2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

I've figured out. Still, I can't avoid comparison with e.g. Alina-Sasha interraction at JO with this. I know there is difference being from one team and from one team Europe on one side and not being one team on the other, yet some more respect towards the winner would suit the older competitors.

Agreed.

Rather in the nature of some of the humans. As I've already said, just compare such behaviour with Alina. She can behave like an adult with dignity. Not only when it doesn't matter who had higher score like at JO, but also when she was beaten last season sometimes, you've never seen something like that from her. And from other Eteri's girls as well, you can see that they all show respect towards their competitors. Also japanese ladies are always very appreciative and warm towards others. I understand some frustration from Liza's side, but that's not the reason why to behave like an old hand towards a rookie.



Was there a season when Alina wasn't sentenced to lose before the real comptition has even started?
2016/2017 - This will be a junior season of Marin Honda.
2017/2018 - This will be an olympic season of Evgenia Medvedeva
2018/2019 - Rika will be "tripleaxelling" her way to all medals.
Well, well.

Yes Alina and Eteri girls are in a class by themselves when it comes to class. Their behavior towards others is always top notch and you never hear them saying negatory word about anyone. They should be a great example for all the up and coming girls on the Russian figure skating scene and everywhere else for that matter.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Who do you think will get the remaining Challenger spots? I think Stasya is very likely to get one. I don't know what to think of the chances of the likes of Nugymanova/Tarakanova/Gubanova/Sakhanovich/Gulyakova/Talalaikina/Leonova. Some of them may get a spot but not all (a pity).

What are the remaining challenger spots?

 

[Scott512]

And, at this point, all three have won their events. All three have had fantastic senior debuts. Any one of them is capable of beating the other two on any given day. It really is a unique situation.

It is a unique situation and an unbelievable situation and an historic situation to be honest!

 

[Jontor]

What are the remaining challenger spots?

There is Warzaw Cup and Golden Spin left. So Russia can use 6 spots there.

There is also Ice Star next week (only Samodurova will be there) and Asian Open (no Russians) where they can still add a late entry, but that's unlikely.

 

[DenissVFan]

What are the remaining challenger spots?

3 at Warsaw Cup and 3 at Golden Spin of Zagreb. That's 6, provided that RusFed actually fills them, which we can't take for granted.

 

[macy]

I am not excusing Liza behaviour; not even sure if it is all that bad. But it is pretty tough in Russia right now that a former world champion with three triple axels isn't competitive in her own country. Hopefully this will motivate her to improve her programs and content, edge on the flip etc. Also she needs to sell herself - hair, costumes.

to be completely honest, and this might sound harsh to some, Liza and Mishin knew exactly what and who was coming this season, and they had more than enough time to prepare. They knew about Sasha and Anna's quads and the potential of a 3A from Aliona. These girls have been blazing pathways and changing ladies figure skating for a long time now. And i blame this mostly on Mishin since he is the coach- he should have taken the initiative to start a year ago or even before that to prepare Liza. There really isn't much of an excuse for what is happening now. This is no surprise, and i don't understand why both of them think only 3A's would hold up against them. and because of this, i really don't think much of Mishin anymore- TBH in this sense he has already failed Liza.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

I’m so happy to see Lena doing this. Her and Denis were great friends, I’m sure Denis’s mom asked Elena for that. Great honor and a new experience for her to work as a choreographer.

Yesss! I watched the closing performance and I thought it was really well choreographed. I believe Lena has a bright future ahead in choreo,,,,probably only a matter of time until we see skaters skating to her choreography in comps (or so I hope)

 

[Edwin]

to be completely honest, and this might sound harsh to some, Liza and Mishin knew exactly what and who was coming this season, and they had more than enough time to prepare. They knew about Sasha and Anna's quads and the potential of a 3A from Aliona. These girls have been blazing pathways and changing ladies figure skating for a long time now. And i blame this mostly on Mishin since he is the coach- he should have taken the initiative to start a year ago or even before that to prepare Liza. There really isn't much of an excuse for what is happening now. This is no surprise, and i don't understand why both of them think only 3A's would hold up against them. and because of this, i really don't think much of Mishin anymore- TBH in this sense he has already failed Liza.

Agreed, and this attitude already showed in Open Test Skates, 4A came out storming, Medvyedeva and Konstantinova knew what was at stake for them, while Mishin's ... It seemed to me he sort of relies on his wisdom and reputation, but IMO the first is clearly failing him right now, much to the detriment of Samodurova and Tuktamysheva. Tuktamysheva should know best for herself right now, Samodurova is in need of some pretty good guidance and wholehearted coaching for her to be able to still make something out of her season.

We'll see come the Grand Prix events what Mishin still amounts to as a 'once coach to some of the greatest ever skaters'. Isn't there anybody in Sankt Peterburg challenging his position, demanding for chance and new elan, energy and perspectives?

 

[Fluture]

What confuses me mostly about Mishin is his lack of willingness to adapt. This system isn‘t even new anymore, it‘s been around for many years. Correct me if I‘m wrong but I read somewhere that after the Russian Cup Event in the K&C, Mishin said something along the lines of: “Now we can go back to the old music/we could shorten the step sequence“ to which Liza replied: ”No we could not.“ To me it seems like Liza is willing to make changes. Her new SP is great, something new for her and she‘s been working on her presentation. And she did try to optimize her jump layout after Lombardia. 3Lz+2A seq was gone and instead she attempted what clearly should have been 2A+Eu+3S and 3Lz+3T. But it‘s very hard to constantly have to try to persuade your coach if he isn‘t willing to accept that the system is what it is and if you want to win, you‘ll have to construct your programs a certain way. I‘ll say it honestly, I‘m not a fan of Liza‘s skating, never have been. But to me it‘s clear that she‘s a real talent and I wish someone would step in and help her improve some of the areas Mishin refuses to look at. I give Mishin a lot of credit, he stuck around with Liza for many years, supported her through her hardships. That‘s important. But now, it feels like they‘re stagnating significantly in certain areas if 3 3As are not enough to come even close to winning against an (admittedly very special) new senior.

Liza‘s scores are still competitive, that‘s for sure. If she had landed her new layout with those backloaded combos, she would have got about 10-11 points more instantly. That would have put her at about 223. She can medal or maybe with luck even win her GP assignments, she can go to the GPF. But Worlds? She has many of the technical goods, she‘s a gorgeous jumper. But she will need PCS too and spins and steps. It‘s not like she‘s a lost cause. Lol, obviously not, given how she skates and jumps and scores. But she could be so much more and that‘s frustrating.

 

[[email protected]]

to be completely honest, and this might sound harsh to some, Liza and Mishin knew exactly what and who was coming this season, and they had more than enough time to prepare. They knew about Sasha and Anna's quads and the potential of a 3A from Aliona. These girls have been blazing pathways and changing ladies figure skating for a long time now. And i blame this mostly on Mishin since he is the coach- he should have taken the initiative to start a year ago or even before that to prepare Liza. There really isn't much of an excuse for what is happening now. This is no surprise, and i don't understand why both of them think only 3A's would hold up against them. and because of this, i really don't think much of Mishin anymore- TBH in this sense he has already failed Liza.

Well, Liza tremendously improved her 3A. She was never close to 3 clean jumps - now she handles them. Last season she ended up with 230 range score at WTT. Surely, they thought that everything was under control and are very perplexed about the scores Liza receives now.

 

[Sugar Coated]

I was willing to defend Liza after the short program K+C. It’s hard to hide emotions in this context and she was clearly frustrated with the score. Her expression came off as flippant but nothing outright inappropriate.

The video of her reaction at the ceremony does bother me. She does seem to be excluding Alena. Maybe it’s harder to see if you weren’t ever a teenage or young girl, but this is how mean girl behavior looks. The photos on ice with her female teammate, excluding alena (there was no need to take a photo during the ceremony, wait until it’s over) and just way she seems to be avoiding her at all costs and actively shunning her looks really bad. I don’t want to make too much of this. But she should know that the media is going to be hypercritical of her right now and that everyone is watching. I understand how hard it must be for her to see a new generation come up and surpass her after all the hard work and dedication. But it’s not Alena’s “fault” and she should be at least friendly to her,

 

[andromache]

Mishin has been unable to adapt to IJS. That's just how it is. But as talented as Liza is, at this point, I wonder if she would struggle if she tried to completely change her approach. Between her seasons of success, she has had seasons where she hasn't been a threat at all, not making GPF, coming in 7th/8th at Nationals, etc., and that was when the ladies' was not as deep as it is now. Now that she is skating great again, I can understand that it would be scary to make any drastic changes and risk becoming inconsistent again. The trajectory of her career has been so strange compared to the other Russian ladies, with many ups and downs, and it's difficult to imagine any coach other than Mishin continuing to support her through the lows of her career.

Maybe this is Liza's ceiling? It might be taking all of her effort + talent to be doing exactly what she is now, and that adding more choreo, spending more time on levels, skating skills, etc., will make her jumps suffer? Yes, I think Mishin is definitely partially to blame, but I also think that Liza's most formative years as a skater took place in a different era, and it is much more difficult to adapt when you're 22 compared to when you're 15. And unfortunately, Liza spent the majority of her senior seasons falling behind + inconsistency on the jumps, which meant she had to focus all of her energy on the jumps instead of on improving other aspects of her skating.

 

[macy]

has Liza stated how much longer she plans to compete? is she staying through 2022?

i think that is/will be a big factor in what she plans to do with the rest of her time, and if she ever considers a new coach...which i think is what is needed if she's really serious about being a contender.

 

[nussnacker]

has Liza stated how much longer she plans to compete? is she staying through 2022?

i think that is/will be a big factor in what she plans to do with the rest of her time, and if she ever considers a new coach...which i think is what is needed if she's really serious about being a contender.

She said something about that she learned/did something only “towards the end of her career”, which had a lot of people asking her to continue. Alyona Savchenko commented that it’s only the beginning of her career.
But I believe Liza wants to try to qualify for Beijing. She has all the titles except she has never been to Olympics, and I think she’s willing to give it a try.

 

[Watch]

has Liza stated how much longer she plans to compete? is she staying through 2022?

i think that is/will be a big factor in what she plans to do with the rest of her time, and if she ever considers a new coach...which i think is what is needed if she's really serious about being a contender.

I don't believe she said anything definitive on that matter, but it seems likely that she wants to have a final go for the Olympics.

 

[nussnacker]

Anna trying 4T and 3A in her new channel 1 interview. Exciting i have a feeling she’ll nail both, 3A didn’t look like it used a lot of harness support.

 

[LRK]

I think she said in an interview that she was taking it a season at a time? Of course, this was a while ago, and her goals may have changed since.

I really don't see her leaving Mishin.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmGeD9TFVPX/

"I'm so grateful to fate, because it gifted to me Alexei Nikolayevich. My victories and titles are his talent as teacher and coach. He've helped to me battle through everything: tears, desperation, pain, fear, but he always gives me the motivation, inspiration and courage. Everytime when I'm step on ice, I'm smiling, because I know - he believes in me. "


Perhaps she could work with someone during the summer on the areas in which she is weak, here she speaks about her work with Shae-Lynn:

https://fs-gossips.com/elizaveta-tu...kating-its-like-changing-your-whole-wardrobe/

Was this step forward in your choreographic development hard?

– Not easy, let’s say so. Switching from comfortable movements and steps to something completely new and unusual is always difficult. Especially when you have to combine new choreography with complex technical elements, without showing that somewhere it’s uncomfortable or hard for you. Although in general, everything wasn’t so scary. It just took a while.

In the speech of any person there are so-called parasite words. Are there any “parasite” moves in figure skating that have been memorized for years on a subconscious level which a skater can’t get rid of?

– I think yes. I can’t say that some of my motor habits greatly interfered with my work with Shae-Lynn, but from the very beginning I gave myself a task to work exactly as the choreographer tells me, not to allow myself any initiative in the movements. This constant control turned out to be one of the most difficult moments for me. I dis steps, transitions as Shae-Lynn sees them, not allowing either to put the second leg, or to relax my hands. Bourne clearly explains what she wants to see and the work lasts until the result begins to closely correspond to the plan. For the sake of this choreography, I flew to Shae-Lynn in Charleston, and in five days we did the program. Now we continue to skate it, trying keep the original choreo.

Do you need the choreographer to be able to adjust his choreo throughout the season?

– One or another choreographer is always with me, we have our own choreographer Tatiana Nikolaevna Prokofieva who is constantly polishing the program and refreshing it. And Shae-Lynn herself only welcomes when I contact her on Facetime and show how I skate.

Retraining choreographic skills can be compared to how you retrain some technical points?

– I haven’t been doing any retraining of technique for so long that I can hardly answer you this question.

---

I also found it encouraging when someone upthread noted that in the Cup of St Petersburg free skate kiss & cry, when Mishin said they should shorten the step sequence, Liza replied that they should not. Liza certainly has her weak areas, but it is not fair to say that she has done "nothing" or "zero" to improve herself. Perhaps what she has done has not been "enough", but that is not the same as "nothing" or "zero".

 

[SXTN]

Liza is a tragic figure and I feel sorry for her. You can tell that she puts so much more energy and work into performance, choreo and transitions this year but it's just not paying off if other skaters are simply better. Season after season Liza has made improvements: Less crossovers, more transitions into the jumps, harder combos, very consistent 3A and optimized BV. But the progress is too slow if you compete against someone like Alena who flies across the ice, learns 3A out of steps in a few weeks, hits consistent level 4's and performs high quality 3-3's with ease and quality. One thing Liza has to understand: She does not consistently receive those low marks and GOE because judges see no improvements, she gets those marks because compared to other skaters she is still inferior in most departments. Liza catches up too slowly.

I liked Liza's sp. She had great energy and the choreography was nice too by her standards. But Alena just had the whole package.

 

[siela]

To change the topic to Russian ladies skating and skating related things two news about future prospects in Russian skating: Elena Kostyleva (2011) has moved to Tutberidze team in the offseason. I am very curious to see her this year. She was the best 6 year old skater I have ever seen and, hopefully, that will not change and she will remain the best eight year old skater I have ever seen
Taisia Korobitsina (2010) is competing in her first competition of the season these days and she has landed fully rotated 3Lz and 3F in the SP - both new jumps for her :luv17:. No video, unfortunately. With that she has established herself as the strongest skater from 2010 (at least for the moment). It would be really cool to have a top skater not from Moscow or St. Petersburg, so I really hope for her success this year.

 

[moriel]

Liza is a tragic figure and I feel sorry for her. You can tell that she puts so much more energy and work into performance, choreo and transitions this year but it's just not paying off if other skaters are simply better. Season after season Liza has made improvements: Less crossovers, more transitions into the jumps, harder combos, very consistent 3A and optimized BV. But the progress is too slow if you compete against someone like Alena who flies across the ice, learns 3A out of steps in a few weeks, hits consistent level 4's and performs high quality 3-3's with ease and quality. One thing Liza has to understand: She does not consistently receive those low marks and GOE because judges see no improvements, she gets those marks because compared to other skaters she is still inferior in most departments. Liza catches up too slowly.

I liked Liza's sp. She had great energy and the choreography was nice too by her standards. But Alena just had the whole package.

Im sort of upset about Liza being left out of worlds last year, tbh.
Specially with 3A turning senior this season (and likely buring her chances of worlds/euros), I really wish that rusfed gave her a chance when they could =(