2018-19 Ladies' power ranking

[chopinskate]

Agree. There is no doubt that if both cleans, Rika will win. She can even maybe afford a fall (not sure because we didn't see a clean free from Zagitova in GPs. But if we add the points she lost she's on an average of 155 i think).

She just popped a +3T, and got high GOE mostly, apart from that. I don't think she will get higher GOE than Rika if they skate in the same competition, and especially in Japan. I would say Zagi gets 155 if clean, too, with the +3T, the extra GOE for that combo, and a couple points more in PCS.

Like theharleyquinn I wish we'd seen a clean long program from Rika just to see what PCS the judges would have thrown at it. Already it was not even a full point behind, and she almost fell. I think the 160 is coming for her if she's clean, and hits all levels.

 

[yume]

It's one thing to skate knowing you have a PCS cushion. It's another thing to know your PCS is neck and neck with your competitor and you must be clean at all costs, and that hasn't happened a lot at the top of senior ladies in the past few years.

+1. It puts extra pressure on shoulders. And you can't laugh when you fall.

 

[yume]

She just popped a +3T, and got high GOE mostly, apart from that. I don't think she will get higher GOE than Rika if they skate in the same competition, and especially in Japan. I would say Zagi gets 155 if clean, too, with the +3T, the extra GOE for that combo, and a couple points more in PCS.

Like theharleyquinn I wish we'd seen a clean long program from Rika just to see what PCS the judges would have thrown at it. Already it was not even a full point behind, and she almost fell. I think the 160 is coming for her if she's clean, and hits all levels.

Yeah i think we will see something close to 160+ for Rika. Her pcs can even be close to 75 at worlds.
That's why i said she can afford a fall. Because even if Zagitova scores 158 in the free (and i think she can), i think at worlds her pcs and goe can be so big that she can score around 155+ with a fall + the gap in sp can save her.

 

[artsciboy]

I was going to say Kaori could even beat Tukt in the LP because she fell and had a flutz but was only a little behind (and was ahead on PCS), but she escaped the flutz call... There should be a larger gap between her PCS and Tukt's, but yeah, looks like Tukt will trump Kaori when both clean.

I think if Kaori keeps skating like she does, her PCS should rise to the point that a clean Tuktamysheva won’t be able to overcome it. Kaori’s programs are really what this new judging system is all about and Tuk’s PCS with a near 8 triple program is telling. I am heartened by just how close Kaori was to beating Tuk even with her own error.

Also, its great that Tuk and Rika have a 3axel and all, but why are we talking about Alina as if she is some technical queen? She is doing the same set of 7 triple jumps and two 2axels that the majority of the other girls are doing. Competition by competition, her Olympic Gold medal boost to her scores should and will fade - the minute they stop showering her with ridiculous GOEs and PCS, to me at least, she should fall to the second half of the power ranking...

 

[yume]

Also, its great that Tuk and Rika have a 3axel and all, but why are we talking about Alina as if she is some technical queen? She is doing the same set of 7 triple jumps and two 2axels that the majority of the other girls are doing. Competition by competition, her Olympic Gold medal boost to her scores should and will fade - the minute they stop showering her with ridiculous GOEs and PCS, to me at least, she should fall to the second half of the power ranking...

The skaters who scored the most in the two last quads are Medvedeva (160) and Yuna Kim (150).
Medvedeva free program had 7 triples. Combos were 3F-3T/3S-3T/2A-2T-2T. Repeated jumps were 3F and 3T.
Yuna Kim 's free program had 6 triples. Combos were 3lz-3T/2A-3T/2A-2T-2lo. Repeated jumps were 3lz and 3T.

Zagitova's free program has 7 triples. Combos are 3lz-3T/3lz-3lo/3F-2T-2lo. Repeated junps 3lz and 3F.

By your logic, then Medvedeva and Yuna Kim were overcored too. And since Zagitova is doing an harder program than them, they were more overscored than her then. So they shouldn't have been in contention for any medal...

 

[Joekaz]

Awkward? Sakamoto? She's one of the most graceful skaters I've ever seen...

Lol. Her lower body movement is great. Upper body is like a junior. Very stiff and arms all over the place. Doesn't seem to feel the music much and doesn't vary the tempo at all. But she has great edge work and speed. And jumps are very good and consistent. I think you let your emotions cloud your judgement. Right now she is very good but not really the whole package. No skater is perfect.

 

[chopinskate]

I think if Kaori keeps skating like she does, her PCS should rise to the point that a clean Tuktamysheva won’t be able to overcome it. Kaori’s programs are really what this new judging system is all about and Tuk’s PCS with a near 8 triple program is telling. I am heartened by just how close Kaori was to beating Tuk even with her own error.

But Tukt had a big mistake in the SP as well as a small error LP, whereas Kaori only had one big mistake in the LP (and an uncalled flutz). I do think Kaori should get more PCS in both programs, but I am not sure it will rise enough. And Tukt's won't fall. Plus, Tukt can up her tech content further with a 3A, 3Lz+3T, 3F SP. Unless Kaori breaks out a 3A of her own, not sure there's much she can do this season, but of course I do think she's number 4 currently and can slide onto the podium easily.

Also, its great that Tuk and Rika have a 3axel and all, but why are we talking about Alina as if she is some technical queen? She is doing the same set of 7 triple jumps and two 2axels that the majority of the other girls are doing. Competition by competition, her Olympic Gold medal boost to her scores should and will fade - the minute they stop showering her with ridiculous GOEs and PCS, to me at least, she should fall to the second half of the power ranking...

I agree she isn't bringing anything particularly special this season. Her +3lo combo puts her ahead of most 7-triple women because she can then do two triple lutzes and flips.

 

[chopinskate]

Lol. Her lower body movement is great. Upper body is like a junior. Very stiff and arms all over the place. Doesn't seem to feel the music much and doesn't vary the tempo at all. But she has great edge work and speed. And jumps are very good and consistent. I think you let your emotions cloud your judgement. Right now she is very good but not really the whole package. No skater is perfect.

Or perhaps you do? No one except you takes these comments as "Kaori is perfect", literally someone else said right after that she isn't refined too much. All people take issue with is your saying she is graceless and then spinning it into a spiel of how she's like Slutskaya, and how it somehow means Slutskaya would have beaten Kwan. She is musical despite what you want to say anyway. Her edge work and flow is very graceful. She will eventually develop the upper body movement.

 

[Leonardo]

This is why two clean programs were most important for Rika at GPF. It could very well come down to a PCS fight between her and Alina by the time we hit Worlds. It's one thing to skate knowing you have a PCS cushion. It's another thing to know your PCS is neck and neck with your competitor and you must be clean at all costs, and that hasn't happened a lot at the top of senior ladies in the past few years.

Rika could afford a mistake because her pcs are neck and neck with Zagitova's and her TES could be much higher. Another important point: Alina's jumps are borderline this season, she could totally get ur calls if the TP is not in a good mood. She's far from the technicall beast that she was last season, not to mention slower skating and laboured overall in every competition she entered this season.

 

[tosca]

Oy vey - this thread is a lot.


I think that a clean Kaori could have overtaken Tuk. She had a few issues with levels in her SP and obviously had that fall in her FS.

SP:
- If she had gotten the same GOE for a Level 4 CCoSP instead of 3 she would have gotten 3.85pts instead of 3.34 (+.5pts)
- If she had gotten the same GOE for a level for her StSq instead of a 3 she would have gotten 4.68pts instead of 3.96 (+.72pts)

Her original SP was 70.23 but hypothetically if she had gotten her levels and had the same gOE she would have scored 71.45pts (+1.22pts)

FS:
- In the FS her only mistake was the combo as she had gotten all her levels. In both her GP's she was given an 11.18 and a 11.09 for the combo. She scored a 7.88 for the combo at the GPF. Had she even done gotten the same GOE as her lower score for the combo, it would have been an additional +3.21pts alone fore the combo.

Hypothetically, if she had skate clean and receive the same GOE for the combo as Skate America, her score would have been 145.66 instead of 141.45. These scores would have beaten Tuk in both the SP and FS.

Obviously, this is all hypothetical and one could argue that if Tuk had been clean on her 3A attempt in the FS she would have overtaken a clean Kaori (she lost 1.14pts in GOE) which also could be true. It would be a tight if both were clean though.

I also agree that Kaori has an uphill challenge to go against Rika and Alina with her current tech and PCS (although slowly but surely climbing) but she definitely is in the conversation for #3.

 

[Ziotic]

But Tukt had a big mistake in the SP as well as a small error LP, whereas Kaori only had one big mistake in the LP (and an uncalled flutz). I do think Kaori should get more PCS in both programs, but I am not sure it will rise enough. And Tukt's won't fall. Plus, Tukt can up her tech content further with a 3A, 3Lz+3T, 3F SP. Unless Kaori breaks out a 3A of her own, not sure there's much she can do this season, but of course I do think she's number 4 currently and can slide onto the podium easily.


I agree she isn't bringing anything particularly special this season. Her +3lo combo puts her ahead of most 7-triple women because she can then do two triple lutzes and flips.

Other can do 2Lz and 2F also, you just loose a 2T or 2L

3lz-3T
3Lz
3F-eu-3S
2A
2A-2t
3L
3F

 

[chopinskate]

3lz-3T
3Lz
3F-eu-3S
2A
2A-2t
3L
3F

But the BV

(That's probably what I should have said, sorry!)

 

[theharleyquinn]

Rika could afford a mistake because her pcs are neck and neck with Zagitova's and her TES could be much higher. Another important point: Alina's jumps are borderline this season, she could totally get ur calls if the TP is not in a good mood. She's far from the technicall beast that she was last season, not to mention slower skating and laboured overall in every competition she entered this season.

We didn't know her PCS was neck and neck until after the competition though. And again, Rika knows it's not definitive until we see her against Alina clean.

 

[artsciboy]

The skaters who scored the most in the two last quads are Medvedeva (160) and Yuna Kim (150).
Medvedeva free program had 7 triples. Combos were 3F-3T/3S-3T/2A-2T-2T. Repeated jumps were 3F and 3T.
Yuna Kim 's free program had 6 triples. Combos were 3lz-3T/2A-3T/2A-2T-2lo. Repeated jumps were 3lz and 3T.

Zagitova's free program has 7 triples. Combos are 3lz-3T/3lz-3lo/3F-2T-2lo. Repeated junps 3lz and 3F.

By your logic, then Medvedeva and Yuna Kim were overcored too. And since Zagitova is doing an harder program than them, they were more overscored than her then. So they shouldn't have been in contention for any medal...

I won’t go into whether I think Medvedeva and Kim were overscored, but my point about Zagitova was that with her scraggly, awkward technical elements (i.e., jumps) and mediocre skating skills, her GOEs and PCS should not be as astronomical as they are. If we were evaluating her strictly on her skating and what she delivered on the ice, her PCS and GOEs should be comparable to those of Sofia S.

 

[Joekaz]

Or perhaps you do? No one except you takes these comments as "Kaori is perfect", literally someone else said right after that she isn't refined too much. All people take issue with is your saying she is graceless and then spinning it into a spiel of how she's like Slutskaya, and how it somehow means Slutskaya would have beaten Kwan. She is musical despite what you want to say anyway. Her edge work and flow is very graceful. She will eventually develop the upper body movement.

Is being like Slutskaya an insult? She was world champion. Lol

 

[chopinskate]

Is being like Slutskaya an insult? She was world champion. Lol

You: Kaori is graceless like Slutskaya
Also you: Is being like Slutskaya an insult?

Keep trying.

 

[Joekaz]

You: Kaori is graceless like Slutskaya
Also you: Is being like Slutskaya an insult?

Keep trying.

I didn't say graceless. I said awkward. I also complimented her many good qualities. Slutskaya was awkward too. And also very strong technically. And 2 time world champion. I think Sakamoto would happily take those results. A little honesty is not a bad thing, even in Skating where people are busy hugging their stuffed animals they want to throw to their idols. Lol

 

[Leonardo]

Yeah i think we will see something close to 160+ for Rika. Her pcs can even be close to 75 at worlds.
That's why i said she can afford a fall. Because even if Zagitova scores 158 in the free (and i think she can), i think at worlds her pcs and goe can be so big that she can score around 155+ with a fall + the gap in sp can save her.

Agreed. In this competition Rika won with a 6 point margin with a fall, BUT with a downgraded 3A and a level 2 spin. That's quite a significant advantage.
Overall, I feel that at this point Rika is simply skating better than Alina in almost every aspect, except for transitions. Alina is lucky that her pcs are still sky high even for laboured performances and her jumps are not getting called. She's uring a lot of jumps, not to mention that suspicious lutz edge.
ps. Alina is a fierce competitor, and I'm happy she's still skating well enough to make a real competition happen.

 

[yume]

I won’t go into whether I think Medvedeva and Kim were overscored, but my point about Zagitova was that with her scraggly, awkward technical elements (i.e., jumps) and mediocre skating skills, her GOEs and PCS should not be as astronomical as they are. If we were evaluating her strictly on her skating and what she delivered on the ice, her PCS and GOEs should be comparable to those of Sofia S.

Well, i was saying that in response to your logic.
IMHO, Zagitova's GOEs were fine. Compared to what Kihira got for jumps which were not higher and didn't have better landings in the free.
Though she's overscored in PCS, if her SS are mediocre, i wonder what Tuktamysheva's are.
It will surely hurt more when she will medals and win again...

 

[BillNeal]

I didn't say graceless. I said awkward. I also complimented her many good qualities. Slutskaya was awkward too. And also very strong technically. And 2 time world champion. I think Sakamoto would happily take those results. A little honesty is not a bad thing, even in Skating where people are busy hugging their stuffed animals they want to throw to their idols. Lol

While I don't agree with you RE:Kaori, I wish more people would actually read what others are writing in the context of the conversation. It's getting old how there are so many misinterpretations and misquotes.