2018 Olympic Season: Men's Figure Skating

[da96103]

Thank you very much for these posts, it's really fun (and scary ) to see how much the 'new' quads count is going up! One thing though, because the poor guy is always forgotten: Vladislav Sezganov has landed the 4Lz as well, though I don't remember when exactly he did it (after Mroz, before Jin).

Vladiwhat Sezgawho?

A little googling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Sesganov

Vladislav Dmitriyevich Sezganov or Sesganov (Russian: Владислав Дмитриевич Сезганов; born 3 July 1988) is a Russian figure skater. He is the 2012 Golden Spin of Zagreb and 2011 Gardena Spring Trophy champion.[1]

Sesganov is the first European skater to have landed a quadruple lutz jump in a sanctioned competition.[2] He has also practiced quad lutz - triple toe loop combination.[3]

On August 6, 2014, Sesganov announced his retirement from competitive figure skating

http://nice-baie-des-anges.fr/images/stories/docs-coupe/resultats2013/Nice2013_Men_SP_Scores.pdf

He did a solo 4Lz with a turnout GOE -1.00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAbE4QHXRXw 4Lz starts at 1:04 (Any comments?)

Will credit him in my next quad progress update after Cup of China.

 

[da96103]

actually I agree with Plushenko
Hanyu could just use 4S and 4T, score over 330 and wins this easily, but we all know he will be risking 4lz, 4lo anyway, but I definitely think he should skate 4S/4T in SP at Olympics, score 112-113 and he is well set for free

Yuzuru could win the 2018 OGM with the Chopin/Seimei combo at GPF 2015. Though I think he would be frustrated if he did not make progress in new quadruples seeing Shoma and Nathan debuting 1-2 quads per season. In fact the insecurity and worry could have paralyzed him (figuratively).

 

[da96103]

I do not agree with Plushenko on that point.
Because if both shoma and Nathan do not mistake and SP and FP are aligned, there is a potential exceeding 330.

I think that the best layout for Hanyu,
SP　4Lo、4T-3T
FP　4Lo、4S、4S-3T、4T、4T-1Lo-3S

He will replace one of the 4T's with 4Lz because his two 3A's with +GOE 3.00 are his moneymaker against Nathan 6/7 quads.

Also he needs to keep his options open with an unused 4T for emergency ambulance trip.

 

[da96103]

Yeah, but it was the most d*****s thing JSF ever did, just for the sake saling tickets

Don't worry, Shoma will go to NHK someday..

Shoma can go to NHK in 3 scenarios:

1. Yuzuru retires.
2. Yuzuru 1-3, Shoma 4-6
3. Shoma 1-3, Yuzuru 4-6

Though it is unlikely that Shoma and Yuzuru will ever be in the same GPF event even if 2 and 3 occurs because it would be blocking your own countrymen (for the top 2 skaters of the same country) from obtaining a higher placing to count towards GPF qualification.

 

[HanDomi]

I do not agree with Plushenko on that point.
Because if both shoma and Nathan do not mistake and SP and FP are aligned, there is a potential exceeding 330.

I think that the best layout for Hanyu,
SP　4Lo、4T-3T
FP　4Lo、4S、4S-3T、4T、4T-1Lo-3S

He can score 113 (even more if judges would throw everything at olympics)with 4S in SP. There is only 2 points diffrence between 4S and 4Lo. Not worth to risk it in SP

 

[Marin]

He can score 113 (even more if judges would throw everything at olympics)with 4S in SP. There is only 2 points diffrence between 4S and 4Lo. Not worth to risk it in SP

I think in these years we all got to know Yuzuru well, he will never replace 4lo with 4S in SP. He never goes back, it is just not his way of thinking and the ideal image that he has in mind, at this rate if he does plan any change, having 4lz in sp too is more likely than going back to 4S. Fans and Brian want him to play safe but it is not his style, we all listened his interview when he said he messed ACI LP because he couldn't focus enough on easier layout, he got frustrated and messed entire lp.

I don't think winning nationals, winning GPF will make any huge change.. everything at Olympics will depend on those 2 days, even SP day might not decide the winner.

 

[kiches]

I think the results of Japanese Nationals for Yuzuru and Shoma wouldn't affect much in terms of momentum. Both are pretty much a lock for the team. Besides, by 2017 4CC commentators and others alike were already mistakenly saying Yuzuru had lost to Shoma at Nationals (probably automatically assumed this because they knew Shoma won Nationals). Unless it was a victory similar to Nathan's last year where he landed 5 quads for the first time I don't think whoever is the winner of Japanese Nationals will make as much buzz. I'd say the GPF would be more important.

 

[rabbit1234]

He will replace one of the 4T's with 4Lz because his two 3A's with +GOE 3.00 are his moneymaker against Nathan 6/7 quads.

Also he needs to keep his options open with an unused 4T for emergency ambulance trip.

The weakness of Hanyu is that the rotation is out.
4Lo→2Lo　or　1Lo
4Lz→2Lz　or　1Lz
Even in practice, 4 Lz often does such a way of failure.
His weak point is that a lot of risky jumps to pop are included.
If you fail 4 Lz at the beginning, BV will be 111.26 → 98.26 at that point and will start from a low BV.
Because the second half packs a difficult jump of BV, the layout is difficult to recover.
Also, I think that for 4 Lz, even if it fall, it will greatly affect the performance after that.
Regarding the probability of 4 Lz, since discussion has been made elsewhere, I will not touch it any more.
I think probably 4 Lz will be pulled out at which stage.
I think that his score will be high and stable.
Hanyu himself said that 4 Lz can be stopped at any time.

 

[rabbit1234]

2017-2018 TES

182.04 ＝ SP 59.17 ＋ FP 122.87 ： Shoma UNO 10th Lombardia Trophy 2017
163.44 ＝ SP 57.12 ＋ FP 106.32 ： Shoma UNO ISU GP 2017 Skate Canada International
162.42 ＝ SP 57.57 ＋ FP 104.85 ： Nathan CHEN ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
150.78 ＝ SP 49.24 ＋ FP 101.54 ： Yuzuru HANYU ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
143.31 ＝ SP 48.41 ＋ FP 94.90 ： Max AARON 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
142.64 ＝ SP 47.40 ＋ FP 95.24 ： Nathan CHEN 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
142.46 ＝ SP 42.19 ＋ FP 100.27 ： Mikhail KOLYADA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
141.02 ＝ SP 54.65 ＋ FP 86.37 ： Javier FERNANDEZ 2017 Autumn Classic International
139.15 ＝ SP 48.72 ＋ FP 90.43 ： Boyang JIN Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2017
138.61 ＝ SP 40.64 ＋ FP 97.97 ： Vincent ZHOU Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2017
135.61 ＝ SP 44.66 ＋ FP 90.95 ： Moris KVITELASHVILI ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
134.08 ＝ SP 46.40 ＋ FP 87.68 ： Alexander SAMARIN ISU GP 2017 Skate Canada International
133.66 ＝ SP 50.75 ＋ FP 82.91 ： Nam NGUYEN 2017 Autumn Classic International
132.06 ＝ SP 45.87 ＋ FP 86.19 ： Jorik HENDRICKX ISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2017
131.89 ＝ SP 51.23 ＋ FP 80.66 ： Han YAN 22nd INTERNATIONNAL CUP OF NICE 2017
131.37 ＝ SP 64.17 ＋ FP 67.20 ： Yuzuru HANYU 2017 Autumn Classic International
129.36 ＝ SP 42.90 ＋ FP 86.46 ： Yaroslav PANIOT 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
128.84 ＝ SP 45.41 ＋ FP 83.43 ： Nam NGUYEN ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
128.78 ＝ SP 43.39 ＋ FP 85.39 ： Misha GE ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
128.56 ＝ SP 49.93 ＋ FP 78.63 ： Mikhail KOLYADA Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2017
127.26 ＝ SP 29.00 ＋ FP 98.26 ： Mikhail KOLYADA 25th Ondrej Nepela Trophy
126.41 ＝ SP 45.64 ＋ FP 80.77 ： Jason BROWN ISU GP 2017 Skate Canada International
126.34 ＝ SP 44.41 ＋ FP 81.93 ： Liam FIRUS 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
125.40 ＝ SP 45.25 ＋ FP 80.15 ： Brendan KERRY 10th Lombardia Trophy 2017
124.33 ＝ SP 39.26 ＋ FP 85.07 ： Jason BROWN 10th Lombardia Trophy 2017

2017-2018 PCS

140.99 ＝ SP 46.61 ＋ FP 94.38 ： Yuzuru HANYU ： ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
139.05 ＝ SP 46.55 ＋ FP 92.50 ： Javier FERNANDEZ ： 2017 Autumn Classic International
138.05 ＝ SP 48.55 ＋ FP 89.50 ： Yuzuru HANYU ： 2017 Autumn Classic International
137.80 ＝ SP 45.70 ＋ FP 92.10 ： Shoma UNO ： 10th Lombardia Trophy 2017
137.66 ＝ SP 46.50 ＋ FP 91.16 ： Shoma UNO ： ISU GP 2017 Skate Canada International
137.28 ＝ SP 46.42 ＋ FP 90.86 ： Patrick CHAN ： ISU GP 2017 Skate Canada International
136.55 ＝ SP 44.75 ＋ FP 91.80 ： Jason BROWN ： 10th Lombardia Trophy 2017
135.73 ＝ SP 45.07 ＋ FP 90.66 ： Jason BROWN ： ISU GP 2017 Skate Canada International
132.60 ＝ SP 43.60 ＋ FP 89.00 ： Mikhail KOLYADA ： ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
132.40 ＝ SP 44.40 ＋ FP 88.00 ： Nathan CHEN ： 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
131.37 ＝ SP 42.97 ＋ FP 88.40 ： Nathan CHEN ： ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
128.78 ＝ SP 43.06 ＋ FP 85.72 ： Han YAN ： 22nd INTERNATIONNAL CUP OF NICE 2017
127.09 ＝ SP 41.75 ＋ FP 85.34 ： Adam RIPPON ： Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2017
126.55 ＝ SP 41.63 ＋ FP 84.92 ： Misha GE ： ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
126.30 ＝ SP 42.00 ＋ FP 84.30 ： Keegan MESSING ： 2017 Autumn Classic International
125.55 ＝ SP 39.65 ＋ FP 85.90 ： Mikhail KOLYADA ： 25th Ondrej Nepela Trophy
124.54 ＝ SP 41.18 ＋ FP 83.36 ： Denis TEN ： ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
124.05 ＝ SP 40.95 ＋ FP 83.10 ： Misha GE ： 2017 Autumn Classic International
123.95 ＝ SP 40.05 ＋ FP 83.90 ： Liam FIRUS ： 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
122.12 ＝ SP 40.14 ＋ FP 81.98 ： Denis TEN ： 22nd INTERNATIONNAL CUP OF NICE 2017

In PCS, it is about this difference.
Hanyu used a third-season familiar program to start a good start from the beginning of the season.
Nathan and shoma are trying a new program and will bring up PCS.
In the current rule, the weight of TES is high, so competitors who won in TES will be close to victory.
Hanyu was actually not the top of the competition at TES last, 2016NHK cup finally.
With the average ability of TES, the ability of Nathan and shoma is high.
Because their abilities are close, you will see an exciting battle.

 

[da96103]

I think in these years we all got to know Yuzuru well, he will never replace 4lo with 4S in SP. He never goes back, it is just not his way of thinking and the ideal image that he has in mind, at this rate if he does plan any change, having 4lz in sp too is more likely than going back to 4S. Fans and Brian want him to play safe but it is not his style, we all listened his interview when he said he messed ACI LP because he couldn't focus enough on easier layout, he got frustrated and messed entire lp.

I don't think winning nationals, winning GPF will make any huge change.. everything at Olympics will depend on those 2 days, even SP day might not decide the winner.

Actually he did 4S, 3A, 4T+3T in Autumn Classic this year.

https://skatecanada.ca/results/2017-ACI/CSCAN2017_SeniorMen_SP_Scores.pdf

I am thinking he is practicing the 4Lz in the SP for the time being but would do only one in FS if it is Yuzu-level and Yuzu-consistent.

 

[da96103]

The weakness of Hanyu is that the rotation is out.
4Lo→2Lo　or　1Lo
4Lz→2Lz　or　1Lz
Even in practice, 4 Lz often does such a way of failure.
His weak point is that a lot of risky jumps to pop are included.
If you fail 4 Lz at the beginning, BV will be 111.26 → 98.26 at that point and will start from a low BV.
Because the second half packs a difficult jump of BV, the layout is difficult to recover.
Also, I think that for 4 Lz, even if it fall, it will greatly affect the performance after that.
Regarding the probability of 4 Lz, since discussion has been made elsewhere, I will not touch it any more.
I think probably 4 Lz will be pulled out at which stage.
I think that his score will be high and stable.
Hanyu himself said that 4 Lz can be stopped at any time.

The 4Lz is his new jump.
Last season he landed both 4Lo on one knee during his first outing at Autumn Classic. (correction: 2nd outing at Skate Canada)
These skaters still have 3.5 months to tweak their stuff. Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb!

 

[rabbit1234]

The 4Lz is his new jump.
Last season he landed both 4Lo on one knee during his first outing at Autumn Classic.
These skaters still have 3.5 months to tweak their stuff. Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb!

I have discussed it on other topics, so I will not say any more here.
Please see the topic on Hanyu's 4Lz.

 

[kiches]

The 4Lz is his new jump.
Last season he landed both 4Lo on one knee during his first outing at Autumn Classic.
These skaters still have 3.5 months to tweak their stuff. Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb!

He landed the 4Lo on one foot at Autumn Classic last year in both the short and free (they weren’t the prettiest, but he got positive GOE on both I believe), but a month later at Skate Canada he did the knee landing in both programs. By 4CC the loop was pretty stable.

 

[da96103]

I bet the three coaches: Arutunian, Higuchi and Orser haver this chart with them.

Nathan:
4Lz+3T,
4Lz,
4F+2T+2Lo,
4F,
4Lo,
4S,
4T+2T,
3A

Shoma:
4Lo,
4F+2T,
4F,
4S,
4T,
3A+3T,
3A+1Lo+3F,
3Lo or 3S

Yuzuru:
4Lz,
4Lo,
4S+3T,
4S,
4T+1Lo+3S,
3A+2T,
3A,
3F
(Yuzuru has solo 4T to be used during emergency)

Note: not according to actual sequence during the performance

 

[da96103]

He landed the 4Lo on one foot at Autumn Classic last year in both the short and free (they weren’t the prettiest, but he got positive GOE on both I believe), but a month later at Skate Canada he did the knee landing in both programs. By 4CC the loop was pretty stable.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Actually he did 4S, 3A, 4T+3T in Autumn Classic this year.
https://skatecanada.ca/results/2017-ACI/CSCAN2017_SeniorMen_SP_Scores.pdf
I am thinking he is practicing the 4Lz in the SP for the time being but would do only one in FS if it is Yuzu-level and Yuzu-consistent.

Because he was injured so Brian had him pull back; it's not the usual state of things, and knock on wood if healthy, he won't go backwards, he'll only go up. It's just his mentality.
He might not wait for the Lz to be up to his standards though, it all depends on how the 4Lo 'behaves'. If the Lo is behaving, then I agree he'd only replace it with the Lz if the Lz can be at 'Yuzu-level'.

 

[rabbit1234]

2017-2018

319.84 Shoma UNO 10th Lombardia Trophy 2017
301.10 Shoma UNO ISU GP 2017 Skate Canada International

293.79 Nathan CHEN ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
290.77 Yuzuru HANYU ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017

279.38 Mikhail KOLYADA ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
279.07 Javier FERNANDEZ 2017 Autumn Classic International
275.04 Nathan CHEN 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
271.06 Mikhail KOLYADA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017

268.24 Yuzuru HANYU 2017 Autumn Classic International
264.48 Boyang JIN ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
261.56 Max AARON 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
261.14 Jason BROWN ISU GP 2017 Skate Canada International

259.88 Jason BROWN 10th Lombardia Trophy 2017
259.69 Max AARON ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
259.67 Han YAN 22nd INTERNATIONNAL CUP OF NICE 2017
256.66 Vincent ZHOU ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
255.33 Misha GE ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
254.61 Han YAN ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
253.06 Jorik HENDRICKX ISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2017
253.06 Javier FERNANDEZ ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
252.60 Boyang JIN Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2017
250.26 Moris KVITELASHVILI ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
250.06 Alexander SAMARIN ISU GP 2017 Skate Canada International
250.01 Vincent ZHOU Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2017

249.88 Adam RIPPON Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2017
248.50 Mikhail KOLYADA Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2017
248.30 Keegan MESSING 2017 Autumn Classic International
248.29 Liam FIRUS 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
247.81 Mikhail KOLYADA 25th Ondrej Nepela Trophy
247.17 Keiji TANAKA ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
246.19 Misha GE 2017 Autumn Classic International
245.70 Patrick CHAN ISU GP 2017 Skate Canada International
245.21 Nam NGUYEN 2017 Autumn Classic International


The score of KOLYADA is listed at the top.
It seems that members of GPF will also change from last season.
Next week, NHK Cup is paying attention to whether Hanyu will score more than 300 points.

 

[Ender]

Will the tech panel at CoC will be at Olympic? https://twitter.com/LazyLys/status/926937322406531074
I have been asking people around and none replied.

 

[rabbit1234]

2017-2018　　BV

159.40 ＝ SP 50.31 ＋ FP 109.09 ： Shoma UNO 10th Lombardia Trophy 2017
153.56 ＝ SP 49.29 ＋ FP 104.27 ： Vincent ZHOU ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
149.85 ＝ SP 53.98 ＋ FP 95.87 ： Nathan CHEN ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
148.30 ＝ SP 50.73 ＋ FP 97.57 ： Boyang JIN ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
147.90 ＝ SP 47.41 ＋ FP 100.49 ： Shoma UNO ISU GP 2017 Skate Canada International
141.02 ＝ SP 45.19 ＋ FP 95.83 ： Vincent ZHOU Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2017
139.34 ＝ SP 47.80 ＋ FP 91.54 ： Boyang JIN Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2017
138.49 ＝ SP 39.25 ＋ FP 99.24 ： Mikhail KOLYADA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
136.13 ＝ SP 47.05 ＋ FP 89.08 ： Max AARON 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
135.38 ＝ SP 46.91 ＋ FP 88.47 ： Yuzuru HANYU ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
134.33 ＝ SP 44.15 ＋ FP 90.18 ： Max AARON ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
131.45 ＝ SP 44.83 ＋ FP 86.62 ： Moris KVITELASHVILI ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
131.42 ＝ SP 49.95 ＋ FP 81.47 ： Mikhail KOLYADA ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
130.76 ＝ SP 41.60 ＋ FP 89.16 ： Yaroslav PANIOT 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
129.54 ＝ SP 47.05 ＋ FP 82.49 ： Nam NGUYEN ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
127.98 ＝ SP 47.29 ＋ FP 80.69 ： Alexander SAMARIN ISU GP 2017 Skate Canada International
127.52 ＝ SP 46.55 ＋ FP 80.97 ： Nam NGUYEN 2017 Autumn Classic International
125.38 ＝ SP 31.00 ＋ FP 94.38 ： Mikhail KOLYADA 25th Ondrej Nepela Trophy
124.82 ＝ SP 42.66 ＋ FP 82.16 ： Nathan CHEN 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
124.04 ＝ SP 43.15 ＋ FP 80.89 ： Dmitri ALIEV ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017
122.96 ＝ SP 37.70 ＋ FP 85.26 ： Yaroslav PANIOT ISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2017
122.45 ＝ SP 39.80 ＋ FP 82.65 ： Kevin REYNOLDS ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
122.02 ＝ SP 44.45 ＋ FP 77.57 ： Brendan KERRY 10th Lombardia Trophy 2017
120.65 ＝ SP 43.75 ＋ FP 76.90 ： Brendan KERRY 25th Ondrej Nepela Trophy
120.50 ＝ SP 41.93 ＋ FP 78.57 ： Liam FIRUS 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
120.25 ＝ SP 42.95 ＋ FP 77.30 ： Mikhail KOLYADA Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2017
119.04 ＝ SP 44.75 ＋ FP 74.29 ： Javier FERNANDEZ 2017 Autumn Classic International
118.92 ＝ SP 40.43 ＋ FP 78.49 ： Han YAN ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
117.54 ＝ SP 40.63 ＋ FP 76.91 ： Keegan MESSING 2017 Autumn Classic International
117.44 ＝ SP 39.52 ＋ FP 77.92 ： Kazuki TOMONO 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
116.91 ＝ SP 42.55 ＋ FP 74.36 ： Sergei VORONOV 25th Ondrej Nepela Trophy
116.67 ＝ SP 36.70 ＋ FP 79.97 ： Adam RIPPON Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2017
114.89 ＝ SP 43.33 ＋ FP 71.56 ： Han YAN 22nd INTERNATIONNAL CUP OF NICE 2017
114.81 ＝ SP 39.90 ＋ FP 74.91 ： Michal BREZINA ISU GP 2017 Skate Canada International
114.37 ＝ SP 41.96 ＋ FP 72.41 ： Andrei LAZUKIN Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2017
114.21 ＝ SP 41.55 ＋ FP 72.66 ： Keiji TANAKA ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017
113.89 ＝ SP 43.19 ＋ FP 70.70 ： Daniel SAMOHIN 2017 US International Figure Skating Classic
113.75 ＝ SP 39.04 ＋ FP 74.71 ： Jorik HENDRICKX ISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2017

Vincent ZHOU is on the top.

 

[HanDomi]

Will the tech panel at CoC will be at Olympic? https://twitter.com/LazyLys/status/926937322406531074
I have been asking people around and none replied.

This :agree:
They perfectly explain why that there should be clear and strict judging on quads and "quads".