Now these are quarantine dancing classes we deserve in these hard times! :agree:
https://www.tiktok.com/@lizanugumanova/video/6815262652365835525
https://www.tiktok.com/@lizanugumanova/video/6815262652365835525
2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
I think the article by Alexander Vedenin at page 44 is really great.
topic: I am really loving this figure skating exercise video with Stéphane Lambiel and Deniss VasiljevsLive now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXgpPTspFu4&feature=push-lsb&attr_tag=64O5kiRjSOGpm8f8:6
What you saw is the light version of his mind-blowing "Open Letter to ISU" https://kontinentusa.com/aleksandr-vedenin-daite-mesto-tem-kto-povedet-razvitie-nashego-sporta/
Can anybody translate it to English?
I prefer the light one.Wow. What an arsenal of guns against ISU and RusFed in advocacy of these two Russian senior ladies who land quads. If only they need such a support
Wow. What an arsenal of guns against ISU and RusFed in advocacy of these two Russian senior ladies who land quads. If only they need such a support
I think it's not only about two skaters with quads.
Wow. What an arsenal of guns against ISU and RusFed in advocacy of these two Russian senior ladies who land quads. If only they need such a support
I mean he's not wrong (just the rant seems a bit excessive):
ISU says no quads in the short cause it's to dangerous and yet you allow it in the free so either none or both, same with juniors honestly, allow everything in the short. Trusova should be able to do her quads in the short, as well as Liu should be able to land the 3A as her axel jump in the short and not only in combination.
The fact that the so called "Technical Program" has such restrictions on the technical side is such a contraddiction.
Then i'm also pro "only real seniors in seniors" which means post puberty is seniors, which for most people ends around the age of 17-18. Beware cause that would change a lot of things on the development of quads.
So in the end yes the rant is fair, i think eventually ISU will realize, at the same time i don't think Russia is all that hurted by this, it could get worse, if it turns out none of these girls can land their quads post puberty.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2019
regarding to quads in SP.
I think ISU needs to either remove requirement to do an Axel in SP, Allow quads or ban triple Axel with it.
Right now, mathematically speaking, triple Axel is the most profitable jump to learn, which makes no sense at all.
regarding to Bringing back popularity.
FS is very popular in Russia and Japan.
To make it Popular in USA/CAN/EU you need American/Canadian/European superstar, at least at the level of Kostner, preferable at the level of Zagitova. No Rule change will bring Americans and Europeans back to FS, American champions will. Ironically, America's best chance to make FS mainstream again, Alisa Liu, wont profit from any Age or Technical content restrictions.
Now If ISU is planning to make skaters of Bradie Tennel's or Mariah Bell's caliber into internationally decorated champions, with all due respect, I doubt anybody, including mentioned skaters themselves, needs that.
I think ISU needs to either remove requirement to do an Axel in SP, Allow quads or ban triple Axel with it.
Right now, mathematically speaking, triple Axel is the most profitable jump to learn, which makes no sense at all.
regarding to Bringing back popularity.
FS is very popular in Russia and Japan.
To make it Popular in USA/CAN/EU you need American/Canadian/European superstar, at least at the level of Kostner, preferable at the level of Zagitova. No Rule change will bring Americans and Europeans back to FS, American champions will. Ironically, America's best chance to make FS mainstream again, Alisa Liu, wont profit from any Age or Technical content restrictions.
Now If ISU is planning to make skaters of Bradie Tennel's or Mariah Bell's caliber into internationally decorated champions, with all due respect, I doubt anybody, including mentioned skaters themselves, needs that.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2019
Wow. What an arsenal of guns against ISU and RusFed in advocacy of these two Russian senior ladies who land quads. If only they need such a support
considering amount of negativity online about one of these senior ladies with quads, especially on English language websites,yeah, I think they indeed need some support
considering amount of negativity online about one of these senior ladies with quads, especially on English language websites,yeah, I think they indeed need some support
But that wasn't thought as a support against web haters, was it? If you wish ISU or Lakernik to change rules, do you think the best way to achieve your goal is to insult them?
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
Any proposals and voting over change of rules will most likely come down to “us vs. them” or more concrete Russia vs The World.
If a kind of compromise will be achieved like minimum age at 17 and a small concession of quads being allowed in the short program, Russia’s powerful and systematic training programs still have the best prospects of bending the rules to their advantage. Do you really think #TeamTutberidzeForProgress or even #TeamDavydovCSKA are going to leave it be? They probably love the challenge.
It’s up to the rest of the world to step up their game and ignore Koncerned Kira Korpi’s fake concerns and unproven claims.
Sports at the highest level never has been and never will be without side effects.
Unless of course this rest of the world (and Plyushchenko c.s.) want to strip female figure skating of it’s athletic and sporting elements only just recently acquired when Zagitova entered the ice and TShchK took the world by storm, and turn it back into pretty figures at a leisurely pace or into commercial entertainment for adults?
I doubt this will have much appeal on young girls who want to excel in sports in the small timeframe they actually -are- better than boys, much like in gymnastics.
In which way and direction ISU really wants to advance this branch of ice sport?
If a kind of compromise will be achieved like minimum age at 17 and a small concession of quads being allowed in the short program, Russia’s powerful and systematic training programs still have the best prospects of bending the rules to their advantage. Do you really think #TeamTutberidzeForProgress or even #TeamDavydovCSKA are going to leave it be? They probably love the challenge.
It’s up to the rest of the world to step up their game and ignore Koncerned Kira Korpi’s fake concerns and unproven claims.
Sports at the highest level never has been and never will be without side effects.
Unless of course this rest of the world (and Plyushchenko c.s.) want to strip female figure skating of it’s athletic and sporting elements only just recently acquired when Zagitova entered the ice and TShchK took the world by storm, and turn it back into pretty figures at a leisurely pace or into commercial entertainment for adults?
I doubt this will have much appeal on young girls who want to excel in sports in the small timeframe they actually -are- better than boys, much like in gymnastics.
In which way and direction ISU really wants to advance this branch of ice sport?
Oh no for sure, i think they will adapt, and that's exciting to see how the system will change to keep that dominance, cause if they manage to apply this to a post puberty skater, then you may see one of their skaters keep winning for like 5-6 years instead of 1-2.
I think the minimum age will help bringing a fair competition, cause in many western countries it's impossible to raise skaters at that early age as Russia does, they become seniors later because there is no other way; and it will help popularity, cause with the current systems we're more and more seeing champions that come and go.
Historically popularity of Figure Skating (as many other sports) have always relied on iconic champions even the casual fan knows, and that's because they usually see them competing and dominating for many years, sometimes even at multiple Olympics. Think about Evgeni Plushenko, Michelle Kwan, Carolina Kostner, Patrick Chan, Mao Asada, Yuzuru Hanyu. Their popularity grew as they kept winning, as they keep doing shows, etc.
It's not 100% guaranteed that the minimum age will completely fix it (i think it could if you raise the age to 18 instead of 17) but there are more chances it might because if the technique survives the puberty, you could keep it even for 5-10 years.
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2018
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Are you serious? Try to remove everyone under the age of 18 from the top list right now. And is this your ideal FS world?
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
There is no proof the current loads on young skaters, and their presumed side effects, are sustainable over the career span you suggest, by fully grown, fully consenting adult skaters.
Tuktamysheva for instance, doesn’t seem even half as conditioned as any of The Aces. I doubt any of the current over 20’s will survive for a week in Khrustalniy.
Also, I don’t think ‘amateur’ or perhaps better said ‘part time’ programs, really stand a chance against full time, professional programs from federations like Russia.
Provided of course, FFKKR wants to support and sustain student age athletes in the same way they do support pupil age athletes in the present state schools of the Olympic Reserve for Children and Youths. Or even post graduation adults who want to start family live etcetera. These will have completely different financial demands, and perhaps don’t even want to be servants of state in the position of subordinate.
If Plyushchenko gets his way, the state schools where everybody has equal chances and hard work and dedication pays off, will be abolished in favour of commercial academies where only money rules, much like in the West.
And we’ll get all kinds of commercial tournaments, like in many professional sports.
Any proposals to change the sport will have to carefully considered if women’s figure skating is to remain a sport.
And because of gender equality, men’s figure skating must change likewise.
Tuktamysheva for instance, doesn’t seem even half as conditioned as any of The Aces. I doubt any of the current over 20’s will survive for a week in Khrustalniy.
Also, I don’t think ‘amateur’ or perhaps better said ‘part time’ programs, really stand a chance against full time, professional programs from federations like Russia.
Provided of course, FFKKR wants to support and sustain student age athletes in the same way they do support pupil age athletes in the present state schools of the Olympic Reserve for Children and Youths. Or even post graduation adults who want to start family live etcetera. These will have completely different financial demands, and perhaps don’t even want to be servants of state in the position of subordinate.
If Plyushchenko gets his way, the state schools where everybody has equal chances and hard work and dedication pays off, will be abolished in favour of commercial academies where only money rules, much like in the West.
And we’ll get all kinds of commercial tournaments, like in many professional sports.
Any proposals to change the sport will have to carefully considered if women’s figure skating is to remain a sport.
And because of gender equality, men’s figure skating must change likewise.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2020
One could also introduce the cosmic level for the 15-17 year olds between the junior level and the senior Level.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
An excellent idea in theory, but how sustainable will this be in practice, where most clubs, programs and federations are strapped for cash? Pre-novice (<11), novice (11-12), junior (13-14), medior (15-17) and senior (18 and above) looks ideal on paper, but competitive circuits have to be arranged, sponsors found, an advance in age and to the next level should be seamless. Which means training loads won’t be any less due to the need to learn new elements required in the next level. Or not, ultra-si will remain a pretty exclusive domain I am inclined to think.
Only large, well financed and systematically organised programs, well organised and financed, like in Russia allow for this layered division and perpetual growth in level.
And even then, the chance of 'earning a return on investment' is pretty slim, with only so few lucrative post competition deals available. It remains entirely to be seen wether a commercially viable and sustainable cirquit is possible with after adult skaters skated competitively till their mid twenties or later.
I'll pay for a competition with the level and excitement provided by those Awesome And Amazing Aces, and pass by any 'adult skating shows' with stars past their peak.
Only large, well financed and systematically organised programs, well organised and financed, like in Russia allow for this layered division and perpetual growth in level.
And even then, the chance of 'earning a return on investment' is pretty slim, with only so few lucrative post competition deals available. It remains entirely to be seen wether a commercially viable and sustainable cirquit is possible with after adult skaters skated competitively till their mid twenties or later.
I'll pay for a competition with the level and excitement provided by those Awesome And Amazing Aces, and pass by any 'adult skating shows' with stars past their peak.
I don't think that's a fair comparison cause what you're seeing right now is the result of the current rules.
Because you turn juniors at the age of 13 and seniors at 15, in Russia they start working on quads and 3A at the age of 11-12, basically immediately after you get the 3-3.
If you don't turn seniors until age 18, first of all Khrustalny would start to accept skaters only later, and they'd start working on quads later too, like by the age of 15 so you have them ready and consistent 3 years later.
It's not a matter of ideal FS, it's just the current definition of seniors for FS doesn't make any sense anymore: one thing is to act like a senior (and i'd say Sambo70 girls all skate like seniors already) the other is to be an actual grown up person which is completely different both mentally and physically.
Right now in Ladies FS it's almost like novices are the new juniors, juniors are the new seniors and the actual seniors are like adult skating, almost amateur level.
I don't know what countries becuse even in USA or Canada they usually start at the same age (4-5), the same with most european countries I'm aware of, incl. Italy, Austria and my own, not to speak about Japan and South Korea, but if there are such, it's the cause of those countries, not the international rules.
And I simply don't think there is anything requiring to be fixed now. The only thing that was wrong was when the medals were split between someone's "long-term queens" before the competition has even started and that times are gone, thanks Darwin.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2019
adapt to what ?
Apply what exactly ?
Last year, TT skater won a world championship while arguably being in the middle of the puberty.
This year, same skater, despite obviously spending less time to train for competitions kept all her jumps and if had she bothered to get to her peak shape, could easily have been favorite to win medal.
Eteri isn't going to train skaters like it's 2000s, even if they set age limit at 30
what makes it so?
and in many countries it's impossible to raise skater at all,now what?
name the names.
I have feeling that if we carefully look at their medals, there may be something what makes them different from 'champions that come and go'
and Karolina Costner has never been dominant.
it wont.
Sponsors throwing tons of money to skaters for staying competitive will.
problem isn't technique surviving the sport, problem is motivation to go through hellish training regiment everyday for relatively little money doesn't survive winning the most prestigious competition you can win.
Michele Kwan competed at 3 olympics, Lipinski, Hughes and Arakawa won them and for some reason, all 3 combine for total one season after their Olympic Triumph,Eteri's first internationally acclaimed athlete had senior debut in 2012, so it's probably not her fault
