2017 Worlds Entries

[littlesheep]

Ziquan Zhao is back on the list instead of Zijun Li .... too bad for China not sure Ziquan and Xiangning can obtain 2 spots for Olympics
Zijun Li injured ?

I don't think she's injured. From what I read, the Chinese fans suspected that it might be a political decision from the Chinese federation.
I am really sad for Zijun. :sad4:

 

[silverfoxes]

I don't think she's injured. From what I read, the Chinese fans suspected that it might be a political decision from the Chinese federation.
I am really sad for Zijun. :sad4:

Political for what reason? Why would they shoot themselves in the foot like that? Justice for Zijun! (if true)

 

[SamuraiKike]

Damn, the chances for 2 CHN spots in ladies were not that high but now they are down to zero... Poor Zijun

 

[twirlingblades]

Satoko

 

[chuckm]

Damn, the chances for 2 CHN spots in ladies were not that high but now they are down to zero... Poor Zijun

Here's how they did at 4CC 2017 and JW 2017:

4CC (21 skaters)

11 Xiangning LI CHN 55.73 32.70 24.03 6.25 5.79 6.11 6.00 5.89 3f+3t, 3z↓, 2a
12 Xiangning LI CHN 109.12 58.77 50.35 6.46 6.04 6.36 6.29 6.32 3f, 3z, 3lo, 2a+1lo+3s, 3f+rep, 3s+2t
13 164.85


15 Ziquan ZHAO CHN 49.97 27.15 23.82 6.04 5.68 6.00 5.93 6.14 3t+3t<, 3lo<↓, 2a
15 Ziquan ZHAO CHN 97.40 52.75 45.65 5.96 5.46 5.71 5.71 5.68 3z, 2a+1lo+3s<↓, 3lo, 3t, 3lo+2t, 3t+2t, 2a
15 147.37

JW (44 skaters)

12 Xiangning LI CHN 54.24 29.79 24.45 6.29 5.79 6.21 6.14 6.14 3f+3t<, 3lo<, 2a
11 Xiangning LI CHN 96.79 50.89 46.90 6.14 5.54 5.89 5.89 5.86 3f+3t<, 3z!<↓, 3lo<, 2a+1lo+3s, 2a+2lo, 3f<
11 151.03

 

[el henry]

Thanks for understanding what I aimed to express.... I think I wrote my post too late but that's exactly what I mean. I think having a 4th or 5th spot would very difficult for the same reasons as making the 3rd spot more reachable.

No system is perfect for the simple reason that various countries have different peaks in different disciplines.... Ice dance is so strong right now in the USA... but that doesn't mean we should change the rules right? because it wasn't always that strong... I find the system to be working most of the times honestly. When it is heartbreaking it's when there is a flop from a top skater.... but that wasn't the case with US men... it was actually a surprised that all 3 ended up in the top 10.... so rejoicing seems more appropriate than nagging the system for not rewarding a "special" result.

Maybe a surprise to others? I predicted three US men in the top ten last year, not *just* because I love the US men (although I do) but because I knew they were strong enough to do it and because all those BVs and point totaling and planned layouts don't mean diddly boop if they aren't landed in a comp. I had zero expectation (as I do now) that all those jumps will be landed.

So to me it was far more heartbreaking to see the US men not rewarded with a third spot for their foreseeable efforts. Although I will always be able to rewatch (and I often do) Grant's SOHL.

 

[Tahuu]

Political for what reason? Why would they shoot themselves in the foot like that? Justice for Zijun! (if true)

Since she is the alternate she must be fit to complete. Maybe Zijun telling the truth of her training and fasting (http://milquetoasted.tumblr.com/post/158646020611/big-people-zijun-li-growing-and-training-alone) makes the Chinese fed feel losing their face, which seems more important to them than getting two spots for the Olympics next year and they use it as a punishment to her.

 

[Ice Dance]

No system is perfect for the simple reason that various countries have different peaks in different disciplines.... Ice dance is so strong right now in the USA... but that doesn't mean we should change the rules right? because it wasn't always that strong... I find the system to be working most of the times honestly.

Yes, I am fine with the system. It is a bit short-sighted when it comes to injuries and junior athletes moving up, but it is fair. Better, I think, than the previous system of three spots per medal--as often those weren't necessarily a sign of depth.

I simply think it is important to be clear about why I think the system is fine. I think the system is fine because it provides for the possibility of the three best athletes in the World to earn medals. And to me, ultimately, Worlds demands two things. 1. It must include athletes that represent the World. The Grand Prix Final is a lesser event, IMO, precisely because of the far more limited field. And 2. Worlds reflects the best athletes in the World. That does not happen in gymnastics today, where the third highest qualifier is cut if he/she is from the same team. I want to see diversity on the podium as much as anyone, but short-circuiting the chance of one of the top three is not my view of how to get it.

Having said all that, we can look at the field for specific seasons and see examples of serious issues for specific seasons:
-Satoko will be out. Marin Honda is one of the best juniors in the World. Mao has also faced injury this season. It's plausible that Japan could have three medal contenders next year, and not get them because two of their best hopes are unable to compete at Worlds this season.
-China had three of the best teams in the World in 2014. Sui & Han stayed home as the result of two injuries (theirs & Pang & Tong's the year before). S&H won 4CCs in 2014 with one of the highest pairs scores of the year.

So there are flaws, and sometimes the repercussions hurt the sport. I think it is OK to point them out--to mourn the absence of a Grand Prix Final qualifying team like Peng & Jin. To even mourn the absence of athletes like Samohin and Hurtado & Diaz.

It's just that--as I believe was the heart of your post--it's not a grave injustice that those athletes can't be there. More a reality of sport. A system that does its best but cannot account for every possibility.


I believe ice dance has a chance of developing in Asia. But it won't happen by reducing the quality of skating required to reach the top. It may happen by . . . 1. Having the Olympics in Asia twice in a row, 2. Having younger Asian athletes see Asian teams and athletes of Asian decent rise within the discipline (the shattering of the last glass ceiling of sorts), 3. Quality dance coaching for Asian athletes at a younger age.

The third is the most important and the hardest to accomplish. Italy and France have young coaches training with top coaches in different countries in the hope of improving their own programs back home. I would like to see China & Korea consider that path. Perhaps the young team of Lee & Kam may be able to generate momentum for Korean ice dance. Perhaps one of the international partners--like Gamelin or Minov--may help raise the quality or profile of skating in Asia, similar to the ways that Tchernyshev and Tanith Belbin have helped raise it in the United States. The top Chinese dance teams have been training with top coaches for many years. Perhaps some of that knowledge can help. In Japan, I think limited space on the ice is a serious issue, limiting most initial training to singles. But one step at a time. Perhaps, the next young talent will watch the Olympics and not dream of becoming Mao, but of becoming Maia.

 

[4everchan]

if you are mourning hurtado and diaz, you will forever mourn ^^^

 

[zanadude]

First time I've heard of a person being replaced replacing someone else!

 

[Chemistry66]

First time I've heard of a person being replaced replacing someone else!

I'm still confused as to how they could pull Ziquan Zhao for Xiangning Li, THEN pull Zijun Li and substitute in the already-pulled Zhao AND put the pulled Zijun Li in as a substitute after she'd previously been an entry.

There's two weird things: Zhao being re-entered after being already removed, and Zijun Li being able to be entered as a substitute after already being removed

 

[randomfan]

Since she is the alternate she must be fit to complete. Maybe Zijun telling the truth of her training and fasting (http://milquetoasted.tumblr.com/post/158646020611/big-people-zijun-li-growing-and-training-alone) makes the Chinese fed feel losing their face, which seems more important to them than getting two spots for the Olympics next year and they use it as a punishment to her.

Thank you for the link Tahuu. But reading it breaks my heart... Even at the end when she said she wanted to open a supermarket...Why? Because she said they had the biggest packages of food. Zijun could have probably meant this as a small laugh, and I smiled when I first saw it too. But after a few seconds I realized that this could also be a sign of desperation for food. Starving with her mother back in the days and being unable to sleep would have been a big trauma that I'd never be able to experience. It's heartbreaking that one of my favourite skaters had to suffer so much.

But the reality is that every athlete can (and will) go through so many struggles such as diet, training environment, social life, etc.. Often, those hidden stories of their careers would not be even revealed. To this day, there could be some skaters whose lives could have been hell while training and yet people did not ever know about them at all. The thought of this sickens me.

Sorry for the topic:, now let's get back on track. I can't believe that the Chinese Federation is actually this insane! The important thing is that China gets 2 spots for next year...how is kicking the top ladies skater off the team even something that could be considered?

 

[Violet Bliss]

I don't think she's injured. From what I read, the Chinese fans suspected that it might be a political decision from the Chinese federation.
I am really sad for Zijun. :sad4:

Since she is the alternate she must be fit to complete. Maybe Zijun telling the truth of her training and fasting (http://milquetoasted.tumblr.com/post/158646020611/big-people-zijun-li-growing-and-training-alone) makes the Chinese fed feel losing their face, which seems more important to them than getting two spots for the Olympics next year and they use it as a punishment to her.

Please, let's wait to know the reason of Zijun's withdrawal before spreading speculations to be perceived as truth, as randomfan seems to do already. As far as I can tell, the Chinese fed is much more rational and pragmatic than many dramatic fans.

 

[randomfan]

Please, let's wait to know the reason of Zijun's withdrawal before spreading speculations to be perceived as truth, as randomfan seems to do already. As far as I can tell, the Chinese fed is much more rational and pragmatic than many dramatic fans.

This comment below came up on Zijun's fan fest:

Nope...Zijun is not injured...I'll just briefly translate her weibo post two days ago (which she has deleted now):

"what is even more cruel than reality is conspiracy."


there's a huge chaos among Chinese fans right now...

I know this is not all the evidence needed, but it's still a hint to what happened...

 

[Violet Bliss]

领队回应李子君替补：名单未最后定 没有阴谋论 (Team leader responds re Li Zijun's substitute status: the list is not final, there is no conspiracy.)

3月22日凌晨，国际滑联官网公布的世锦赛女子单人滑名单中，李子君是替补选手，引发很大争议。领队唐燕红在接受媒体采访的时候否认了阴谋论，同时强调名单还没有最后确认。

　　中国在女子单人滑项目的名单上此前有过两次变动，最初是派出了李子君和赵子荃出战，替补为李香凝。3月10日，名单变为了李子君和李香凝为正选，赵子荃为替补。到了22日凌晨，国际滑联的最新名单中，李子君变成了替补。

　　对于李子君的近况，唐燕红介绍说是李子君近期身体状况不佳，一直在发烧，也没有进行正常训练。唐燕红透露，出发前会给出最终的名单。

唐燕红说自己没有关注李子君的微博，但否认了所谓的阴谋论，指出世锦赛一定会派出最好的运动员参赛，“国家荣誉，那是她自己的想法”。

March 22 morning, the ISU World Championships Ladies entries list has Li Zijun as a substitute entry, causing much debate. Team Leader Tang Yanhong denied the conspiracy theory during media interviews, emphasizing the the list is not final.

There have been two changes on the Chinese Ladies list. First it was Li Zijun and Zhao Ziquan with Li Xiangning as substitute. On March 10, it was changed into Li Zijun and Li Xiangning with Zhao Ziquan as substitute.

Regarding Li Zijun's current situation, Tang Yanhong said Li Zijun is not in good health lately with constant fever and she is not doing normal training. Tang Yanhong indicated that the final list will be published before departure for the World Championships.

Tang Yanhong said she didn't pay attention to Li Zijun's Weibo, but denied the so called conspiracy, pointing out World Championships have to be represented by the best athletes, "national honour, that's her own thinking."

 

[Violet Bliss]

Han YAN's entry is really in doubt as he has revealed on Weibo that his shoulder is likely broken thus causing more dislocations. The pain is intolerable even as he trains like gambling. He feels it's time to rest though he's tried his best.

I translated and posted the report on Han's fan thread.

 

[YesWay]

Han YAN's entry is really in doubt as he has revealed on Weibo that his shoulder is likely broken thus causing more dislocations. The pain is intolerable even as he trains like gambling. He feels it's time to rest though he's tried his best.

I translated and posted the report on Han's fan thread.

Oh no, not Han Yan as well...?! :-/

 

[karne]

I am talking about the fact that karne and some other USA posters talked long and large about the 3 spots for the USA. Many of them see it as a 3rd chance for a medal... .

You are overcomplicating things. My desire for the third spot has nothing to do with medals. Rather, since I am a fan of US men other than the USFS's shiny new toys, and would rather they not be left on the trash heap as so many want to do, I view the third spot as vital to seeing at least one of my men on that Olympic team. At this point, it's just about making the goddamn team.

 

[el henry]

As someone who has posted "long and large" about the importance of a third spot for the USA men, not once have I ever ever ever talked about the third spot as a chance to medal. How do you get that from actually *reading* our posts? Really????

In fact, I will repeat although I think by now it should be way boring even to myself, I want three spots so I can see more US men, because I like their skating. As do some other posters. Indeed, the men I want to see, as I have been told numerous times in many diffferent ways, have no hope of medaling due to their many and varied shortcomings.

And I don't give a flying flip. I want to see them skate.:luv17:

 

[4everchan]

As someone who has posted "long and large" about the importance of a third spot for the USA men, not once have I ever ever ever talked about the third spot as a chance to medal. How do you get that from actually *reading* our posts? Really????

In fact, I will repeat although I think by now it should be way boring even to myself, I want three spots so I can see more US men, because I like their skating. As do some other posters. Indeed, the men I want to see, as I have been told numerous times in many diffferent ways, have no hope of medaling due to their many and varied shortcomings.

And I don't give a flying flip. I want to see them skate.:luv17:

1) i was not talking about you... i know where you are when it comes to your preference

2) you can see them skate but don't you think it's quite self-centered to want them to skate at worlds, just because you enjoy them and their varied shortcomings?

I would like very much to see a bunch of Canadian skaters at world too... but i am not going to complain that they are not there because Canada has less spots... i get to see them at other competitions and so do you with your favourite american skaters...

the world championship is a competition... not stars on ice.

Gosh....