said that the last time that happened was in 1992 when Paul Wylie was sent to Olympics but not Worlds.

 

[mrrice]

They selected Max to go instead of Jason. It's very very unusual. If I recall, someone said that the last time that happened was in 1992 when Paul Wylie was sent to Olympics but not Worlds.

Thanks Tavi, I swear that I learn something every time I come on this site.

 

[ice coverage]

They selected Max to go instead of Jason. It's very very unusual. If I recall, someone said that the last time that happened was in 1992 when Paul Wylie was sent to Olympics but not Worlds.

Additional context from 2014, which was an unusual year:

- The pairs placements at Nats were Castelli/Shnapir, first; Zhang/Bartholomay second; Denney/Coughlin third.
- The two Olympic spots were given to C/S and Z/B.
- The two Worlds spots were given to C/S and D/C, with Z/B as the first alternates. (After the Olympics were over, D/C withdrew from their Worlds slot b/c of injury, and Z/B did end up going to Worlds.)

- And of course, we all know that Mirai placed third at Nats, with Ashley fourth.
- Mirai was given neither an Olympic slot or a Worlds slot.
- Ashley was given both.​

 

[karne]

Karne. Jason didn't compete and wasn't on the Worlds Team last year. Max was.

And Max had a National title stolen from him because - because why? His only error the whole weekend was a doubled Salchow. Meanwhile the "winner" was someone with sloppy URs and who fell on his backside. Max has no margin for error, as was proven last year. That was my point. Jason will have some margin, Nathan will have some margin, but Max will have none.

Is there a reason Jason didn't go to WTT that season? I know it was after the Olympics but was he injured? Or did they select Max to go?

Max was selected, but it was then and still is my firm belief that the USFS expected Jeremy to retire after the Olympics and to have a Worlds team of Jason/Max.

 

[ice coverage]

Championship Men
Short Program
Start order

Start time: Jan 20, 7:30 PM Central Standard Time
 
1 Alexander Johnson, Braemar-City of Lakes FSC
2 Tomoki Hiwatashi, DuPage FSC
3 Andrew Torgashev, Panthers FSC
4 Timothy Dolensky, Atlanta FSC
5 Sean Rabbitt, Glacier Falls FSC
6 Oleksiy Melnyk, Washington FSC
7 Dennis Phan, Birmingham FSC
8 Jimmy Ma, SC of New York
9 Shotaro Omori, Los Angeles FSC
10 Daniel Kulenkamp, Sun Valley FSC
11 Max Aaron, Broadmoor SC
12 Sebastien Payannet, Rocky Mountain FSC
13 Scott Dyer, All Year FSC
14 Grant Hochstein, SC of New York
15 Vincent Zhou, SC of San Francisco
16 Emmanuel Savary, University of Delaware FSC
17 Kevin Shum, SC of Boston
18 Nathan Chen, Salt Lake Figure Skating
19 Jordan Moeller, Northern Ice SC
20 Ross Miner, SC of Boston
21 Jason Brown, Skokie Valley SC
 
posted Wednesday, Jan 18, 2017, 02:18 PM Central Standard Time

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2017/24267/CAT018SEG038.html

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Good luck to everyone :yay:. (Especially to Max :luv17:.)

 

[Mrs. P]

Oh I like this skate order -- The top contenders in the last two groups. Jason gets to respond to what ever Nathan, Max and Vincent present before him.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I can't be the only person who thinks that a clean Max will beat Nathan, Can I? I definitely see Nathan on the team but I still think Max is the Man.

You're not the only person. I can't say I'm with you, but I know there are others who are Max fans and think highly of his skating in comparison to his competition.

Max was selected, but it was then and still is my firm belief that the USFS expected Jeremy to retire after the Olympics and to have a Worlds team of Jason/Max.

I think we discussed this before, but I really don't see the logic in that because they could have just kept the Olympic team the same as the World team and the end result would have been the same if they were banking on Jeremy retiring after the Olympics, and it would have avoided people talking about the somewhat controversial selection. I think it was clear they wanted to guarantee Max a spot at Worlds.

 

[karne]

Oh I like this skate order -- The top contenders in the last two groups. Jason gets to respond to what ever Nathan, Max and Vincent present before him.

I hate this skate order. There's Max, buried in the middle, well away from the other contenders. That's bad news.

I think we discussed this before, but I really don't see the logic in that because they could have just kept the Olympic team the same as the World team and the end result would have been the same if they were banking on Jeremy retiring after the Olympics, and it would have avoided people talking about the somewhat controversial selection. I think it was clear they wanted to guarantee Max a spot at Worlds.

But if they had named the Worlds team as Jason and Jeremy and then Jeremy had not retired, that would have meant Max got NO post-Nationals assignments AT ALL. Wouldn't that just have been a wonderful message for the international judges? Hey, we hate our bronze medallist so much that in addition to breaking his heart, we'll not give him anything at all!

 

[cheerknithanson]

When was the last time a men's singles skater won US nationals when he was under 18? Because Nathan Chen won't turn 18 until May of this year.

Update: Okay I just did some research on Wikipedia....and it turned out the last time this happened was 1963.

 

[mrrice]

Horrible draw for my dark horse pick Alex Johnson. I hope the judges are awake and not afraid to give him a decent number if he lays down a solid program. Max.......The worst draw for a skater of his caliber. Smack Dab in the middle with Grant, Nathan, Jason, Ross, and Vincent all to follow....I hope he lays down a strong debut of his new SP. I'm suddenly very nervous for him.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

But if they had named the Worlds team as Jason and Jeremy and then Jeremy had not retired, that would have meant Max got NO post-Nationals assignments AT ALL. Wouldn't that just have been a wonderful message for the international judges? Hey, we hate our bronze medallist so much that in addition to breaking his heart, we'll not give him anything at all!

But that's the way it's always been done when there are only two spots absent extenuating circumstances like medical byes...at least it was unusual before 2014 when things sort of went crazy. I mean they didn't bother naming Denney/Coughlin who also won bronze to the World team and were former champions and competed at the world level prior to 2014. When there are three spots, a federation isn't sending the international judges a message that they hate their 4th place finisher. So if there are only two spots, and a skater or team placed third, they aren't sending a message that they hate someone if they just went with the top two. It seems an exception was made for Max and Ashley even if they had a procedure in place giving the team selection committee discretion to use it as they see fit. They used their discretion in favor of Ashley and to a lesser extent Max.

 

[Mrs. P]

But that's the way it's always been done when there are only two spots absent extenuating circumstances like medical byes...at least it was unusual before 2014 when things sort of went crazy. I mean they didn't bother naming Denney/Coughlin who also won bronze to the World team and were former champions and competed at the world level prior to 2014. When there are three spots, a federation isn't sending the international judges a message that they hate their 4th place finisher. So if there are only two spots, and a skater or team placed third, they aren't sending a message that they hate someone if they just went with the top two. It seems an exception was made for Max and Ashley even if they had a procedure in place giving the team selection committee discretion to use it as they see fit. They used their discretion in favor of Ashley and to a lesser extent Max.

Actually, they did give Denney/Coughlin the Worlds spot, but they didn't use it because of injury.

Honestly, if USFS was sending any message, is that they trusted Denney/Coughlin and Aaron to secure World team for Team USA next season than they did for national breakouts Barthlomay/Zhang and Brown (and I think most didn't expect them to end up on the Olympic team, honestly)

.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Actually, they did give Denney/Coughlin the Worlds spot, but they didn't use it because of injury.

Honestly, if USFS was sending any message, is that they trusted Denney/Coughlin and Aaron to secure World team for Team USA next season than they did for national breakouts Barthlomay/Zhang and Brown (and I think most didn't expect them to end up on the Olympic team, honestly)

.

Ah, you're right. 2014 was different from most years where the Olympic Team and Worlds Team were the same absent medical byes.

 

[da96103]

When was the last time a men's singles skater won US nationals when he was under 18? Because Nathan Chen won't turn 18 until May of this year.

Update: Okay I just did some research on Wikipedia....and it turned out the last time this happened was 1963.

Was that the first nationals after the plane crash?

 

[StitchMonkey]

Was that the first nationals after the plane crash?

The crash was in 1961 so two years later.

 

[deedee1]

Championship Men
Short Program
Start order

Start time: Jan 20, 7:30 PM Central Standard Time
 
1 Alexander Johnson, Braemar-City of Lakes FSC
2 Tomoki Hiwatashi, DuPage FSC
3 Andrew Torgashev, Panthers FSC
4 Timothy Dolensky, Atlanta FSC
5 Sean Rabbitt, Glacier Falls FSC
6 Oleksiy Melnyk, Washington FSC
7 Dennis Phan, Birmingham FSC
8 Jimmy Ma, SC of New York
9 Shotaro Omori, Los Angeles FSC
10 Daniel Kulenkamp, Sun Valley FSC
11 Max Aaron, Broadmoor SC
12 Sebastien Payannet, Rocky Mountain FSC
13 Scott Dyer, All Year FSC
14 Grant Hochstein, SC of New York
15 Vincent Zhou, SC of San Francisco
16 Emmanuel Savary, University of Delaware FSC
17 Kevin Shum, SC of Boston
18 Nathan Chen, Salt Lake Figure Skating
19 Jordan Moeller, Northern Ice SC
20 Ross Miner, SC of Boston
21 Jason Brown, Skokie Valley SC
 
posted Wednesday, Jan 18, 2017, 02:18 PM Central Standard Time

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2017/24267/CAT018SEG038.html

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Good luck to everyone :yay:. (Especially to Max :luv17:.)

Thanks for the starting order.
Noooo, there are so many boys I want to cheer for! which is understandable I'd say since I have watched US Nats since 2009 every year. esp. I look forward to performances by those who did advance to the Nats so that we can see and enjoy at this particular competition. :yes:

Good luck to all boys!