2018-19 Ladies' power ranking

[yume]

Agreed. In this competition Rika won with a 6 point margin with a fall, BUT with a downgraded 3A and a level 2 spin. That's quite a significant advantage.
Overall, I feel that at this point Rika is simply skating better than Alina in almost every aspect, except for transitions. Alina is lucky that her pcs are still sky high even for laboured performances and her jumps are not getting called. She's uring a lot of jumps, not to mention that suspicious lutz edge.
ps. Alina is a fierce competitor, and I'm happy she's still skating well enough to make a real competition happen.

IMHO, this is not sky high pcs. Sky high pcs is getting 76 with a fall or 75 with many falls, pops, turns.
It stills high, but her pcs are slowly decreasing. And now rookie Rika is also getting "sky high" PCS.

 

[chopinskate]

I wish more people would actually read what others are writing in the context of the conversation. It's getting old how there are so many misinterpretations and misquotes.

I agree. Including their own posts in the entire thread. Would be great to have the entire context. I do believe everyone should read yours so that more and more people interpret you correctly, though. Your posts here have been especially hilarious, and informative about what you think, and people are missing out.

 

[chopinskate]

I didn't say graceless. I said awkward. I also complimented her many good qualities. Slutskaya was awkward too. And also very strong technically. And 2 time world champion. I think Sakamoto would happily take those results. A little honesty is not a bad thing, even in Skating where people are busy hugging their stuffed animals they want to throw to their idols. Lol

You first went after her in the japanese ladies thread and called her graceless, and said it's why she can't receive high PCS. Now here, after she received high PCS, it's because the system overvalues jumps, and probably Kwan would have lost to Slutskaya. You are free to carry on, and repeat your refrain of how fans are blind, and continue to be the one without an actual argument and resort to logically fallacious attacks.

 

[Joekaz]

You first went after her in the japanese ladies thread and called her graceless, and said it's why she can't receive high PCS. Now here, after she received high PCS, it's because the system overvalues jumps, and probably Kwan would have lost to Slutskaya. You are free to carry on, and repeat your refrain of how fans are blind, and continue to be the one without an actual argument and resort to logically fallacious attacks.

Did you ever think that we just have different opinions of her artistic ability? She is probably my second favorite skater because I like her power and speed. The fact that she gets higher pcs just proves my point that pcs isnt a substitute for the old presentation mark. And u completely dismiss all the positive things I say about her.

 

[Metis]

Did you ever think that we just have different opinions of her artistic ability? She is probably my second favorite skater because I like her power and speed. The fact that she gets higher pcs just proves my point that pcs isnt a substitute for the old presentation mark. And u completely dismiss all the positive things I say about her.

Well, yeah. Skating skills are a component mark, which is a technical assessment, not an artistic one. Transitions is also a technical mark. And Kaori obviously has phenomenal skating skills and doesn’t lack for transitions. Whether she should be above others on Performance, Composition, and Interpretation of the Music is somewhat more subjective, but it’s not as though Kaori has a badly choreographed programme (CO) or lacks in performance (PE).

 

[chopinskate]

Did you ever think that we just have different opinions of her artistic ability? She is probably my second favorite skater because I like her power and speed. The fact that she gets higher pcs just proves my point that pcs isnt a substitute for the old presentation mark. And u completely dismiss all the positive things I say about her.

Did you ever think that you might be coming across as saying nonsensical things, and have, perhaps unintentionally, been creating a weird narrative in each thread you've talked about Kaori? I'm not even the only person to have been arguing against you, and yet you've been dismissing ALL people who argue as simply being blind due to being "fans". Yes, you really came across as liking her, and were totally giving us a fair shake with our opinions for us to return the favor.

And I did consider your positive opinions literally I repeat them AND agree with the criticism in a past reply here. Hard to say I haven't when it is the the back-handed writing of your posts I've been arguing against in this thread, and the limited notions of artistry that you were making sound authoritative and final in the other. If you don't understand why people are reacting the way they do, perhaps you should take a good look at how you're writing your posts. It's the advice I gave Bill, too.

 

[Joekaz]

Did you ever think that you might be coming across as saying nonsensical things, and have, perhaps unintentionally, been creating a weird narrative in each thread you've talked about Kaori? I'm not even the only person to have been arguing against you, and yet you've been dismissing ALL people who argue as simply being blind due to being "fans". Yes, you really came across as liking her, and were totally giving us a fair shake with our opinions for us to return the favor.

And I did consider your positive opinions literally I repeat them AND agree with the criticism in a past reply here. Hard to say I haven't when it is the the back-handed writing of your posts I've been arguing against in this thread, and the limited notions of artistry that you were making sound authoritative and final in the other. If you don't understand why people are reacting the way they do, perhaps you should take a good look at how you're writing your posts. It's the advice I gave Bill, too.

I used Kaori to illustrate a point about pcs scoring. I also used Satoko and Marin in that same comment. Instead of addressing my point you fixate on my criticism of Kaori and ignore my praise of Satoko and Marin. You need to check your ego and realize that just because you don't agree doesn't make it nonsense. She's a professional athlete. I think she can handle criticism( as if she cares what people on here say. Lol)

 

[BillNeal]

You need to check your ego and realize that just because you don't agree doesn't make it nonsense.

Perfect advice :agree:

 

[jenm]

I don't understand why some say Rika had a fall. She had a downgrade and hands down, not fall. whuuttt.

 

[skatenewbie]

Oy vey - this thread is a lot.


I think that a clean Kaori could have overtaken Tuk. She had a few issues with levels in her SP and obviously had that fall in her FS.

SP:
- If she had gotten the same GOE for a Level 4 CCoSP instead of 3 she would have gotten 3.85pts instead of 3.34 (+.5pts)
- If she had gotten the same GOE for a level for her StSq instead of a 3 she would have gotten 4.68pts instead of 3.96 (+.72pts)

Her original SP was 70.23 but hypothetically if she had gotten her levels and had the same gOE she would have scored 71.45pts (+1.22pts)

FS:
- In the FS her only mistake was the combo as she had gotten all her levels. In both her GP's she was given an 11.18 and a 11.09 for the combo. She scored a 7.88 for the combo at the GPF. Had she even done gotten the same GOE as her lower score for the combo, it would have been an additional +3.21pts alone fore the combo.

Hypothetically, if she had skate clean and receive the same GOE for the combo as Skate America, her score would have been 145.66 instead of 141.45. These scores would have beaten Tuk in both the SP and FS.

Obviously, this is all hypothetical and one could argue that if Tuk had been clean on her 3A attempt in the FS she would have overtaken a clean Kaori (she lost 1.14pts in GOE) which also could be true. It would be a tight if both were clean though.

I also agree that Kaori has an uphill challenge to go against Rika and Alina with her current tech and PCS (although slowly but surely climbing) but she definitely is in the conversation for #3.

Tuk lost like 6 points from her SP PB because stepout and < on her 3A, also the 3A in FS she lost 1.14 pts but could be 2.5 point if she do clean 3A. That alone already giver her 8.5 point lost, also she got lvl 3 in her StSq so she lost 0.6 point, totalling 9 point. If Tuktamysheva went squeaky clean im both SP and FS im sure her PCS wont be 32/66, closer to 33/68 (she recieved almost 33, exactly 32.99 in NHK for her clean SP). That totalled more than 10 point higher if Tuktamysheva is clean. She can also upped her SP content with 3Lz-3T and 3F/3Lo as solo jump, that adding around 1 point in BV. Tuktamysheva scoring potential is 225+ , while for Kaori is more like 218-220, she has even yet score above 215...in international comp including last season

 

[zounger]

I don't understand why some say Rika had a fall. She had a downgrade and hands down, not fall. whuuttt.

Probably those people have in mind the fall definition rather than everyday meaning of the word fall. But this is something that is in judges discretion.

"A Fall is defined as loss of control by a Skater with the result that the majority of his/her own body weight is
on the ice supported by any other part of the body other than the blades e.g. hand(s), knee(s), buttock(s), or any
part of the arm (Rule 503, para 1)."

So if the judges in that case consider that the majority of Rika's weight on the ice is supported by her hands, they could have call it a fall.

 

[AlexRus]

Challenger Series and Grand Prix finished, and we may make some summaries about Senior Ladies.

By nations:
At first level are Russia and Japan.
At second - USA and Korea.
Of others may be mentioned Elizabet Tursynbaeva (Kazakstan) and two European girls - Loena Hendrickx (Belgia) and Viveca Lindfors (Finland).

Russia.
1. Alina Zagitova.
2. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva.
To No 3 pretend, as for me, Sofia Samodurova and Anna Tarusina - very young, very stable girls with nice skating. Tarusina as for me is a bit better than Samodurova.
Also may be mentioned Anastasia Gulyakova - very good but unstable.
Medvedeva - degraded much to previous season. Will she restore? Will see in future.
Konstantinova - too unstable, she never skated clean both SP and FS in the same competition. And sometimes may make many mistakes.
Gubanova - may be.
Sakhanovich - she did not qualify to Nationals.
Others - hardly pretend.

Japan.
1. Rika Kihira.
Others in no order - Kaori Sakamoto, Satoko Miyahara, Mai Mihara.
Others - hardly pretend.

USA.
1. Bradie Tennell.
2. Mariah Bell.
And I don't know who else - Ting Cui has too high Season Best by huge overscoring, all others are really worse than No 1 and 2.

Korea.
Best are Yelim Kim and Ensoo Lim - both are age eligible to Seniors and have technical score for Worlds.

Probably at Worlds will pretend to gold Alina Zagitova and Rika Kihira - with unpredictable result.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Probably those people have in mind the fall definition rather than everyday meaning of the word fall. But this is something that is in judges discretion.

"A Fall is defined as loss of control by a Skater with the result that the majority of his/her own body weight is
on the ice supported by any other part of the body other than the blades e.g. hand(s), knee(s), buttock(s), or any
part of the arm (Rule 503, para 1)."

So if the judges in that case consider that the majority of Rika's weight on the ice is supported by her hands, they could have call it a fall.

I would have judged it as a fall. When her legs are split, she is holding her weight on her hands and the insides of her skates (not the blades). The determination had no impact on the result, but the call could have reasonably gone either way.

 

[andromache]

Re: Evgenia - I am not very hopeful for her chances at Nationals. Rusfed would probably rather send her than two Mishin skaters, but Sofia has made a very convincing case for herself this season with how consistent she has been.

I think she has to compete and put her best performances out there. If she doesn't make the team, prepare herself as an alternate while continuing to work on her technique and skating.

I don't think she should work with David Wilson going forward. His choreography really gels with some skaters (Javi, Yuna) and is not so good with others. Orange-Colored Sky could've been great, but I don't understand how/why Evgenia performed it the way she did in France.

Evgenia should work with Sandra or Shae-Lynn next season. I don't think she's a lost cause and I still think the move to BOrser can work out long term. It's just going to take time. I do think she would be struggling this season regardless of the move. I rewatched her Olympics programs this past weekend, and her jumps were just so labored with very "thud"-like landings.

Unless she really comes out very improved at Nationals, I think she will not make the team this season.

 

[jenm]

Probably those people have in mind the fall definition rather than everyday meaning of the word fall. But this is something that is in judges discretion.

"A Fall is defined as loss of control by a Skater with the result that the majority of his/her own body weight is
on the ice supported by any other part of the body other than the blades e.g. hand(s), knee(s), buttock(s), or any
part of the arm (Rule 503, para 1)."

So if the judges in that case consider that the majority of Rika's weight on the ice is supported by her hands, they could have call it a fall.

Thank you for this.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Evgenia - I am not very hopeful for her chances at Nationals. Rusfed would probably rather send her than two Mishin skaters, but Sofia has made a very convincing case for herself this season with how consistent she has been.

I think she has to compete and put her best performances out there. If she doesn't make the team, prepare herself as an alternate while continuing to work on her technique and skating.

I don't think she should work with David Wilson going forward. His choreography really gels with some skaters (Javi, Yuna) and is not so good with others. Orange-Colored Sky could've been great, but I don't understand how/why Evgenia performed it the way she did in France.

Evgenia should work with Sandra or Shae-Lynn next season. I don't think she's a lost cause and I still think the move to BOrser can work out long term. It's just going to take time. I do think she would be struggling this season regardless of the move. I rewatched her Olympics programs this past weekend, and her jumps were just so labored with very "thud"-like landings.

Unless she really comes out very improved at Nationals, I think she will not make the team this season.

I think that although her programs do not fit her, choreo is the least of Zhenya's problems. So that I do not care who makes choreo for her. She just has to do jumps and spins like she did them before.

 

[andromache]

I think that although her programs do not fit her, choreo is the least of Zhenya's problems. So that I do not care who makes choreo for her. She just has to do jumps and spins like she did them before.

She will never jump like she did before. Her body has clearly changed since the 2018 Olympics. She has injuries. (While she isn't injured NOW, all skaters have chronic/recurring issues - the older they are, the more of these they accumulate or exacerbate.) That's why she needs to rework her technique, although I realize a lot of people here think that reworking one's technique after body changes is unnecessary or just a joke.

The spins I agree with you on 100%. She's never been an amazing spinner, but they looked good enough and she got the levels and decent GOE. Now she's losing precious points, and overall, it creates an impression of sloppiness that impacts the entire perception of the performance. The spins need to be more of a focus in training going forward (though it is very unfortunate that Evgenia, like a LOT of ladies' skaters, has back problems that make training spins unpleasant - I really think more ladies need to ditch the layback/Biellman, Evgenia included.)

 

[theharleyquinn]

We don't know the extent of her back injury, but her flexibility doesn't seem to be the same (and honestly, how could it?). I do worry about that with her since it's hard to be reworking spins and jumps.

And I actually think the choreography is a big problem. David Wilson has/had his muses and most of his other clients get more disjointed, impersonal work. It seems to me that they didn't want to give her too much to do this season while she's trying to focus on the jump content, but enough that the judges don't think she's not doing anything. I can understand the approach, but I think they overcorrected especially on the free. The programs have more potential than the choreography has given them. Sandra largely had her off to a good start with Orange Colored Sky but that has been lost over time as the pressure on the jumps increased.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

To what extent does the Russian Fed fund Evgenia's training abroad? If she's not getting results, I could see her being pressured to work with a Russian coach.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Re: Evgenia - I am not very hopeful for her chances at Nationals. Rusfed would probably rather send her than two Mishin skaters, but Sofia has made a very convincing case for herself this season with how consistent she has been.

I still think Evgenia will make the team, but it's incredible that 12 months ago she was viewed as unbeatable internationally and now we're questioning whether she can make it out of her nationals.