2018-19 Canadian figure skating

[4everchan]

and on top of that... these groups are large... very large.. like 20-30 skaters... it's not like anyone can thing : oh i am so much above the pack.... they probably don't even all know everyone competing...

 

[Tanager]

Speaking of summer competitions of a potentially stressful nature...

Who's planning on watching the Minto Summer Skate? (And thank you Mango for creating the thread where we can discuss during the competition!)
I'm able to stream Saturday morning and Saturday evening/night. My plan is to watch the Junior Men's Free, Junior Women's Short (Group 1) and the Senior Men's Free (though disappointed that the Senior Men's Free conflicts with the Junior Pairs Short). Looking forward to the first 2018/2019 competitive glimpse at some of our most promising skaters!

 

[SnowWhite]

I planning to go watch some of it live.

 

[StephenGfan]

Stephen gogolevs programs for the upcoming season are:
SP: Run Boy Run by Yoann Lemoine performed by Woodkid
FS: Sherlock Holmes (soundtrack) by Hans Zimmer

we will see these soon

 

[Ziotic]

Me too! Jr and Sr men short programs!

 

[Haleth]

I will try especially on Saturday. My parents kept changing which day they are overnighting with us (Thursday, nope! Friday! nope Thursday! OK it's Friday for sure now lol) so I am not sure how much I'll see Friday afternoon/evening. Hoping a kind person will put at least a few vids up.

 

[chuckm]

RESULTS NACS NOVICE ICE DANCE LAKE PLACID

Overall Placement, Total Score, Starlight Waltz, Argentine Tango, FD, Team, Country

1 - 114.82 1 1 2 Jordan LIN / Morgan SLETTEN USA
2 - 113.44 2 2 1 Isabel McQUILKIN / Jacob PORTZ CAN
3 - 99.86 4 5 3 Mia SAUNDERS / William ODDSON CAN
4 - 99.40 3 3 5 Aya HAMMOND / Michael BARSOUM CAN
5 - 95.64 6 8 4 Eliana PEAL / Ethan PEAL USA
6 - 92.35 8 4 6 Juliette SHADID / Lucas SHADID CAN
7 - 86.80 7 6 7 Kiera KAM / Mathew CARTER CAN
8 - 82.76 5 7 8 Maria BROWN / Marius DRISCOLL USA
9 - 75.81 9 10 9 Kelsey SCHAUB / Anthony HADDAD USA
10 - 69.51 10 9 10 Sabrina FOTI / Christian BENNETT USA


RESULTS LAKE PLACID INTERNATIONAL JUNIOR RHYTHM DANCE (ARGENTINE TANGO)

1 - 54.72 Emma GUNTER / Caleb WEIN USA
2 - 50.94 Miku MAKITA / Tyler GUNARA CAN
3 - 50.54 Irina GALIYANOVA / Grayson LOCHHEAD CAN
4 - 49.91 Isabella AMOIA / Luca BECKER USA
5 - 48.73 Alina EFIMOVA / Alexander PETROV USA
6 - 44.65 Sasha FEAR / George WADDELL GBR
7 - 43.64 Nadiia BASHYNSKA / Peter BEAUMONT CAN
8 - 41.40 Matilda FRIEND / William BADAOUI AUS
9 - 37.70 Shaelene KATRAYAN / Jordan DEROCHIE CAN

RESULTS LAKE PLACID JUNIOR RHYTHM DANCE (ARGENTINE TANGO)

1 - 61.22 Eliana GROPMAN / Ian SOMERVILLE USA
2 - 56.55 Oona BROWN / Gage BROWN USA
3 - 55.68 Molly CESANEK / Yegor YEGOROV USA
4 - 55.47 Jocelyn HAINES / James KOSZUTA USA
5 - 53.80 Yuka ORIHARA / Lee ROYER CAN
6 - 50.81 Katarina DELCAMP / Maxwell GART USA
7 - 46.39 Allie ROSE / JT MICHEL USA
8 - 42.56 Emily BRATTI / Nicolay USANOV USA
9 - 41.73 Claire PURNELL / Luke PURNELL USA
10 - 38.49 Bailey MELTON / Ryan O'DONNELL USA

RESULTS LAKE PLACID INTERNATIONAL SENIOR RHYTHM DANCE (ROMANTIC TANGO)

1 - 73.50 Lorraine McNAMARA / Quinn CARPENTER USA
2 - 68.17 Rachel PARSONS / Michael PARSONS USA
3 - 56.23 Haley SALES / Nicolas WAMSTEEKER CAN
4 - 52.59 Molly LANAGHAN / Dmitre RAZGULAJEVS CAN
5 - 42.04 Emily MONAGHAN / Iias FOURATI HUN
6 - 41.43 Shira ICHILOV / Vadim DAVIDOVICH ISR
7 - 38.41 Elicia REYNOLDS / Stephen REYNOLDS USA
8 - 33.61 Nicole TAKAHASHI / Oleg ALTUKHOV USA

 

[Tanager]

SnowWhite and Ziotic, I hope you will share some of your impressions from the rink (and same to all who are lucky enough to be live at Minto!)

 

[ttwist]

I am wondering why the "regular" juniors have better scores than the international juniors. I expected it to be the other way around, can someone explain to me how this comp works?

 

[TGee]

I am wondering why the "regular" juniors have better scores than the international juniors. I expected it to be the other way around, can someone explain to me how this comp works?

Perhaps someone more familiar with the event could help out...

Sometimes there are bonus points awarded for certain elements in domestic events to encourage novice and junior skaters to increase BV.

The international events would follow IJS tightly, and would have qualified international judges...

 

[Scout]

I can't say that I ever noticed a lack of competitive stress at these events.

They aren't just going for a medal, but for the placement towards the overall ranking in the summer series.

They also need to demonstrate the required elements for the NextGen status and Total Score towards earning or retaining NextGen status.

And they know that monitoring by the talent management team is happening at those events.

When I used to compete, there also wasn't a lack of stress in pre-preliminary competitions. A skater will always want to skate their best. And yes, there is still a lot at stake. But I do think it's a different mentality when you skate against a stronger field than a weak field. Kind of like speed skating heats, where you might clock in a better prelim time if you are skating next to a faster skater.

Or how Patrick Chan may feel at Canadians vs Worlds. I would think that he absolutely feels pressure and wants to deliver a great skate at Canadians; for the Canadian crowd, for himself, to build confidence going into Worlds/Olympics, etc. But while a gold medal is not guaranteed, it is his to lose and would take a pretty bad skate for that to happen. I would think the mentality is different than at Worlds or Olympics, where competition is a lot stiffer and its more of a fight for Patrick. (And while a lot of skaters find Nationals way worse than Worlds in terms of stress, because that determines your international assignments for the upcoming year, but I`m talking about situations where there are one or two skaters who are in a class of their own in a competition.)

and on top of that... these groups are large... very large.. like 20-30 skaters... it's not like anyone can thing : oh i am so much above the pack.... they probably don't even all know everyone competing...

I don`t think it`s implausible that Aurora Cotop, 5th at senior nationals, thinks that she`s above the pack. She IS above the pack; she`s the 5th ranked senior female skater in Canada. To be clear - I don`t think Aurora actually goes about thinking ``i am so much above the pack``. She seems very sweet, very respectful. But realistically, I don`t think most of the unknown junior Canadian girls are threats to her. Most of them won`t have her PCS, most of them will pop jumps and fall. She won`t have to directly face a lot of the bigger threats (Alison Schumaker, Amelia Orzel,...). Same thing with Alison or Amelia. If I were betting on medal winners, I`d pick Alison and Amelia in their group, and not an unknown, because I do think they are above their pack.

I think if you've won a medal at the junior level at the Canadian championships and been to a jgp, it's different to look at the other 29 skaters in the group and go "hmmm...I don't know most of them", which would imply those unknown skaters haven't gone to a jgp or placed high at a previous Canadians, versus seeing 5 or 6 other skaters in the group that have already had notable accomplishments, such as international competition or medals at Nationals. Obviously, there may be a skater or two that's unknown, but has a break through skate. But in the entry list, there were only about 2 notable competitors per group, not a whole bunch.

 

[4everchan]

Scout :

i have done competitions in two kinds of events... music and swimming...

yes, some competitions are bigger than others but whatever the size and competence of the field, one still has to deliver their own bag of tricks... for instance, Aurora has had all sorts of issues rotating her 3-3 and landing her 3lz in last year's jgp series.. she may be well above the pack but her goal would be to manage her own jumping elements...no matter who else is there...
i would compare this aspect of figure skating : succeeding your own program to music...

one aspect of figure skating i would compare to true sport like swimming would be bettering yourself... when I swam, I would see the "entry times" of my competitors... and the way it was organized is that in the last couple waves, all the best swimmers were bunched up together to compete against themselves... those were for smaller competitions where there is no prelims+ finals... just ONE race... so sometimes, your biggest opponent may be next to you in the pool, but other times, he may be in the previous wave.... in the end, what mattered was not where you ended in the race in your wave... as you could easily be first in your wave but be 7 in total if the other wave of swimmers have raced faster than you... .so all I would focus on in such circumstances was managing my own rhythm, managing my own stamina and endurance... i was a butterfly swimmer for the most part so I needed to make sure that I would keep some energy to not "break down" in the last 15 meters of a race.. etc... so it is again about self management as it is impossible to have all the best swimmers in one wave...

of course in bigger events, there will be ranking races, and then a semi-finals.. and finals... there, in the finals.. you can be after both, your best time and best racing, and a podium spot...

BUT in the end, my point is that swimmers, and many other athletes are confronted with that reality of not being in the same race or same group all the time... there is just no way you could have such big pools or tracks etc... so everyone is used, from a younger age to learn to compete within his own capacities rather than focusing on other people... and that pressure, the one that comes from within, is the one that needs to be managed at all times.


it is true that some athletes do better without pressure... but that sense of no pressure is often artificial and irrelevant because, no matter the field, if Patrick or Alaine doesn't deliver at Nationals, they won't even get to the next stage.... there is still minimum that is needed which is beyond "the very easy walk in the park"

 

[TGee]

When I used to compete, there also wasn't a lack of stress in pre-preliminary competitions. A skater will always want to skate their best. And yes, there is still a lot at stake. But I do think it's a different mentality when you skate against a stronger field than a weak field. Kind of like speed skating heats, where you might clock in a better prelim time if you are skating next to a faster skater.

Or how Patrick Chan may feel at Canadians vs Worlds. I would think that he absolutely feels pressure and wants to deliver a great skate at Canadians; for the Canadian crowd, for himself, to build confidence going into Worlds/Olympics, etc. But while a gold medal is not guaranteed, it is his to lose and would take a pretty bad skate for that to happen. I would think the mentality is different than at Worlds or Olympics, where competition is a lot stiffer and its more of a fight for Patrick. (And while a lot of skaters find Nationals way worse than Worlds in terms of stress, because that determines your international assignments for the upcoming year, but I`m talking about situations where there are one or two skaters who are in a class of their own in a competition.)



I don`t think it`s implausible that Aurora Cotop, 5th at senior nationals, thinks that she`s above the pack. She IS above the pack; she`s the 5th ranked senior female skater in Canada. To be clear - I don`t think Aurora actually goes about thinking ``i am so much above the pack``. She seems very sweet, very respectful. But realistically, I don`t think most of the unknown junior Canadian girls are threats to her. Most of them won`t have her PCS, most of them will pop jumps and fall. She won`t have to directly face a lot of the bigger threats (Alison Schumaker, Amelia Orzel,...). Same thing with Alison or Amelia. If I were betting on medal winners, I`d pick Alison and Amelia in their group, and not an unknown, because I do think they are above their pack.

I think if you've won a medal at the junior level at the Canadian championships and been to a jgp, it's different to look at the other 29 skaters in the group and go "hmmm...I don't know most of them", which would imply those unknown skaters haven't gone to a jgp or placed high at a previous Canadians, versus seeing 5 or 6 other skaters in the group that have already had notable accomplishments, such as international competition or medals at Nationals. Obviously, there may be a skater or two that's unknown, but has a break through skate. But in the entry list, there were only about 2 notable competitors per group, not a whole bunch.

Uhm, the thing is the national summer series Junior events don't usually have multiple flights. That's happening for the pre-novice and novice skaters. And with everyone developing at different paces, I don't think anyone feels superconfident.

And your right Aurora Coltop knows she's special... I believe she has a bye to Challenge if she wishes to exercise it.

So, skaters like her are coming to the summer events to debut their programs and get early judging feedback.

 

[Scout]

4everchan: I agree with a lot of what you`re saying. In any sport, all you can do is your best and all you have control over is your own performance; not those of your competitor. And yes, you have to deliver your own content. But I`m talking about one aspect of developing skaters; giving them the opportunity to compete in stronger flights, to make them better competitors in the future.

In terms of skater`s development and ability to succeed at the highest level, I think it`s good at the lower levels that the top competitors have the opportunity to compete against each other. It`s kind of like how, when Shae Lynn was coaching Kaitlyn and Andrew, she recommended that they move to Camerlengo and Krylova because she thought they would benefit from a more competitive atmosphere. Same idea here. There are so many pre-novice, novice and junior ladies. Flights are so big, as you pointed out, that they will be diluted, in the sense that the top women will be spread out over all the flights. I`ve always liked the idea of having a `finals` flight so that the top women from each flight can compete head to head and really push each other to become better; both better skaters (in terms of ability) and better competitors (mentally).

Ìf you were swimming in a wave...would you likely end up with a better time if the 7 other (?) people in the wave were the weakest 7 other people in the entire competition, or if they had roughly the same goal time as you? Aurora/Allison/Amelia competing against a weak junior won`t push them. Similarly, if you put them up against Gabby Daleman, they`ll think that they won`t stand a chance against her. But put them up against each other, and you`ve got a great fight.

 

[4everchan]

^^ off topic but the best times i have had was when the pool was empty LOL no water motion going against me... so there... and this condition is easier met with weaker competitors... because you are detached from the field.

 

[Scout]

^^ off topic but the best times i have had was when the pool was empty LOL no water motion going against me... so there... and this condition is easier met with weaker competitors... because you are detached from the field.

LOL. Fair enough. Personally, whether I`m skating, running or working out at the gym, I find I improve more when I`m training with people slightly better than I am, who can push me. So to each his own, I guess.

 

[chuckm]

Why do you think the Russian and Japanese women are so dominant internationally? Because the tops in the field compete against each other day in and day out, that's why. They know what skills they need to stay ahead of the crowd, get those valuable assignments and bring home medals.

 

[chuckm]

RESULTS LAKE PLACID INTERNATIONAL JUNIORS FREE DANCE and FINAL

FREE DANCE

1 - 78.70 Miku MAKITA / Tyler GUNARA CAN
2 - 78.29 Nadiia BASHYNSKA / Peter BEAUMONT CAN
3 - 76.63 Emma GUNTER / Caleb WEIN USA
4 - 74.58 Irina GALIYANOVA / Grayson LOCHHEAD CAN
5 - 72.48 Isabella AMOIA / Luca BECKER USA
6 - 71.60 Sasha FEAR / George WADDELL GBR
7 - 69.06 Alina EFIMOVA / Alexander PETROV USA
8- 67.98 Shaelene KATRAYAN / Jordan DEROCHIE CAN
9 - 63.21 Matilda FRIEND / William BADAOUI AUS

FINAL

1 - 131.35 1 3 Emma GUNTER / Caleb WEIN
2 - 129.64 2 1 Miku MAKITA / Tyler GUNARA
3 - 125.12 3 4 Irina GALIYANOVA / Grayson LOCHHEAD
4 - 122.39 4 5 Isabella AMOIA / Luca BECKER
5 - 121.93 7 2 Nadiia BASHYNSKA / Peter BEAUMONT
6 - 117.79 5 7 Alina EFIMOVA / Alexander PETROV
7 - 116.25 6 6 Sasha FEAR / George WADDELL
8 - 105.68 9 8 Shaelene KATRAYAN / Jordan DEROCHIE
9 - 104.61 8 9 Matilda FRIEND / William BADAOUI

 

[Ziotic]

I’m inclined to agree that completion makes you better.

When I used to run track my best times were always when I was chasing someone and not the person in the lead.

 

[Osmond4gold]

Why do you think the Russian and Japanese women are so dominant internationally? Because the tops in the field compete against each other day in and day out, that's why. They know what skills they need to stay ahead of the crowd, get those valuable assignments and bring home medals.

Gosh, didn't Canadian women win 50% of the podium placements the past 2 Worlds. Had Gabby been healthier in Milan it may have been more. We must be doing something right in senior ladies in terms of coaching, training, and comps, as 3 out of 6, ain't half bad.