2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[moonvine]

I was thinking the same thing; not much time. I'm sorry to dissent but she does not look good at this point. I really hope that stamina issue can be resolved as I would love her to be able to meet the minimum and make it to Nats.

I thought she looked great. Then again, my opinions often differ.

 

[skylark]

OT, and not to denigrate what Gracie is doing, but pairs is usually considered the hardest discipline. And Deanna came back after 16 years.

Yes! that's what I was thinking. But it is interesting to bring up Deanna's comeback in comparison to Gracie's. It's truly remarkable, what Deanna did, and seeing Gracie's journey makes Deanna's accomplishment even more amazing.

Re Gracie’s stamina, she’s pretty much got to be able to sustain something close to her maximum heart rate for 4 minutes. You can’t train for that by doing anything other than running your program. I do wonder how many run throughs she had before yesterday.

Regarding the minimum TES, there is a very real possibility she won’t meet it. She’s fully capable of exceeding it and would not have to be close to her old form to do so. But she needs to improve quite a bit in the next 4-5 weeks. I think she can do it, but it depends on her training.

Run throughs. I'd rather have seen her spend less time doing tricks like being in the harness for 3A and quad. Spend that time doing run throughs. Looking on the bright side, maybe her team will do exactly that in preparation for sectionals.

 

[Silver Ice]

I’m wondering if it was part of the plan not to worry about skating everything perfectly well at regionals. Since it was her first competition in forever, and it was the first step to qualifying, I wonder if the plan was just to skate good enough. There were only four girls with scores she had to compete against, which means she didn’t have to attempt and land all her triples, so if she started feeling nervous or tired or whatever, would have kept her high enough to qualify without taking too many chances.

Those numbers won’t fly for the future, but she didn’t need those numbers here.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I'd rather have seen her spend less time doing tricks like being in the harness for 3A and quad. Spend that time doing run throughs. Looking on the bright side, maybe her team will do exactly that in preparation for sectionals.

I was thinking this too. However, I think it also is possible that her team wanted her to get the jumps back ASAP, because the longer she goes without being able to do them the harder it might be to get them again.

Hopefully a lot of the missed jumps were simply due to nerves. She gave up a lot of points missing jumps that she should be able to do, like her three 2A attempts.

 

[Tavi...]

Yes, I do realize she can make it at Sectionals; I’m just worried that she won’t. . In my opinion (which could easily be wrong) he is the perfect coach for her, regardless of her placements at competitions. He brought her back (well, I’m sure not him alone) from what seemed to be a pretty bad eating disorder and depression. That’s her real triumph, regardless of whether she ever steps foot onto Nationals ice ever again. Having said that, I really hope she does.

I love Gracie and hope she makes it back. She’s dealt with a lot, and I’m sure Vincent has helped her in many ways. But if she really wants to be in contention for the next Olympic team, she needs guidance from a coach with both strategic and technical expertise. Based on where Gracie is right now after 18 months with Vincent, I’m not sure he has that expertise.

 

[ice coverage]

Thoughts on Gracie:

- From her recent Instagram takeover before regionals, one thing that really struck me is how she spoke of her "safe space" at her rink, meaning IceWorks. "Safe space" was her exact phrase, IIRC. I don't remember her other exact words, but the idea was that she knows that she can count on her community of coaches and friends there to support her through thick and thin, no matter what kind of help she needs at any particular time.
After all that Gracie has been through, I imagine that such support would be extremely precious to her. It would be extremely precious to any skater or any person, I would think.

- I would not make an assumption that an elite skater who is on ice multiple hours per day is not devoting time/effort to program runthroughs ... just because of an occasional video in which s/he is seen jumping in harness. I also would not assume that Gracie's coaches are not working on fundamentals with her. I do not equate the sporadic videos of her with a (detrimental) focus on Instagram on the part of her coach.​

 

[theharleyquinn]

I’m wondering if it was part of the plan not to worry about skating everything perfectly well at regionals. Since it was her first competition in forever, and it was the first step to qualifying, I wonder if the plan was just to skate good enough. There were only four girls with scores she had to compete against, which means she didn’t have to attempt and land all her triples, so if she started feeling nervous or tired or whatever, would have kept her high enough to qualify without taking too many chances.

Those numbers won’t fly for the future, but she didn’t need those numbers here.

If that was the case, I feel like there was an easier layout she could've done (like doing the triple toe instead of the triple flip).

 

[skylark]

Thoughts on Gracie:

- From her recent Instagram takeover before regionals, one thing that really struck me is how she spoke of her "safe space" at her rink, meaning IceWorks. "Safe space" was her exact phrase, IIRC. I don't remember her other exact words, but the idea was that she knows that she can count on her community of coaches and friends there to support her through thick and thin, no matter what kind of help she needs at any particular time.
After all that Gracie has been through, I imagine that such support would be extremely precious to her. It would be extremely precious to any skater or any person, I would think.

- I would not make an assumption that an elite skater who is on ice multiple hours per day is not devoting time/effort to program runthroughs ... just because of an occasional video in which s/he is seen jumping in harness. I also would not assume that Gracie's coaches are not working on fundamentals with her. I do not equate the sporadic videos of her with a (detrimental) focus on Instagram on the part of her coach.​

No, but everything you choose to spend time on takes away from time spent on something else. that's all I'm saying.

I do agree with you that a "safe space" is very valuable.

 

[doublequad]

gracie's jumps (especially her lutzes) are wild because i think that's how she naturally used to jump. If you look at her old programs (pre Frank Carroll), her lutz-toes are huge and swinging. i don't know about body composition then vs now, and it shouldn't be a discussion really, but i trust the coaches know what to do. if not, she needs to get a new one after weighing her mental health and how it would change if she swapped coaches.

 

[Mishaminion]

The technique is there, the power is there, the control of air position and landing is something she can work on.
She has literally had to relearn all her jumps, there is obviously some muscle memory and know-how involved but it must be very hard, she doesn't need negativety (especially comments on her weight) right now but encouragement and support for whatever she chooses to do.

 

[Moxiejan]

It is not “fat-shaming” to state the obvious truth that there is a difference between what is fine for off-ice life and what is optimal for triple-jumping through a four-minute program. It sadly may be that very few skaters can perform post-puberty at the same elite level without resorting to some form of disordered eating. in Gracie’s case, she now has an adult body that appears to be at a healthy weight. But it is not even close to the same body she had in her peak years. What I’m hoping for her is that she can find a way to be happy/healthy in her sport without trying to “look 16” again.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I love Gracie and hope she makes it back. She’s dealt with a lot, and I’m sure Vincent has helped her in many ways. But if she really wants to be in contention for the next Olympic team, she needs guidance from a coach with both strategic and technical expertise. Based on where Gracie is right now after 18 months with Vincent, I’m not sure he has that expertise.

It's a tough situation because Gracie, understandably, does not want to make unhealthy choices for her mental and physical wellness. Gracie from 2016 is never coming back; not to say she can't achieve that level again, but if she does, she will get there in a way that's on her terms. From what little we see through social media, it seems Gracie is very happy going to practice every day and receives tremendous emotional support from her team. From that perspective, I'd say the student/coach relationship has been very successful.

 

[ice coverage]

… P Alex Evans 156 Pasadena Open
M Alyssa Rich 151 Broadmoor (SP&QFS)
E Heidi Munger 149 Collegiate
M Paige Rydberg 149 Southwest Florida Fall Classic
P Emilia Murdock 146 Glacier Falls (148.95 @ JGP)
E Julia Biechler 146 Wilmington
M Maxine Marie Bautista 146 Greater Chicagoland
M Stephanie Ciarochi 146 Skate Houston
P Caitlin Ha 145 Glacier Falls
P Sierra Venetta 145 Skate San Francisco
P Lily Sun 144 Skate St Moritz
M Akane Eguchi 142 Skate Detroit ...

Current Mids ranking- Glenn (might get bye to Nationals?), Kalyan, Rich, Rydberg, Bautista, Ciarochi, Eguchi

Current Pacs ranking- Evans, Murdock, Ha, Venetta, Sun, McIsaac, Nakahara ...

FWIW: Alex Evans, Alyssa Rich, and Akane Eguchi all competed in Junior Ladies at U.S. Challenge Skate a couple of weeks ago.

Although they were entered in NQS as Senior Ladies, is it possible that one or more of these three decided to compete as Junior Ladies in U.S. Qualifying??

ETA:

Never mind re Alex, who I now see is entered in Senior Ladies at Southwest Pacific regionals.

https://cdn3.sportngin.com/attachme...8.1509743001.1570414711-1468759106.1570414711​

---

Re Polina:

Does she have an NQS bye to Pacific Coast sectionals??
Here's why I think maybe(?) so:

Top six per section from NQS get byes to sectionals.
Although Polina is #10 in NQS standings for Pacific section, others above her already have byes (for other reasons) to Nats or sectionals.
For the purpose of counting NQS byes, do those who already have byes for other reasons get disregarded?
​

Final NQS standings for Senior Ladies in Pacific section:

1. Alysa Liu -- bye to Nats for reigning U.S. champion
2. Karen Chen -- bye to Nats b/c she has two GPs
3. Alex Evans
4. Milly Murdock -- bye to sectionals b/c of int'l assignment (which does not need to conflict with regionals)
5. Caitlin Ha
6. Sierra Venetta
7. Lily Sun
8. Brynne McIsaac -- if(?) she is focusing only(?) on Pairs, then maybe(?) she will no longer compete in Ladies?
9. Akari Nakahara -- if(?) USFS counts Philadelphia Int'l as an int'l assignment (and I think it should), then she already would have a bye to sectionals
10. Polina Edmunds
11. Chelsea Mischuk​

Sorry, need to correct a mistake in my previous post re Polina -- although it still seems within the realm of possibility to me that she has an NQS bye to sectionals.

The correction is that Milly Murdock does *not* have a bye to sectionals in Senior Ladies. (Her JGP assignment would give her a bye to sectionals only in Junior Ladies.)

Depending on what is happening with Alex, Brynne and/or Akari, still possible that Polina would have an NQS bye to sectionals, I think?

ETA:

Never mind re Alex, per my edit above.​

 

[Sk8D8]

Puberty

It is not “fat-shaming” to state the obvious truth that there is a difference between what is fine for off-ice life and what is optimal for triple-jumping through a four-minute program. It sadly may be that very few skaters can perform post-puberty at the same elite level without resorting to some form of disordered eating. in Gracie’s case, she now has an adult body that appears to be at a healthy weight. But it is not even close to the same body she had in her peak years. What I’m hoping for her is that she can find a way to be happy/healthy in her sport without trying to “look 16” again.

Has anyone considered that Gracie may have gone through puberty at a very late age? This is common to elite athletes. When she stopped skating and gained weight, her body may have finally at a healthy weight and she started puberty. This would explain why she looks bigger. If you really look she looks like she’s at a fine weight, just has a lot more curves!

 

[Mathman]

Thanks for joining in, Sk8D8, and welcome. Post often, post long!

 

[Mishaminion]

Has anyone considered that Gracie may have gone through puberty at a very late age? This is common to elite athletes. When she stopped skating and gained weight, her body may have finally at a healthy weight and she started puberty. This would explain why she looks bigger. If you really look she looks like she’s at a fine weight, just has a lot more curves!

She looks a little more curvy but that's all.
Some people seem to be talking like she's some massive heffa who is going to bust her ankles by jumping. I don't understand it.

 

[Sk8D8]

Completely agree! The woman just has more curves! As long as she’s happy and healthy, that’s all that matters. This is her skating and she needs to skate for herself. She has nothing to prove to anyone!

 

[katymay]

But to say she's harming herself is going a bit too far.
She's lifting and rotating her jumps in practice, so she can do them and I highly doubt she would be if it was deemed "unsafe "
That argument is kind of ridiculous and sounds like fat shaming to some people.
She's no skinny little waif and never was, she might never get a quad or a 3A properly but she's demonstrated she has the triples back, she just needs to get them back properly in competition, and that will come with hard work training, competing, building stamina and confidence. She will end up in even better shape by doing those things.

Actually it isn't. Often female basketball recruits used to be forced to 'bulk up' in college. This resulted in many career ending injuries, because women tend to gain in the hips, and the twisting and pounding caused ACL's to blow out. This is more specific to women, and the alignment of their hips, and how the weight is distributed.

 

[b-man]

Re Gracie’s stamina, she’s pretty much got to be able to sustain something close to her maximum heart rate for 4 minutes. You can’t train for that by doing anything other than running your program. I do wonder how many run throughs she had before yesterday.

There are a thousand ways to build stamina, exercise at a gym, run laps around your rink, train for mini marathons, spend time on a stationary bike, jump rope, swim laps, things serious athletes should be doing, in addition to run throughs.

 

[b-man]

I thought she looked great. Then again, my opinions often differ.

I haven't seen the video, but reading Haribobo's post 1987, she has currently the 9th best score in the East, and only the top 4 qualify. She can, and will need to skate better to make Nats. Some of those with higher current scores are also likely to improve.