2018 Internationaux de France Men's Short Program

[moriel]

No, Samarin still getting +GOE on a quad he turned out of is everything that's wrong with the ISU.

Rewarding quality skating over sloppy failed quads is everything that is right with the ISU.

I guess it depends on the definition of what quality skating is. Personally, I prefer watching sloppy quads over a skater who does not even try.

 

[century2009]

It's been a wild GP but in the men's division, the expected favorite has gotten gold so far. Shoma/Nathan/Yuzuru/Shoma/Yuzuru...

You know Keegan beat Shoma in the SP in Canada as Shoma also had a fall like Nathan.

So same story that the Top guys would need to make errors to be overtaken, and the other competitors need to be clean to overtake them.

 

[Mrs. P]

I guess it depends on the definition of what quality skating is. Personally, I prefer watching sloppy quads over a skater who does not even try.

And you CAN watch them. You just can't expect them to win every time. Jason's clean programs don't always win.

In fact, this is like only the third time in his international skating career he's been 1st after the SP and the first time in a GP. So this doesn't happen often, really.

 

[Metis]

I agree overall with this sentiment, but with the way leveling works, I do find some level 2 step sequences much more dynamic and interesting then level 4s- it more has to do with the skaters themselves. Same with spins. The leveling causes a lot of skaters to do similar spins due to having to check certain boxes to get levels. It’s very restrictive.

I agree that level requirements for spins and step sequences have sapped the former, at least, of creativity and interest on the whole. And I think step sequences need to be allowed to breathe again. Trimming the list of allowable steps and turns was one of the ISU decisions I am most bitter about even now.

That being said, can you give me some examples of interesting and/or aesthetically superior Level 2 step sequences? Because I am drawing a blank in trying to think of a recent senior skater whose step sequence was choreographed to meet only the requirements for Level 2. There are many step sequences that have the content for Level 3/4, but are executed as a Level 2 due to execution. A step sequence that only meets the content requirements for Level 2 would have only seven ISU-classified “difficult turns or steps,” and would only need to meet one of the other three features (upper body movement, CW and CCW rotation with use of the whole body, and two different combinations of three turns on each foot).

 

[kimi492]

Gotta be honest - Tracy and Brian’s reactions in the kiss & cry confuses me after Jason’s skate. Brian’s reaction was positive but it also seemed like wow I never thought you’d ever score that in your life - which shouldn’t be that huge of a surprise considering how quality Jason’s elements are and the judges have shown time and time again that when Jason does well they will reward him PCS wise. Tracy was very reserved - didn’t seem all that happy with the score which surprises me considering by all accounts Tracy is who had to push Brian to take Jason on. Was she expecting something better? I doubt it. Did she think he scored too high? There seemed to be a little tension - Jason didn’t seem as excited as I expected - that’s a huge score without a quad. Maybe staying calm is a tactic to prepare for the free

 

[SnowWhite]

Gotta be honest - Tracy and Brian’s reactions in the kiss & cry confuses me after Jason’s skate. Brian’s reaction was positive but it also seemed like wow I never thought you’d ever score that in your life - which shouldn’t be that huge of a surprise considering how quality Jason’s elements are and the judges have shown time and time again that when Jason does well they will reward him PCS wise. Tracy was very reserved - didn’t seem all that happy with the score which surprises me considering by all accounts Tracy is who had to push Brian to take Jason on. Was she expecting something better? I doubt it. Did she think he scored too high? There seemed to be a little tension - Jason didn’t seem as excited as I expected - that’s a huge score without a quad. Maybe staying calm is a tactic to prepare for the free

I think you're over-thinking this a lot. Brian's face is like "oh wow that's a big score". Which it is - one of the highest of the season, without a quad. Tons of fans were wowed by that score. That doesn't mean you don't think the person deserves it. And remember, it's not like the coaches are seeing a tech box. They can't tell if he got all the levels, etc. necessarily. I've seen Romain react basically like that to scores P/C got - and obviously it's not because he didn't think they could do it. Tracy seemed perfectly happy too. She exclaims "Yes" very enthusiastically when the score came up, she just calmed down a bit before Brian and Jason. And nothing in that says tension to me. Obviously YMMV, but I watched it several times and I don't see what you described.

 

[friedbanana]

Deniss is such a great performer!!! Really like his SP this year

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

Such a pity that the unpopular opinion thread is closed exactly when i wanted to write that i like the yellow trousers of Dennis (but i hate his FS costume).

 

[anonymoose_au]

Such a pity that the unpopular opinion thread is closed exactly when i wanted to write that i like the yellow trousers of Dennis (but i hate his FS costume).

I totally agree! Dennis's yellow pants make my life! I smile so hard when I saw them! I can't remember his FS costume so I'll have to reserve judgement.

In other news, I watched this after the event - it was on way too early for me, and I'm super happy for Jason, he was awesome! I hope he can keep up the momenteum in the free!

But...what happened to Boyang?! Why was he in 7th? I mean he fell, but so did a few other guys...I thought his program was quite good and showed a lot of personality! Did he lose a lot of levels on spins or something?

 

[Skater Boy]

Bravo to Jason. Great skate though without a quad who cares - each jump was very well executed. He probably plateaued score wise wih this program of triplesbut wow.

 

[satine]

Why should skaters get high points for trying quads - they should get high points for landing them.

Louder for the people in the back!

 

[MaiKatze]

Do folks actually know why Boyang gets so disturbingly close to the boards consistently? Bc it's so dangerous and bizarre... whyy...

German Eurosports commentators said the following, and I think so too: IF a skater is too close to the boards or consistently almost crashes into them, it's a sign of insecurity. Meaning, in the set up of the jumps, there is that moment when you actually decide, I'm jumping. If you are not confident for whatever reason, that moment perhaps lasts another half second. In that half-second, you remain in motion of course. So that hesitation costs time and bam, now you jump, but you hesitated. That's why you're too close to the boards.

I believe this explanation makes sense. You can actually see it in Boyang's expression, that he begins to 'think' and then it's 'almost' too late.

Still, I'm not too worried about him. He didn't make the GPF for a while, and he's usually not on top of his game around this time of the year. He knows when to peak.

 

[champs]

German Eurosports commentators said the following, and I think so too: IF a skater is too close to the boards or consistently almost crashes into them, it's a sign of insecurity. Meaning, in the set up of the jumps, there is that moment when you actually decide, I'm jumping. If you are not confident for whatever reason, that moment perhaps lasts another half second. In that half-second, you remain in motion of course. So that hesitation costs time and bam, now you jump, but you hesitated. That's why you're too close to the boards.

I believe this explanation makes sense. You can actually see it in Boyang's expression, that he begins to 'think' and then it's 'almost' too late.

I'n not the skater himself so I can only guess, but I doubt this theory. I've seen Midori Ito, Nobunari Oda, and Patrick Chan frequently took off too closely to the boards for the types of jumps that they were comfortable with (often combo jumps, and never with an axel.) I think certain skaters decide to take off the moment they think is the optimal remaining distance from the boards in their head as they skate backward but has tendency to simply estimate that quantity consistently wrong.

I'd guess popped jumps and off axis jumps are the outcomes that have more to do with the insecurity described in your post.

 

[MaiKatze]

I'n not the skater himself so I can only guess, but I doubt this theory. I've seen Midori Ito, Nobunari Oda, and Patrick Chan frequently took off too closely to the boards for the types of jumps that they were comfortable with (often combo jumps, and never with an axel.) I think certain skaters decide to take off the moment they think is the optimal remaining distance from the boards in their head as they skate backward but has tendency to simply estimate that quantity consistently wrong.

I'd guess popped jumps and off axis jumps are the outcomes that have more to do with the insecurity described in your post.

Well, the german Eurosport expert said it who was an Olympian in the 90s, so a skater himself. So, this theory is not without base.

 

[champs]

Well, the german Eurosport expert said it who was an Olympian in the 90s, so a skater himself. So, this theory is not without base.

If that German commentator himself/herself had tendency to overthink/hesitate before taking off for a difficult jump ending up too close to the board in his/her active period, I don't cast a doubt about it for his/her own case. But there are examples such as Patrick Chan's 4T-3T combo which he executed pretty consistently close to the board and landed pretty consistently with no sign of insecurity at the take off (which was crucial in his dominance post Vancouver Olympics) that attributing every instance of jumping close to the board to insecurity just because some Olympian skater thinks so from his/her experience isn't convincing to me, and in the case of Boyang's 4Lz for instance he has always done that jump so close to the board including his first senior season when I doubt anyone felt that jump was always launched insecurely.

Again, I'm only speculating. He or she could be right and I could be totally wrong.