2018-19 Russian Ice Dance

[coldblueeyes]

Who's vouching for Stavitskaya? Though, I want to see what's going to happen with Alla and Pavel - Krylova kind of got herself half of the Russian ID teams for the season. It would be interesting if she manages to push them towards the top a la Montreal.

 

[RemyRose]

Who's vouching for Stavitskaya? Though, I want to see what's going to happen with Alla and Pavel - Krylova kind of got herself half of the Russian ID teams for the season. It would be interesting if she manages to push them towards the top a la Montreal.

Alla and Pavel are no longer skating together. Tatjana Flade asked Pavel and he confirmed the split, he is looking for a partner. Pavel pairing with Stavitskaya hasn't been confirmed.
Here's the post: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...29-spring-2018-and-beyond.103656/post-5377514

 

[coldblueeyes]

Jesus take the wheel.

 

[bramweld]

Jesus take the wheel.

Please let this just be a tryout, please. Lena, go find your form and put in an application. But if you would rather be outside the fishbowl, maybe Vasilisa could work?

 

[Marta25]

Sigh. And I had the hope that this new generation of young Russian ice dancers would be different.But there they go again.

 

[1critic]

Well there's still the Jrs who are coming up.

 

[elysium]

Sofia Polishchuk hasn’t any confirmed partner either, maybe she can also be a good candidate for Pavel.

 

[gmyers]

Well there's still the Jrs who are coming up.

What a sadly hilarious refrain now. Last successful junior to senior move was I and K!!

I want to look at this with Great hope!! Krylova being from the North American school where both skaters need talent saw that loboda had weak skating skills and demanded drozd drop her and not be like Bukin! Chained to a inferior partner meaning no world or Olympic medals level success will ever come.

 

[Giselle]

Please Pavel, have a tryout with Sofia Polishchuk

 

[NoNameFace]

Sigh. And I had the hope that this new generation of young Russian ice dancers would be different.But there they go again.

There is really no point in dwelling why Russian Ice Dance is in place it is, if there is no permanence and longevity in teams' partnerships aside of very few examples nowadays. It almost looks like they expect to have instant success and raise from juniors to seniors on the same level and win things - well, it does not work that way...Junior teams quite often struggle with transition to seniors and then if no significant results are following, they split up - this is not a recipe for success; it is very rare to have junior-to-senior transition like Virtue/Moir or Davis/White had and it takes a lot of patience, hard work and joint idea put inside for a team to make it successful. And well, it also depends how team/coach is defining 'success' - if it is all about medals, titles, coming on top in everything then no wonder why we see so many splits and no longevity in Russian Ice Dance scene; for me, the stress should be put on understanding 'success' as a 'progress', making it long distance, not short-sighted. Hence my immense respect and sentiment invested in Bobrova/Soloviev who stuck together for so many years despite ups and downs, but developing their signature style and expression in process. Yes, they were not overwhelmingly successful, but for sure they left their mark in Ice Dance perspective, at least for me. young teams in Russia really should pay attention and take notes from B/S example how to make their partnership and competitive career work.

 

[bramweld]

Please Pavel, have a tryout with Sofia Polishchuk

Well, maybe they already did. She's right there. Oh well, apparently his mother manages everything he does carefully. Maybe she didn't approve of that choice.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Well, maybe they already did. She's right there. Oh well, apparently his mother manages everything he does carefully. Maybe she didn't approve of that choice.

Yeah, but at one point you have to wonder what possibilities of improving Pavel will have with some other unknown girl? I mean, unless they are begging Elena to go back to dancing, assuming she's going to regain her form, there's no one else left? At least they are doing the musical chairs right now, but it doesn't really set a good precedent for the future.

It does make the game easier for P/M and Z/G, and even S/A. If that's a good thing or not, time will tell.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Hence my immense respect and sentiment invested in Bobrova/Soloviev who stuck together for so many years despite ups and downs, but developing their signature style and expression in process. Yes, they were not overwhelmingly successful, but for sure they left their mark in Ice Dance perspective, at least for me. young teams in Russia really should pay attention and take notes from B/S example how to make their partnership and competitive career work.

This is probably the most important reason why I defended them so many times, and cheered for them until the end. Also, it should be of note that this is why S/B climbed the ranks this quad, when other teams with more latent talent were left behind.

 

[NoNameFace]

This is probably the most important reason why I defended them so many times, and cheered for them until the end. Also, it should be of note that this is why S/B climbed the ranks this quad, when other teams with more latent talent were left behind.

Bobrova/Soloviev sure were not everyone's taste, but they embodied significance of Russian Ice Dance, mixing that classic Russian approach with modern touches, with mixed reviews, but staying afloat. Their 'Anna Karenina' FD is for me one of the best FD ever made or one that produced the most memorable, touching performances ever (NHK and Europeans especially). I think that Stepanova/Bukin are having that longevity and stability in partnership, feeling matched and comfortable already to push themselves in terms of repertoire, finding more signature for their partnership. They should explore more upbeat music, something requiring expression and energy - I've always preferred them so far in more dynamic pieces. They looked very cliché and dated with last season's FD while their SD was very effective and freshly looking - they need to pay attention more how to balance their abilities/skills with aesthetic that will compliment it equally in RD and FD.

 

[coldblueeyes]

I think that Stepanova/Bukin are having that longevity and stability in partnership, feeling matched and comfortable already to push themselves in terms of repertoire, finding more signature for their partnership. They should explore more upbeat music, something requiring expression and energy - I've always preferred them so far in more dynamic pieces. They looked very cliché and dated with last season's FD while their SD was very effective and freshly looking - they need to pay attention more how to balance their abilities/skills with aesthetic that will compliment it equally in RD and FD.

The thing with S/B is that they are well-packaged, and their programs even if not completely effective, have wow-moments and always are adapted to the music. The technical side is what hinders their success.

 

[gmyers]

There is really no point in dwelling why Russian Ice Dance is in place it is, if there is no permanence and longevity in teams' partnerships aside of very few examples nowadays. It almost looks like they expect to have instant success and raise from juniors to seniors on the same level and win things - well, it does not work that way...Junior teams quite often struggle with transition to seniors and then if no significant results are following, they split up - this is not a recipe for success; it is very rare to have junior-to-senior transition like Virtue/Moir or Davis/White had and it takes a lot of patience, hard work and joint idea put inside for a team to make it successful. And well, it also depends how team/coach is defining 'success' - if it is all about medals, titles, coming on top in everything then no wonder why we see so many splits and no longevity in Russian Ice Dance scene; for me, the stress should be put on understanding 'success' as a 'progress', making it long distance, not short-sighted. Hence my immense respect and sentiment invested in Bobrova/Soloviev who stuck together for so many years despite ups and downs, but developing their signature style and expression in process. Yes, they were not overwhelmingly successful, but for sure they left their mark in Ice Dance perspective, at least for me. young teams in Russia really should pay attention and take notes from B/S example how to make their partnership and competitive career work.

But why couldn’t b/s medal at worlds or Olympics in 2017-2018 and thus have a good “Russian” career in ice dance? Because they never worked on her posture problems. They gave up. They decided better to stay at their own level of 5th through 10th in the world. She needed to fix her posture problems as it meant she had very bad skating deficiencies and was never going to get world or Olympic medals or even gpf qualifying scores! They were not even at the gpf in 2017-2018. They were considered inferior to c/l! I am very very happy it looks like drozd got away from his bobrova away from his Stepanova! That means a partner who refuses in every way to learn how to skate to be world or Olympic champion or even qualify for the gpf.

 

[Giselle]

There is really no point in dwelling why Russian Ice Dance is in place it is, if there is no permanence and longevity in teams' partnerships aside of very few examples nowadays. It almost looks like they expect to have instant success and raise from juniors to seniors on the same level and win things - well, it does not work that way...Junior teams quite often struggle with transition to seniors and then if no significant results are following, they split up - this is not a recipe for success; it is very rare to have junior-to-senior transition like Virtue/Moir or Davis/White had and it takes a lot of patience, hard work and joint idea put inside for a team to make it successful. And well, it also depends how team/coach is defining 'success' - if it is all about medals, titles, coming on top in everything then no wonder why we see so many splits and no longevity in Russian Ice Dance scene; for me, the stress should be put on understanding 'success' as a 'progress', making it long distance, not short-sighted. Hence my immense respect and sentiment invested in Bobrova/Soloviev who stuck together for so many years despite ups and downs, but developing their signature style and expression in process. Yes, they were not overwhelmingly successful, but for sure they left their mark in Ice Dance perspective, at least for me. young teams in Russia really should pay attention and take notes from B/S example how to make their partnership and competitive career work.

I agree that the junior/transition can be hard. Interestingly, when you look at meteoric rises, it's often longtime skating partners (and turning seniors/having the right program in the post-olympic years helps as well since there are many retirements).

If you look at the whole ice dance podium from the Olympics for example : V/M started skating together at 7 & 9, P/C at 9 & 10, S/S at 10 and 13. (And D/W started skating together at 9 & 10).

V/M had to face the disappointment of not making the 2006 Olympic team and I remember in their last junior years there were fears that Tessa was going to be too tall for Scott but they stuck together.
P/C had to face the disappointment of not making the 2014 Olympic team and not winning Junior Worlds and there has always been talks about Gabriella being too weak for Guillaume but they stuck together.
S/S had to face the disappointment of placing 4th at junior worlds after being 2nd the year before and there were talks that year about Maya being too short for Alex, but they stuck together, Maya grew a couple of inches and they won bronze at Senior Worlds the following year!

I wish junior teams would take note of this instead of dumping their 10+ year partners at the first chance...

 

[gmyers]

I agree that the junior/transition can be hard. Interestingly, when you look at meteoric rises, it's often longtime skating partners (and turning seniors/having the right program in the post-olympic years helps as well since there are many retirements).

If you look at the whole ice dance podium from the Olympics for example : V/M started skating together at 7 & 9, P/C at 9 & 10, S/S at 10 and 13. (And D/W started skating together at 9 & 10).

V/M had to face the disappointment of not making the 2006 Olympic team and I remember in their last junior years there were fears that Tessa was going to be too tall for Scott but they stuck together.
P/C had to face the disappointment of not making the 2014 Olympic team and not winning Junior Worlds and there has always been talks about Gabriella being too weak for Guillaume but they stuck together.
S/S had to face the disappointment of placing 4th at junior worlds after being 2nd the year before and there were talks that year about Maya being too short for Alex, but they stuck together, Maya grew a couple of inches and they won bronze at Senior Worlds the following year!

I wish junior teams would take note of this instead of dumping their 10+ year partners at the first chance...

There is a huge difference in having a lot of growing pains like s/s or p/c and what the problem with l/d was! Everyone was saying loboda can’t skate! That’s not she is too tall or too short! That’s not being able to skate! There’s not a future there that means world or Olympic medals or gpf qualification. Both soloviev and Bukin have stayed with “can’t skate” partners and even though they rose to be top 10 in the world why would drozd want to have that ceiling? Why stay with a “can’t skate” partner? Papqdakis is not as good as cizeron! That just means she is amazing but not astonishingly brilliant! Drozd is very good and has potential. Loboda is flat out medium to low talent in skating skills. Being successful in jrs has been it for Russians because while other people are learning they are going all out no matter the technique and winning. If they don’t win looking like seniors.

 

[Giselle]

There is a huge difference in having a lot of growing pains like s/s or p/c and what the problem with l/d was! Everyone was saying loboda can’t skate! That’s not she is too tall or too short! That’s not being able to skate! There’s not a future there that means world or Olympic medals or gpf qualification. Both soloviev and Bukin have stayed with “can’t skate” partners and even though they rose to be top 10 in the world why would drozd want to have that ceiling? Why stay with a “can’t skate” partner? Papqdakis is not as good as cizeron! That just means she is amazing but not astonishingly brilliant! Drozd is very good and has potential. Loboda is flat out medium to low talent in skating skills. Being successful in jrs has been it for Russians because while other people are learning they are going all out no matter the technique and winning. If they don’t win looking like seniors.

I wasn't really talking about L/D tbh, I am more gutted that P/V split when they are still young and after skating together for about 12 years (?).

About Loboda, she was packaged terribly last year, that Chicago program was awful. But she was a great Giselle in 2014...she needs programs that highlight her qualities not her flaws...

About P/C, well I remember the year they moved from novice to juniors in France and they were compared to Belbin/Agosto, I kid you not! She with a lot of charisma selling the programs but weak SS and Guillaume the better skater but too reserved on the ice. There was an interview a while ago (I think 2015) with Haguenauer where he mentions that he did not think that P/C were that special and Guillaume was very shy and in his world, until he became their coach and saw how they trained and their potential. Guillaume has not always been viewed as this "astonishingly brilliant" male ice dancer. He was quite overshadowed in France during his early junior years by Neil Brown and Alexis Miart who were much more charismatic but these two dumped their partners for supposedly better partners and are not competing anymore....
P/C are lucky that they stayed with her mom as their coach (even part time) for the longest time possible because I am 100% convinced that had they moved full-time to Lyon sooner, Guillaume would have been strongly encouraged to dump Gaby for a stronger partner sooner or later...

 

[gmyers]

I wasn't really talking about L/D tbh, I am more gutted that P/V split when they are still young and after skating together for about 12 years (?).

About Loboda, she was packaged terribly last year, that Chicago program was awful. But she was a great Giselle in 2014...she needs programs that highlight her qualities not her flaws...

About P/C, well I remember the year they moved from novice to juniors in France and they were compared to Belbin/Agosto, I kid you not! She with a lot of charisma selling the programs but weak SS and Guillaume the better skater but too reserved on the ice. There was an interview a while ago (I think 2015) with Haguenauer where he mentions that he did not think that P/C were that special and Guillaume was very shy and in his world, until he became their coach and saw how they trained and their potential. Guillaume has not always been viewed as this "astonishingly brilliant" male ice dancer. He was quite overshadowed in France during his early junior years by Neil Brown and Alexis Miart who were much more charismatic but these two dumped their partners for supposedly better partners and are not competing anymore....
P/C are lucky that they stayed with her mom as their coach (even part time) for the longest time possible because I am 100% convinced that had they moved full-time to Lyon sooner, Guillaume would have been strongly encouraged to dump Gaby for a stronger partner sooner or later...

People underestimated papadakis ability to improve and she did improve and then when she went to the best coach in ice dance history dubreuil she really did even better! So if you have shown a capacity to improve why would there be any dumping? Especially if you are good to begin with but inferior to the partner.

Russian juniors are braking up because the Russian system says only one skater needs talent and that’s not working anymore in seniors. Russian teams together for a decade are learning that you can’t have one partner with bobrova or Stepanova skating skills. P/v and l/d had to split. So should b/s and s/b. No need to be together for years! Look at h/b and c/b and g/p and so many more.

Loboda was packaged terribly but that doesn’t mean she had a future anyway. Her best future was a Stepanova or bobrova future. Why does drozd want that?