2018 Olympic Season: Ice Dance | Page 22 | Golden Skate

2018 Olympic Season: Ice Dance

I meant they only have one spot for Euros, Worlds and Olympics, not talking about their possibility for GP assignments next season. As long as they don't increase their berth in those major events, there will be endless dramas between the two teams.

Or one of the teams will get out. Or Smart & Diaz will go skate for Britain.

A second spot at Europeans is doable:
Three Russian teams.
Two Italian teams.
One French team.

Still four spots very much in play:
Looks like Israel is out.
Coomes & Buckland are a pretty safe bet to be top 10.
Fournier-Beaudry & Sorenson also a likely top 10.

After that, everybody is pretty up & down this season:
Nazarova & Nikitin
Kaliszek & Spodyriev
Agafanova & Ucar
Lauriault & Le Gac
Abachkina & Thauron
Lorenz & Polizoakis
Yanovskaya & Lukacs

Hurtado & Khaliavin would likely need to take out all but one.
 
Or one of the teams will get out. Or Smart & Diaz will go skate for Britain.

A second spot at Europeans is doable:
Three Russian teams.
Two Italian teams.
One French team.

Still four spots very much in play:
Looks like Israel is out.
Coomes & Buckland are a pretty safe bet to be top 10.
Fournier-Beaudry & Sorenson also a likely top 10.

After that, everybody is pretty up & down this season:
Nazarova & Nikitin
Kalizcek & Spodyriev
Agafanova & Ucar
Lauriault & Le Gac
Abachkina & Thauron
Lorenz & Polizoakis
Yanovskaya & Lukacs

Hurtado & Khaliavin would likely need to take out all but one.

Last year, H/K got beaten by not one but 2 french teams.
 
I didn't realize that Olivia is such young because I always assumed she is well-over mid 20s given her mature looks. LOL. She should've not burst her feeling out in the open space, but sometimes, people need a breathing room.
 
Yeah, but when you're a public person it usually comes back to (publicly) bit you in the as*.
 
I didn't closely follow Khaliavin's career with his previous partner, Monko, but really liked him even though their programs were a sort of sleep-inducing for me. I knew he was good, but he is very good in H/K's two programs! His dancing abilities shine through the SD. Sarah needs to catch up with his calibre It's really frustrating though..why female ice dancers' abilities are not on par with their partners in general. I don't know why the Russian feds let him so easily to Spain. He could've been paired with Elena Ilinykh if he still competes for Russia.
 
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I didn't closely follow Khaliavin's career with his previous partner, Monko, but really liked him even though their programs were a sort of sleeping-inducing for me. I knew he was good, but he is very good in their two programs! His dancing abilities shine through the SD. Sarah needs to catch up with his calibre (it's really frustrating though..why female ice dancers' abilities are not on par with their partners in general). I don't know why the Russian feds let him so easily to Spain. He could've been paired with Elina Ilinykh if he still competes for Russia.

Well, it is obvious that the deal worked out for him, he will go to the Olympics and he has a partner who is very disciplined and who does not like dramas.

Pavel is very talented and many people can say that Alla is not as talented as Elena, and even so Pavel has not thought to leave Alla for Elena, that says a lot about how Elena is seen by other skaters, most of the time talent is not enough.
 
Well, it is obvious that the deal worked out for him, he will go to the Olympics and he has a partner who is very disciplined and who does not like dramas.

Pavel is very talented and many people can say that Alla is not as talented as Elena, and even so Pavel has not thought to leave Alla for Elena, that says a lot about how Elena is seen by other skaters, most of the time talent is not enough.

Speaking of dramas, Kirill is currently in a drama (not big, but still) because of the Spain fed's unsorted criteria for the Olympics.

Well, you're scratching my itch on Pavel Drozd and his partner A. Loboda. Though I doubt Pavel oftenly said as such regarding Elena. I was very impressed again by Pavel's abilities in his senior Grand Prix debut and felt frustrated over his partner's subpar qualities.
 
Well, it is obvious that the deal worked out for him, he will go to the Olympics and he has a partner who is very disciplined and who does not like dramas.

Pavel is very talented and many people can say that Alla is not as talented as Elena, and even so Pavel has not thought to leave Alla for Elena, that says a lot about how Elena is seen by other skaters, most of the time talent is not enough.

You're right, if it was enough I/K would have stayed together. But even when they were skating, they often bombed, barring Sochi. Their "wildness" translated well on to the ice on the chemistry side, but also on the skating side, so they never got that world medal or Euro title. At some point you got to be disciplined. Javi said that the reason he won is because Brian made him disciplined.
 
Last year, H/K got beaten by not one but 2 french teams.

Yes, they did. And they could be again. But Lauriault & Le Gac are an up and down team. Hence they are on my up & down list.

L&L's international scores this season:

157.62 NHK Trophy
149.34 Autumn Classic
147.19 Rostelecom

Kaliszek & Spodyriev, Hurtado & Khaliavin, Agafanova & Ucar, and Nazarova & Nikitin currently have SBs above Lauriault & Le Gac. If H&K muck up their twizzles--the odds are pretty high--they may very well finish behind one or both of the young French teams. That said, I would be the most worried about Nazarova & Nikitin and Kaliszek & Spodyriev. Based both on SB scores and last year's Europeans and Worlds results.
 
Well, it is obvious that the deal worked out for him, he will go to the Olympics and he has a partner who is very disciplined and who does not like dramas.

Pavel is very talented and many people can say that Alla is not as talented as Elena, and even so Pavel has not thought to leave Alla for Elena, that says a lot about how Elena is seen by other skaters, most of the time talent is not enough.

It's funny how people can never see how frustrating it is to be working in an unbalanced partnership. It's the reason why certain Universities have an advanced program so that kids can work with persons of similar capabilities. All through her career EI has been put in a corner waiting for the other partner to step up to her level. All of them, Bukin, Nikita, Ruslan, Anton etc. The reason why she isn't a world champion right now is Nikita's fumbles on the twizzles in 2014. I think if she had a partner like Scott Moir we wouldn't be having this sort of conversation. When Nikita Katsalapov began skating with her he couldn't twizzle, couldn't lift her, his edges were dirty to the point that Tanith Belbin laughed about it at NHK 2010. If you look at video of I/K in 2008, it was pathetic, if you were her mother you would have tried your darndest to find another partner for her. The issue was there wasn't anybody else. I think when Lena began working with Ruslan she thought that Carmen was only the beginning. But when the next season came Ruslan couldn't match her in Frida and everything just went downhill from there onwards. It must have been so mind numbingly frustrating to maintain a certain level of motivation. Honestly this isn't on EI ONLY, the problem was also shared with the coaches that were very taxed to manage the situation. Russia needs to address the situation of inadequate male ice dancers. There seems to be inherent gender related issues with working with a gifted female ice dancer but no issues with it being the other way around. So if she's going to skate with anyone good, what's she to do, downplay her abilities, not express her opinions, massage his ego liberally, and just go with the flow?

Lena is no longer a 16-year-old kid, but a 23-year-old adult. I think she's aware that these are her most productive years ahead of her. If many persons have decided that Katsalapov, given all his character flaws, can get to work for four seasons with a merely adequate partner, but she cannot have the opportunity to actually work with a good partner, that's just a double standard, plain and simple.

But honestly, where is Pavel going to really go with Alla? Especially considering the talents of the juniors coming up. In four years Arina and Maxim could be wiping them off the ice. So if Pavel and EI could make an impression for Russia why not? (And I am not saying that they should). I think it was rumoured that Kiril and Lena had a tryout but it didn't work out. So what I'm saying is if persons are making decisions based on personal differences that could be negotiated to find reasonable compromises for both partners, then Russian ice dance isn't going to go anywhere. Because when I contemplate the I/K of eight years ago, I haven't seen any team yet with any of their potential. Not one.
 
But honestly, where is Pavel going to really go with Alla?

The podium at Russian Nationals.

With the exception of any team involving Elena, what was the last Russian dance team in which the woman wasn't accused of being too weak? Bobrova & Soloviev, Stepanova & Bukin, Sinitsina & Katsalapov. All doing pretty well this season, IMO.
 
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any dance team, not just in Russia, where the woman has not at some point been accused of being the lesser partner. Even V/M when they were younger, many people thought Scott was the star of that pairing.
 
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any dance team, not just in Russia, where the woman has not at some point been accused of being the lesser partner.

Fusar-Poli & Margaglio and Ilinykh & Shibnev?

Though, yes, I'll agree it's a problem and obviously very flawed logic. There are far more ladies in ice dance. The competition is much more ferocious, and therefore, it stands to reason that there are likely more strong female skaters than male skaters in dance. I do think that often a strong male lead helps separate the top teams from the rest. Because those are the teams with both a strong man and a strong female skater.
 
Fusar-Poli & Margaglio and Ilinykh & Shibnev?

Though, yes, I'll agree it's a problem and obviously very flawed logic. There are far more ladies in ice dance. The competition is much more ferocious, and therefore, it stands to reason that there are likely more strong female skaters than male skaters in dance. I do think that often a strong male lead helps separate the top teams from the rest. Because those are the teams with both a strong man and a strong female skater.

Obviously there are examples, but it tends to be the exception that proves the rule. I don't think its necessarily completely untrue, but I do feel like there's a tendency to not acknowledge when skaters improve unless its a very sudden and obvious.

Ultimately, a team is about the partnership, about being greater than the sum of its parts. I will say Loboda/Drozd definitely need to rethink their packaging. This is a case where a young team getting good enough to get outside choreography is not a good thing. Their Giselle was so charming, and Popova/Mozgov have great vehicles this year, but L/D's programs leave a little to be desired.
 
Obviously there are examples, but it tends to be the exception that proves the rule. I don't think its necessarily completely untrue, but I do feel like there's a tendency to not acknowledge when skaters improve unless its a very sudden and obvious.

Ultimately, a team is about the partnership, about being greater than the sum of its parts. I will say Loboda/Drozd definitely need to rethink their packaging. This is a case where a young team getting good enough to get outside choreography is not a good thing. Their Giselle was so charming, and Popova/Mozgov have great vehicles this year, but L/D's programs leave a little to be desired.

You've all made my point for me. There is no room in ice dance for an EI unless she can find a partner to match her from the get go. If however she were a male partner the establishment is going to bend over backwards to facilitate the development of that pair, at whatever the cost, and we've seen that with Bazin, Bukin, Katsalapov, etc for how many years now? Seriously? So the question remains what do you do with that sort of talent.

Which podium will Alla and Pavel get on? Surely you jest. Both P/M and Z/G are head of them in that respect. The kids have to join the line. The only pair fresh from doing well as juniors in Russia to immediately make their world team was I/K. Alla and Pavel are not I/K and their competition now is much more stiff. I know I'm gonna sound like another poster here, but they really need to either get quality coaching to improve or step aside. Their programs are laughable this season. Why have their coaches been able to come up with something competitive for P/M but for them, nonsense? It's almost as though Russian coaches have a difficulty in developing more than one pair at a time. It just makes you wonder, how incompetent they really are. I mean Alla and Pavel have been able to go around the world embarrassing themselves with programs other federations would have squashed from the summer, so the only conclusion I can come to is that ice dance is not really important in the scheme of things for Russia.
 
The podium at Russian Nationals.

A couple who won the FD at Jr Worlds should aim higher than that, I think. Especially considering the current state of ice dance in Russia.

(Unless that was your point all along and I missed it :) )
 
A couple who won the FD at Jr Worlds should aim higher than that, I think. Especially considering the current state of ice dance in Russia.

(Unless that was your point all along and I missed it :) )

True dat. Because with the level of coaching in Russia where else will they go? I mean it's so utterly incomprehensible to see how low Russian ice dance has fallen due to the influence of certain personalities and to some extent nepotism and politics. Its just wow.
 
But it's a cycle also. It rarely happens that one nation is super strong in all four disciplines at the same time. Not so long ago we were all wondering what happened to Russian ladies who dominated the field for a long time. Right now it's the same for US ladies. I bet in a few years there'll be a new generation of superb ice dancers from Russia and ladies in the US. Yes, coaching needs to change, but I'm sure they'll get there.
 
A couple who won the FD at Jr Worlds should aim higher than that, I think.

I think a young couple should aim for their National podium first and then for the next step. (And so should fans. Talking athletes up far beyond their current status is just hype and leads to more criticism and unnecessary disappointment a year down the road). Can I picture Loboda & Drozd on a World podium? I can. This is not true of most of the dance field at Russian Nationals. But I can also picture Stepanova & Bukin, McNamara & Carpenter, and Carreira & Ponomarenko on the World podium one day. And those are just among the young teams that I naturally prefer. For every team that fits my own personal preferences, there are an equal number of quality teams with the same potential that I wouldn't immediately see as having it. Some teams may get there. Some won't. Young dance teams most often have a long journey to make.
 
I think a young couple should aim for their National podium first and then for the next step.

But they are not so young, Alla is 19 yo and Pavel 22yo, at that age Maia and Alex had already won medals in GPs, Worlds and they were competing at olympics and Elena/Nikita were winning a bronze olympic medal. This season has been very rough for Alla and Pavel, and it is almost sure that they won´t be in the national podium this season. I really want to see them doing it well, but I'm having many doubts with Alla. Plus, w..t..f with those programs?

And they are not a random young team, they were silver jr. world medalists, and I think the same about the Parsons.
 
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