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2018 Canadian Nationals Senior Short Dance
- Thread starter Mango
- Start date
I don't think this move has benefitted them at all, in fact I think they have regressed. Their material has certainly been waaayyy inferior on the dull side. I know most people didn't like This Bitter Earth (I did) but I thought the experimental nature of it was a good chance to take — you have to experiment or you don't grow. Four Seasons was one of the most brilliant choreographic FDs of all time, IMO. Loved Marie de Buenos Aires. Then with Morozov they started skating to warhorses and it all looked dated and generic. Plus I don't see that much technical improvement. It's been terribly frustrating the last few years. People like to point to Virtue/Moir's return as the reason for the backwards slide of their results, but I think it's actually been their skating (and the rapid improvement of other teams).
I thought they slowed a little into and through the NTS, but those twizzles were some of the best I've ever seen them do.
But tentative on the twizzles, whatever that means (slow across the ice?), actually paid off. Their twizzles were really synchronous, including the third set that has not been as good as the first two in that regard before, maybe excep the very end, and they also kept the same (very close) distance from each other all the way through the three sets.
I am always surprised to see discussions about the scores from national championships. These scores are fake and this is true for all countries. This being said, 85.12 is even more than fake, the SD max overall score being 85.3! The max for the free being 124.7, will VM get 124+ ? 
Better slow down before twizzles than a repeat of what happenned before them :/ Then it will be all about going for it because internationnally, if you look tentative into your twizzle your GOE can decrease by a lot.
NTS : I think they are trying hard not to repeat the GPF errors and not rush through it. It did cost them 1.5 points.
But this SD is definitely validated I think, they don't have to change a thing. It's all about muscle memory now.
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If clean I expect them to go for high 123 low 124
It's their last nationals after all !
NTS : I think they are trying hard not to repeat the GPF errors and not rush through it. It did cost them 1.5 points.
But this SD is definitely validated I think, they don't have to change a thing. It's all about muscle memory now.
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I am always surprised to see discussions about the scores from national championships. These scores are fake and this is true for all countries. This being said, 85.12 is even more than fake, the SD max overall score being 85.3! The max for the free being 124.7, will VM get 124+ ?
If clean I expect them to go for high 123 low 124
It's their last nationals after all !
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- Jan 8, 2004
Did you watch their dance before making this post? Just curious because they skated their SD the best I've ever seen. Granted, it wasn't live but I was WOWED regardless.
Most everyone knows the scores of every Nats is a joke. By this time in the season, we all know what to be looking for, so scores don't mean much other than for a team to know that their Fed is behind them. With that SD score SC is saying theyre behind VM 100%, which probably feels good for VM, especially after their previous experience before Sochi. The mental boost is important.
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I am always surprised to see discussions about the scores from national championships. These scores are fake and this is true for all countries. This being said, 85.12 is even more than fake, the SD max overall score being 85.3! The max for the free being 124.7, will VM get 124+ ?
Why is it even more fake? For Nationals, it's not even very much inflation. They've score 82.68 for this program internationally (in Canada, but international panel). That's only a difference of 2.44 points. Plenty of teams have been more inflated at their Nationals. It just seems bigger to people because it's so close to the max score, but they've been pretty close to that internationally. It's nationals, so ~2.5 inflation in points isn't out of the ordinary.
Of course Nationals inflate scores but the lowest score V/M have gotten for that SD was 80.92 at NHK with a visible mistake on the twizzles that dropped them a level and garnered barely any GOE. They currently have the WR in the SD with this very program at 82.68. In every event they have been given 10´s in PCS from various judges. At the GPF the averaged about 9.742 on PCS with loads of 9.75's and 10 (two judges at the end bringing it down a bit, no prizes for guessing who)....
So with all that in mind yeah it's Nationals inflation but it isn't like they pulled the numbers out of their asses. Just as with P/C's FD at their Nationals. In both cases the numbers aren't outrageous but when you have a panel full of Canadians or a panel full of French judges scoring two great programs this will happen. Yes to show their support but also because coming from the same culture with similar tastes you will more likely see things the same way. Will we see them in international competition, unlikely as there you have more diverse panels with differing opinions and desires of what they wish to see as a final result but they are great programs but in these two cases it doesn't, imo, make their results a joke at their respective nationals.
Now in the case of Gilles/ Poirier I think that was a joke
So with all that in mind yeah it's Nationals inflation but it isn't like they pulled the numbers out of their asses. Just as with P/C's FD at their Nationals. In both cases the numbers aren't outrageous but when you have a panel full of Canadians or a panel full of French judges scoring two great programs this will happen. Yes to show their support but also because coming from the same culture with similar tastes you will more likely see things the same way. Will we see them in international competition, unlikely as there you have more diverse panels with differing opinions and desires of what they wish to see as a final result but they are great programs but in these two cases it doesn't, imo, make their results a joke at their respective nationals.
Now in the case of Gilles/ Poirier I think that was a joke
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I still think V/M are the best ice dance team in the world, although I think the gap with P/C is not as great as it was last year. The judges this season don't seem to agree - but I wonder if that's going to hold during the Olympics?
I had gone off W/P for a while - I personally think they've been on a slide in terms of interesting programs since the Buenos Aires tango program, which is still one of my favorites.
That's why the fall in the SD was so discouraging... because that was the first time in a long time that I've found them really engaging. I saw that Cuban program in entirely differently than earlier in the season. It was so improved, super high quality. I'm going to try to watch JSM with fresh eyes, to see if the improvement in their skating shows up there, too.
I had gone off W/P for a while - I personally think they've been on a slide in terms of interesting programs since the Buenos Aires tango program, which is still one of my favorites.
That's why the fall in the SD was so discouraging... because that was the first time in a long time that I've found them really engaging. I saw that Cuban program in entirely differently than earlier in the season. It was so improved, super high quality. I'm going to try to watch JSM with fresh eyes, to see if the improvement in their skating shows up there, too.
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- Nov 12, 2012
my additional few cents on Carolanne/Shane and Piper/Paul mainly...
I think that there's something effortlessly charming in Carolanne/Shane's skating and presentation - there's that feeling of them being on the same page skill-wise, being in synch with the music and with the purpose of the performance/program they have. They may be not yet the most sophisticated team, with cleared style and 'trademark' about them, but I think that they have very important quality to build on further: Carolanne seems to be very 'understanding' and instinctive about following Shane's lead in a very strong, confident manner that allows her to stand out alongside him; I think it's quite crutial capability to have in a young team to establish a great connection in partnering, some naturally-looking mechanism in way they are working together to get them on new grounds. Speaking of SD, I was not very convinced on its first outings (her entourage looked too heavy comparing to him and there were too manny 'jitter' moments), but here it clicked perfectly in basically all areas: dance looked young and fresh, their attitude was focused, yet felt playful and engaged into music and movement, great flow in between elements, quite nice (already chieved) finishing of the movement. I liked the most first and last section, dynamic, energetic parts - they kind of have this 'synamic' strike it them, spring in step to pull more energetic themes off I think, also Shane's bedazzle added to the costume made the visual more cohesive (also, on vanity side, I'm in love with Carolanne's hair!
). One thing I'd work on more is Carolanne's control of upper body movement with edge work, as there were moments (especially exiting from elements/some transitions) of her being too 'jumpy' or with hands too busy, Shane though...I swear, both Firus brothers could give quite a lot male dancers run for their money: smooth skills, easy on eyes, commanding and confident partnering, great performance skill blossoming and presence to develop, only watch and clap with respect and appreciation.
I am personally over the moon for Piper and Paul - and with all reality check on their score received; no way internationally they would receive such score for that kind of dance, no matter how perfectly executed (I'm not that naive), but my take on this National inflation is that when your skaters are bringing it fiercely on the table, excelling pretty much all inside of their material technically and presentation-wise, there is no issue to give them the boost and show them that this is the right direction to follow. I am their avid supporter, but with this SD I am sold from the very first time seeing it mainly because of totally non-standard direction followed stylistically in music and movement/rhythm: it's kind of vintage, kind of 'tongue-in-cheek' design (Yma Sumac!), but treated with right dose of humour, elegance, dance-y referrence and mostly spiced by incredible character, flair given into the dance by both of them. From the cheeky costume change, expression,this relaxed feel about the dance, 'bossa' atmosphere about it to costumes perfectly going with character of the program they are proving again that the thoughtfulness and originality in approach taken differentiate them from the field - and if only was it backed by consistent execution like yesterday's...I think that the 'problem' wih reception of that dance could lay in this 'particularity', specific kind of expression and visual created by Piper and Paul, also this particularity of music chosen - it's all just not suiting most of people, there's not that universal appeal, flow in it; I, however, am totally into contrasting stuff, mixing 'bossa cubana' bouncing action with quirk and out-there factor, non-traditional approach taken towards rhumba and the second part of the dance; somehow it gives a dimension of them as performers looking at those two parts, separated so cleverly by those sleeves from Paul
And to add one more observation to Tessa and Scott's dance - watching it few times more already, I noted the great attention given to the nuancing/detailing transitions in and out of elements in regards to the music and rhythm, e.g. exit from non-touching step sequence with little slowing before picking up the tempo/speed again (to the 'woo-hoo' voiceovers part of Rolling Stones piece), then Tessa's little steps (resembling maybe chasse in ballroom movement?) just before first notes of 'Hotel California' and pattern, their lines created in partial step sequence, exit from it by Tessa with accentuation of beat change before twizzles...I think it is a consequence of those changes introduced to the program altogether, making it more fluid and as intimate experience, this notice of little details and those embelishments movement-wise - as they probably aimed for more continuity between rhythms and cohesion/sleek outlook of whole choreography/performance of it, those nuances are really shining now for me, making the dance overall more intricate, yet still bold and vivid.
I think that there's something effortlessly charming in Carolanne/Shane's skating and presentation - there's that feeling of them being on the same page skill-wise, being in synch with the music and with the purpose of the performance/program they have. They may be not yet the most sophisticated team, with cleared style and 'trademark' about them, but I think that they have very important quality to build on further: Carolanne seems to be very 'understanding' and instinctive about following Shane's lead in a very strong, confident manner that allows her to stand out alongside him; I think it's quite crutial capability to have in a young team to establish a great connection in partnering, some naturally-looking mechanism in way they are working together to get them on new grounds. Speaking of SD, I was not very convinced on its first outings (her entourage looked too heavy comparing to him and there were too manny 'jitter' moments), but here it clicked perfectly in basically all areas: dance looked young and fresh, their attitude was focused, yet felt playful and engaged into music and movement, great flow in between elements, quite nice (already chieved) finishing of the movement. I liked the most first and last section, dynamic, energetic parts - they kind of have this 'synamic' strike it them, spring in step to pull more energetic themes off I think, also Shane's bedazzle added to the costume made the visual more cohesive (also, on vanity side, I'm in love with Carolanne's hair!
). One thing I'd work on more is Carolanne's control of upper body movement with edge work, as there were moments (especially exiting from elements/some transitions) of her being too 'jumpy' or with hands too busy, Shane though...I swear, both Firus brothers could give quite a lot male dancers run for their money: smooth skills, easy on eyes, commanding and confident partnering, great performance skill blossoming and presence to develop, only watch and clap with respect and appreciation.I am personally over the moon for Piper and Paul - and with all reality check on their score received; no way internationally they would receive such score for that kind of dance, no matter how perfectly executed (I'm not that naive), but my take on this National inflation is that when your skaters are bringing it fiercely on the table, excelling pretty much all inside of their material technically and presentation-wise, there is no issue to give them the boost and show them that this is the right direction to follow. I am their avid supporter, but with this SD I am sold from the very first time seeing it mainly because of totally non-standard direction followed stylistically in music and movement/rhythm: it's kind of vintage, kind of 'tongue-in-cheek' design (Yma Sumac!), but treated with right dose of humour, elegance, dance-y referrence and mostly spiced by incredible character, flair given into the dance by both of them. From the cheeky costume change, expression,this relaxed feel about the dance, 'bossa' atmosphere about it to costumes perfectly going with character of the program they are proving again that the thoughtfulness and originality in approach taken differentiate them from the field - and if only was it backed by consistent execution like yesterday's...I think that the 'problem' wih reception of that dance could lay in this 'particularity', specific kind of expression and visual created by Piper and Paul, also this particularity of music chosen - it's all just not suiting most of people, there's not that universal appeal, flow in it; I, however, am totally into contrasting stuff, mixing 'bossa cubana' bouncing action with quirk and out-there factor, non-traditional approach taken towards rhumba and the second part of the dance; somehow it gives a dimension of them as performers looking at those two parts, separated so cleverly by those sleeves from Paul
And to add one more observation to Tessa and Scott's dance - watching it few times more already, I noted the great attention given to the nuancing/detailing transitions in and out of elements in regards to the music and rhythm, e.g. exit from non-touching step sequence with little slowing before picking up the tempo/speed again (to the 'woo-hoo' voiceovers part of Rolling Stones piece), then Tessa's little steps (resembling maybe chasse in ballroom movement?) just before first notes of 'Hotel California' and pattern, their lines created in partial step sequence, exit from it by Tessa with accentuation of beat change before twizzles...I think it is a consequence of those changes introduced to the program altogether, making it more fluid and as intimate experience, this notice of little details and those embelishments movement-wise - as they probably aimed for more continuity between rhythms and cohesion/sleek outlook of whole choreography/performance of it, those nuances are really shining now for me, making the dance overall more intricate, yet still bold and vivid.
Well, the US judge, Sharon Rogers, will be judging the ice dancing event at the Olympic Games, it turns out. And she is a renowned, world-renowned, V/M hater. (especially since their comeback). According to her, V/M are worse than Shibutanis, Chock/Bates, and Hubbell/Donohue. So you can bet that it will be much, much, harder a hill to climb for V/M with the likes of Sharon Rogers on the panel. This is not to be defamatory. Look at her marks.
I went back to look at the GPF panels, and some of the judges that were very favorable towards V/M at the 2017 World Championships were absent at the GPF and replaced with others who preferred P/C. The Ukrainian judge who ranked V/M 1st in both SD and FD at the 2017 WC, unfortunately, has died. He will not be at the Olympics.
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Here's the RDS (the French version of TSN) coverage of Virtue's & Moir's short dance, in case some of you might be interested in the French commentary.
SD: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6djmja
SD kiss & cry: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6dhlt6
Although I had filmed these with my camera (which creates 1080p videos) from my friend's TV screen, the quality is fairly good for this type of recording. I don't have a tripod, so I did my best not to move my hands as much as possible.
SD: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6djmja
SD kiss & cry: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6dhlt6
Although I had filmed these with my camera (which creates 1080p videos) from my friend's TV screen, the quality is fairly good for this type of recording. I don't have a tripod, so I did my best not to move my hands as much as possible.
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