2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[tothepointe]

The person who wrote that is just parroting what Dave Lease said in his TSL video about Gracie's performance at Regionals.

Shameless Lease has been pushing that sexist narrative about Gracie for some time--that she's too naive/fragile/ignorant to recognize when someone is "using" her for their own nefarious purposes.

And Lease continues to push it despite the fact that Gracie is a 24 year old experienced veteran figure skater who has made a point of stating in recent interviews that she is not emotionally fragile and that she has carefully considered her coaching situation.

I came here to basically say this. Honestly I'm insulted by it. I've been severely suicidal before having made 4 attempts one of which put me in a coma for several days. If you'd said to me that even 2 years after that I wasn't capable of going back to a scaled version of my previous job I would have punched you in the face. Depression doesn't last forever. You have struggles sure but you don't get better by sitting around doing nothing. Even 6 months after my bottom I was back working full time at a job which without disclosing my entire lifestory was a heck of a lot more stressful than being a skater at the domestic level.

I'm almost 100% sure the social media posts (which btw show only 15-60 seconds of Gracie's entire week) and the banners and skating show at the rink are just a small something to offset the fact that she probably gets free ice time and I would be really surprised if her coaching team is being paid at all.

I personally think Gracie is getting more out of the deal than she is giving in promotional consideration. She seems to have privacy and a team she enjoys working with. I really doubt there is a major coach who "doesn't need her" that would want to work with her right now.

People need to wise up to the fact that she's a 24 year old lady. She can make her own decisions. She has a personality of her own. She doesn't like run throughs and doesn't strike me as someone who can be made to do something she doesn't want to do. She WAS really out of shape/physical conditioning for a long time. People forget that. It's not like being injured and coming back.

 

[el henry]

whole post

Thank you for sharing your story, @tothepointe.

I do think, without playing "pile on" to Dave Lease, that he has a bee in his bonnet about Coach Vincent, and it's unjustified. Vincent is not just some guy hanging around the rink who's never coached before (as in he was Ting Cui's coach, as well as the jump coach with Kori, and other gigs). He's not posting Gracie clips to promote himself, it's what he does, and has done for years now. Gracie is not stupid, and Gracie probably knew that going in.

Gracie seems content where she is, and if she doesn't want to stay with Vincent, then she can leave.

In the meantime, wishing her the best on this long journey

 

[princessalica]

And take this with a grain of salt, but someone said that Gracie snapped her blade in practice less than a week out from REgionals and had to order new ones. I know Gracie isn't up to her previous level, but would changing blades and possibly boots have an impact on how she did?

I think the one of the most important things about Vincent posting Gracie's jump videos is showing that not only is Gracie seriously working on her comeback, but she's trying to comeback stronger than before. She wants new combos and harder jumps, and that is where she has some control. It is one thing to try to be who you used to be, but it is I believe a good sign of her mental health that she wants to be stronger than before. and it also says that she is very much paying attention to the up and comers. I think she really does mean business. It might not pan out, but she is giving it everything.

 

[flipsydoodle]

Figure skating has such a comparatively small fan community that things that would be largely ignored in the universe of other sports gets unnecessary attention. This is a glorified blog post, not an article.

I’m so glad Pearly posted the link for that article, which provides a specific and obvious example where a female figure skater is exploited for commercial purposes. It’s something we see frequently in the sport—in various contexts and slickly disguised—but this time at a rink. How many times do we have to see this kind of thing going on before we say “ENOUGH”?

If TSL is addressing this kind of exploitation, power to them. Too bad we haven’t heard voices of reason and outrage for years now.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

And take this with a grain of salt, but someone said that Gracie snapped her blade in practice less than a week out from REgionals and had to order new ones. I know Gracie isn't up to her previous level, but would changing blades and possibly boots have an impact on how she did?

I think the one of the most important things about Vincent posting Gracie's jump videos is showing that not only is Gracie seriously working on her comeback, but she's trying to comeback stronger than before. She wants new combos and harder jumps, and that is where she has some control. It is one thing to try to be who you used to be, but it is I believe a good sign of her mental health that she wants to be stronger than before. and it also says that she is very much paying attention to the up and comers. I think she really does mean business. It might not pan out, but she is giving it everything.

Switching boots would be a bit of an issue, because a new pair aren't going to have the fit of the pair you just used and had very broken in. But Gracie wears Edea and they have little to no break in time unlike old school leather boots/brands that many of us prefer. A new blade would have minimal impact unless she changed type of blade completely as in going from the Pattern 99 that she was known to wear to a Gold Seal/Gold Star or even a Matrix blade.
It more comes down to this: If she wasn't ready then a boot/blade switch wasn't going to affect her that much if it was what I described above.

 

[natsulian]

Switching boots would be a bit of an issue, because a new pair aren't going to have the fit of the pair you just used and had very broken in. But Gracie wears Edea and they have little to no break in time unlike old school leather boots/brands that many of us prefer. A new blade would have minimal impact unless she changed type of blade completely as in going from the Pattern 99 that she was known to wear to a Gold Seal/Gold Star or even a Matrix blade.
It more comes down to this: If she wasn't ready then a boot/blade switch wasn't going to affect her that much if it was what I described above.

I would have to respectfully disagree. No matter how comfortable one is with a BRAND, switching to new boots, blades, etc... is still daunting. Plus, the switch affects athletes differently. Young You’s new boots led to her falling on jumps she otherwise had and Alysa’s new boots led to her popping and falling. The thing is, in a sport where nerves and adrenaline are already at peak level, being outside of your comfort zone by even just a smidge can be the deciding factor in a performance riddled with pops and falls. People, especially athletes, want to perform in comfortable situations where almost everything is identical to how they practiced and that means equipment as well.

Regardless of how Gracie performed, what she did on the ice was very brave and is only the starting point. Best of luck to Gracie and I wish her the best. Let us not ponder and hypothesize over details we may never know. Instead, let us congratulate a sincerely courageous athlete on her return to competition.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I would have to respectfully disagree. No matter how comfortable one is with a BRAND, switching to new boots, blades, etc... is still daunting. Plus, the switch affects athletes differently. Young You’s new boots led to her falling on jumps she otherwise had and Alysa’s new boots led to her popping and falling. The thing is, in a sport where nerves and adrenaline are already at peak level, being outside of your comfort zone by even just a smidge can be the deciding factor in a performance riddled with pops and falls. People, especially athletes, want to perform in comfortable situations where almost everything is identical to how they practiced and that means equipment as well.

Regardless of how Gracie performed, what she did on the ice was very brave and is only the starting point. Best of luck to Gracie and I wish her the best. Let us not ponder and hypothesize over details we may never know. Instead, let us congratulate a sincerely courageous athlete on her return to competition.

And I'm kindly going to disagree in return.
I never said they wouldn't affect her. I know my stuff from years of first hand experience, you should come over to the Lutz Corner sometime. I've helped many.

Also, how many of those examples you've given have been switching to different boots, different brands, etc?!?!?

I said that GG would have minimal issues if she stayed with what she knows. Now unless she did something I just listed above then there should be MINIMAL issues. Also, if you go back some pages I was defending Gracie in another post, so it's not like I'm on here criticizing her like others.

PrincessAlica asked a question and I answered that in general terms. Now enough off topic, let's get back on track.

 

[theharleyquinn]

I’m so glad Pearly posted the link for that article, which provides a specific and obvious example where a female figure skater is exploited for commercial purposes. It’s something we see frequently in the sport—in various contexts and slickly disguised—but this time at a rink. How many times do we have to see this kind of thing going on before we say “ENOUGH”?

If TSL is addressing this kind of exploitation, power to them. Too bad we haven’t heard voices of reason and outrage for years now.

I think TSL likely has a bit more insight into the situation than the writer of the article, especially since TSL has connections to skaters/coaches/rink staff.

 

[el henry]

I think TSL likely has a bit more insight into the situation than the writer of the article, especially since TSL has connections to skaters/coaches/rink staff.

TSL does indeed know about coaching changes and other news, and I believe them when they report such.

Their opinion about Gracie, however, is just that, their opinion. Their speculation about Coach Vincent’s motives is just that, speculation. Particularly when the speculation appears based on some unfounded personal animosity to Coach Vincent.

They “know” no more about this than any random poster on this Forum.

 

[natsulian]

And I'm kindly going to disagree in return.
I never said they wouldn't affect her. I know my stuff from years of first hand experience, you should come over to the Lutz Corner sometime. I've helped many.

Also, how many of those examples you've given have been switching to different boots, different brands, etc?!?!?

I said that GG would have minimal issues if she stayed with what she knows. Now unless she did something I just listed above then there should be MINIMAL issues. Also, if you go back some pages I was defending Gracie in another post, so it's not like I'm on here criticizing her like others.

PrincessAlica asked a question and I answered that in general terms. Now enough off topic, let's get back on track.

I read your comment incorrectly, my bad. >_<

 

[ribbit]

I’m so glad Pearly posted the link for that article, which provides a specific and obvious example where a female figure skater is exploited for commercial purposes. It’s something we see frequently in the sport—in various contexts and slickly disguised—but this time at a rink. How many times do we have to see this kind of thing going on before we say “ENOUGH”?

If TSL is addressing this kind of exploitation, power to them. Too bad we haven’t heard voices of reason and outrage for years now.

This "article" is no more than an opinion piece. The author has no sources, no facts, just a set of beliefs. In another column she claims to have been a competitive skater for ten years, as well as a judge and official, but she does not claim any connection to or firsthand knowledge of Gracie's situation. She offers no evidence that IceWorks is exploiting Gracie, no evidence that Vincent or any other member of her team is advising her poorly. She's hypothesizing and then treating her hypotheses as proven facts, which is completely contrary to good journalistic practice. Like many posters on this forum, she appears to have formed a set of expectations based on her interpretation of Vincent Restencourt's Instagram feed, and to be handling her disappointment by attributing her expectations to Vincent and Gracie and blaming Gracie for not having lived up to expectations that neither Gracie nor her team claimed to share.

Now, it may be that Gracie or other skaters are being exploited by coaches, rinks, managers, pushy parents, and/or aggressive federations. (Please note that I am NOT saying that Gracie is! I have absolutely no hard evidence one way or another, and I understand the limitations of my knowledge--I'm just a fan of figure skating.) But if such exploitation is going on, change will come when that exploitation is exposed by proper investigative journalism, interventions by qualified health professionals, or interventions by well-informed people with concrete knowledge of an unhealthy situation. This piece is none of these.

 

[theharleyquinn]

This "article" is no more than an opinion piece. The author has no sources, no facts, just a set of beliefs. In another column she claims to have been a competitive skater for ten years, as well as a judge and official, but she does not claim any connection to or firsthand knowledge of Gracie's situation. She offers no evidence that IceWorks is exploiting Gracie, no evidence that Vincent or any other member of her team is advising her poorly. She's hypothesizing and then treating her hypotheses as proven facts, which is completely contrary to good journalistic practice. Like many posters on this forum, she appears to have formed a set of expectations based on her interpretation of Vincent Restencourt's Instagram feed, and to be handling her disappointment by attributing her expectations to Vincent and Gracie and blaming Gracie for not having lived up to expectations that neither Gracie nor her team claimed to share.

Now, it may be that Gracie or other skaters are being exploited by coaches, rinks, managers, pushy parents, and/or aggressive federations. (Please note that I am NOT saying that Gracie is! I have absolutely no hard evidence one way or another, and I understand the limitations of my knowledge--I'm just a fan of figure skating.) But if such exploitation is going on, change will come when that exploitation is exposed by proper investigative journalism, interventions by qualified health professionals, or interventions by well-informed people with concrete knowledge of an unhealthy situation. This piece is none of these.

100% agreed, and a lot of this is beyond the scope of this thread, but there's a lot about the dynamics of this sport that makes that type of investigation difficult. But that work isn't being done by this article.

 

[frida80]

Whenever I got my blades sharpened, it was ugly. I didn’t have the same control that I just did. I often went to public skate just to dull them a little more.

When Rika swapped his blades at JW a few years ago, it was a disaster. Skaters try to avoid swapping boots and blades at all cost before competitions. It definitely could affect Gracie if that happened.

But I’ll point out that skating in a full competition in a long time is a lot tougher than the skater and coach realizes. The mental energy to keep going is very tough. I think Gracie needs time to adjust to competing FS again.

 

[natsulian]

Mia Kalin, who will debut internationally this year as an Adv. Novice, answered some questions on her Instagram. She said she will be attempting a 4S when she is ready to put it in the program. She will be competing alongside Isabeau Levito at this year’s Asian Open.

 

[readernick]

Mia Kalin, who will debut internationally this year as an Adv. Novice, answered some questions on her Instagram. She said she will be attempting a 4S when she is ready to put it in the program. She will be competing alongside Isabeau Levito at this year’s Asian Open.

That's good. I hope she works on her SS, too. Isabeau Levito already has great basics (she should also continue improving) but Mia really looks weak in her basics in comparison. Jumps aren't enough.

 

[tothepointe]

I think people are attributing to malice what could easily be explained by things just being the way that they are. So people are disappointed. It was to be expected somewhat.

Even when you look at some of the better instagram clips there were some imperfects that would become magnified if you strung them all together in a program when you hadn't skate a program in years. I've forgotten most of her program already but she didn't fall right? It was just a string of not world quality jumps. Could they get better? Sure there is potential there.

If she was already back to her old self already something would be suspect. In fact this level is promising because it means she is not being pushed too hard or beyond her limits. I remember her last international season she showed up at the Japan Open looking not great but then 3 weeks later suddenly looked very different.

The music choice she chose last year and I'm sure it fit well and it may not have been in the cards to get new programs for whatever reason. It's fine. Amber Glenn skated to the same music at the Peggy Fleming trophy didn't she?

Also remember the criticism (from me included) when she showed up in Russia last year after no one had seen a single thing from her in public. The instagram posts started after that and I thought it was a good decision.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Are the rumors true? Is ISU really going to livestream the senior GP on YouTube?? But that there will be some geo-blocking going on?

 

[Ross74]

Are the rumors true? Is ISU really going to livestream the senior GP on YouTube?? But that there will be some geo-blocking going on?

https://www.isu.org/isu-news/news/145-news/12726-isu-events-live-on-youtube?templateParam=15

 

[tothepointe]

Nice little quote from Frank

FSO: Speaking of Gracie Gold, what do you think of her comeback?



Frank Carroll: “Well, I think that if she does succeed, it will be wonderful for her. She went through a deeply emotional, disturbing time in her life and unfortunately, she was unable to share that with me. I knew there was something wrong, but these kids, when they have a problem, they don’t open up about it, they keep it hidden. Sometimes they don’t know what’s wrong with themselves. Part of what we do in coaching skating is being basically a psychologist. I’m very grateful for the courses I took at Holy Cross [where Carroll went to college in his hometown of Worcester, MA] that had to do with psychology, because I think that understanding behavior and interactions with other human beings was a very helpful thing for me.”

http://figureskatersonline.com/news...0-OdmSqhzvU3G7k6GxY4DrSuYkAoCpCk3guUXjMX0EZRc

 

[macy]

Nice little quote from Frank

FSO: Speaking of Gracie Gold, what do you think of her comeback?



Frank Carroll: “Well, I think that if she does succeed, it will be wonderful for her. She went through a deeply emotional, disturbing time in her life and unfortunately, she was unable to share that with me. I knew there was something wrong, but these kids, when they have a problem, they don’t open up about it, they keep it hidden. Sometimes they don’t know what’s wrong with themselves. Part of what we do in coaching skating is being basically a psychologist. I’m very grateful for the courses I took at Holy Cross [where Carroll went to college in his hometown of Worcester, MA] that had to do with psychology, because I think that understanding behavior and interactions with other human beings was a very helpful thing for me.”

http://figureskatersonline.com/news...0-OdmSqhzvU3G7k6GxY4DrSuYkAoCpCk3guUXjMX0EZRc

i wonder if she felt she couldn't trust Frank enough to tell him. i believe i've read he's made comments before about eating when he coached Evan and Michelle but i could be wrong. maybe that's why?