2019 US Nationals Senior Free Dance

[Skater Boy]

The program is still a matter of polishing a turd, but I give them credit for finally -- finally!--doing REAL lifts that don't involve her stepping up onto his boot. Not for one nanosecond do I buy them as R&J. They're too mature, too 'knowing" to play innocent young lovers. Of course they'll win, but the Russians are MORE than nipping at their heels. And this program is like dead weight.

What about the Italians they could sneak in and could Weapo or GP challenge. I really like GP's freedance. I like WEapo overall this year their two programs. PC from France will still win but H/D; C/B; weapo, the Italians, S/K; S/B and GP all can duke it out for silver and bronze (originally Iwould have ceded the silver to H/D but I am no longer so sure. I do think one of the Americans will medal behind P/C. Now who else will get a medal? The Canadians and Russians have a lot of pressure trying to gain or regain three spots. BEcause there are so many great teams if two teams from Canada or Russia end up on the lower part of the top ten there goes the dream. But it could happen as after P/C there are about 7 maybe even 8 teams that could battle for the bronze or end up say in 8th or 9th place.

 

[fleeting]

Guys I went looking for a bathroom and ran into Mirai and almost cried (and got a pic I’m yelling)

 

[Skater Boy]

Random Off-Topic Storytime: Yuzudaughter absolutely HATES Under Pressure, but LOVES Ice Ice Baby, which she refers to as “the real, good version of the song.”

Yeah yeah, I know, I know, total parenting fail 101 on my part.

Under pressure certainly was an interesting choice. I still find it hard to believe that Yuzuru fathered a child.

- - - Updated - - -

Guys I went looking for a bathroom and ran into Mirai and almost cried (and got a pic I’m yelling)

Don't tell Moonvine. She paid a fortune to meet Mirai.

 

[Skater Boy]

well so far all the good programs are out there, may have to wait until morning for the rest to come out.

Maybe in ice dance it is cyclical in respect to coaches. Each has had their day Igor and Marina, just Marina, just Igor, Krylova and Camerango, Gadbois, Zhulin, Morozov, someof the Russian coaches You're only as good as your next break out team.

 

[moonvine]

So happy that my fave team finally got bronze!!!!

Me too!!!!!

 

[moonvine]

Don't tell Moonvine. She paid a fortune to meet Mirai.

Worth it 100%

 

[WeakAnkles]

What about the Italians they could sneak in and could Weapo or GP challenge. I really like GP's freedance. I like WEapo overall this year their two programs. PC from France will still win but H/D; C/B; weapo, the Italians, S/K; S/B and GP all can duke it out for silver and bronze (originally Iwould have ceded the silver to H/D but I am no longer so sure. I do think one of the Americans will medal behind P/C. Now who else will get a medal? The Canadians and Russians have a lot of pressure trying to gain or regain three spots. BEcause there are so many great teams if two teams from Canada or Russia end up on the lower part of the top ten there goes the dream. But it could happen as after P/C there are about 7 maybe even 8 teams that could battle for the bronze or end up say in 8th or 9th place.

Yup. That's spot on. Which should make for a very exciting second half of the season.

The other factor you're not accounting for is politics. Which do appear to be rearing their ugly head again this quad. It is ID after all. LOL!

 

[NoNameFace]

Just re-watched some performances - in all honesty, I don't know why Chock/Bates did not win. The difference in terms of program appeal/concept vs maching the team vs performance quality was really apparent for me; yes, C/B may have not a long mileage to their programs, but they already grew that FD leaps and bounds from last I saw it at Mentor Cup, meahwhile Hubbell/Donohue competing since Autumn polished their program yet there is a sense of something static, bland and stale about that FD imo, I can't shake that feel out watching. And don't get me wrong - I do see their quality and skills, the problem is the utilization of them in the program and seeing back-to-back comparison with beast of a program Chock/Bates have.

I think that the biggest forte of that Elvis FD, apart of course from freshness factor, is the organic notion given yo it in terms of interpretation as to present two beautiful people, being together, having great & natural chemistry going between them in vintage-glam aesthetically designed program. The whole concept just clicks on every ground: choreo, musicality, expression, interaction between two of them, capitalizing from what Madison and Evan have already, not what they have to develop to make that program pop out and be relatable. For me, there's a high amount of satisfaction watching this program, seeing it maching their style and partnership bond, enjoying the moment they can make magical between them for us. Comparing R&J to it, it falls a bit flat, forced and overwrought in presentation, despite technical strenght in execution; I said this after seeing this FD at US Classic and this hasn't changed: the music choice along with this particular story to portray still feels uninspired and as an afterthought. Deciding on such particular theme, characters puts into a specific box team has choice to escape from (by treating the theme in more non-standard way) or staying there within rather 'comfort zone' - H/D for me chose the later and now, with Chock/Bates' effective contrast provided, the nice technically visual created, a clean performance is not enough to take advantage (at least for me, not really to judges it seems). While Chock/Bates seems to enjoy the music, the sass, the chemistry natually going between them, seducing each other (and the audience in the process, dare I say), Hubbell/Donohue are less organic in telling the story that was told already so many times, it definitely has not the same allure and eye-catching quality as Elvis FD.

Madison and Evan seems really rejuvenated, with very high energy and vivid expression going on - the move and the break seems to ignite a new fire within them. There's just so much more 'punch' added to their movement, making it sharper and more precise/defined with the music along with making their skating just more emotive and expressive. What I appreciate the most is that they still are this team I know and grew to respect, still dazzling with amazing lifts and coverage, impactful presence, yet they are 'better version of themselves' I'd say, they seems to thrive the moment on the ice, the moment of performance more intensely, putting great amount of detail and engagement into their movement and partnership on ice. I see them being challenged by this program and enjoying every second of it, which I don't see in H/D's R&J - from this interview they said that they had no particular idea for FD, I knew this won't have that much of 'punch' to it, being usually team's personal commitment to the idea they're pushing forward. The program sure is nice, skated cleanly, but haven't we seen a lot of those already?

Comparing both performances yesterday, there's for me just more 'heaviness' and forcefulness in expression/interpretation from Hubbell/Donohue, 'hollier than thou' acting and artificial affection, judges saw it differently though. Chock/Bates are just more intricately natural in their expression and musical interpretation, choreo design compliments both rhythms and Madison really shines in both as a performer and top class seductress, she captivates attention like Old Hollywood Star by mere fingers' flick. Good thing is that they seem to enjoy performing it so much and develop the program with each outing, I do hope international judges will grow to appreciate it.

 

[cell]

You are totally correct, NoNameFace. The Hubbell/Donohue performance comes across as overwrought and forced. The beginning of Their free almost feels like they are channeling the ice dance faux drama of the 90s... There is no denying the technical skills, but the changes made to both RD and FD have not been for the better.. They tried to add more "drama" to both RD and FD, and it just comes across as forced.

 

[Scrufflet]

Wow! For the first time in years, I liked Cho/Ba. Previously, they did not seem to connect to their music (for me anyway;I'm sure many disagree) but last night they were an absolute gush of fresh air blasting through the place! She looked so happy, in her own space. And he is looking more believable as the leading man. I did enjoy Hub/Don but I don't know if this is the vehicle for them to challenge Pap/Ciz. NoNameFace and cell, I think you both have nailed it with your assessments. Now I hope someone really challenges Pap/Ciz in the eyes of the judges.

 

[NoNameFace]

Wow! For the first time in years, I liked Cho/Ba. Previously, they did not seem to connect to their music (for me anyway;I'm sure many disagree) but last night they were an absolute gush of fresh air blasting through the place! She looked so happy, in her own space. And he is looking more believable as the leading man. I did enjoy Hub/Don but I don't know if this is the vehicle for them to challenge Pap/Ciz. NoNameFace and cell, I think you both have nailed it with your assessments. Now I hope someone really challenges Pap/Ciz in the eyes of the judges.

This is an interesting bit (and thanks for the shoutout btw!) - the concept of having a vehicle to challenge P/C. Myself, I think that there is not enough allowance in terms of reward possible given by judges to more diverse, out-there & original repetoire, it is more about appropriating dance style preferred by judges into pleasant visual. This season though, Fear/Gibson are nice surprise in terms of rewarding frankly new team with let's say 'non-standard' aesthetic shown nowadays. Teams could risk it with original material from not off-beaten path, but I think there is a precaution there unspoken about still containing themselves into 'decorum' area and not getting too far ahead; imo it is a lot more difficult to success with broadly speaking 'non-lyrical/contemporary' stuff also because P/C became a form of 'judging template' in terms of aesthetic and such shortcuts judging done a lot of times do not exactly encourage to get out and experiment, especially under new judging system with GOE dominance.

Back to H/D - the thing is that the vehicle flattens their capability and potential, not really even talking about being or not a vehicle to, 'challenge P/C'. I expected them to challenge themselves first thing after last season and get out more for the material, instead I see compliant attitude to established standards of aesthetic 'decorum'. Last season, they had their share of technical mistakes, but their FD posed some kind of challenge out there, setting them apart, an opposite take this season - getting stronger & consistent in tech execution, but fading away with matetial I think

 

[karne]

Random Off-Topic Storytime: Yuzudaughter absolutely HATES Under Pressure, but LOVES Ice Ice Baby, which she refers to as “the real, good version of the song.”

Yeah yeah, I know, I know, total parenting fail 101 on my part.

*scandalised expression* WHAT? Yuzudaughter prefers that talentless hack to the clever brilliance of John Deacon? *clutches pearls* She must be educated!

Anyway, my favourite FD of the night was, no surprises, Manta/Johnson's Sweet Dreams FD. It had so much fire. The only other FD that came close was Chock/Bates which I did enjoy a lot. I got kinda tired of the tinkly pretty FDs after a while and I think the crowd did too.

My Queen-points rating of the Parsons:

Bohemian Rhapsody: +1
Not terrible cuts: +1
Costume: -2 for mixing eras: Flash Gordon was around 81 and the armband was Live Aid in 85. The two don't mix. Oh, and BoRhap was 75, so...
Program: -1 for not enough swag. And also for wiping out the twizzle.

Needed more time and runthroughs, I think. And maybe a different Queen song. BoRhap is of course a masterpiece but not inherently skateable IMO. They could do Teo Torriatte, or You're My Best Friend, or if they wanted to stay hard rock there's lots of fun to be had on the first two albums. White Queen!

(Plus, Queen's 70s costuming was mostly white satin and oversized bell sleeves. DO IT!)

 

[yelyoh]

Looking at the protocols for FD I think C & B were robbed. There I said the r word. If you compare PCS, the judges had H & D ahead in every category. Skating skills maybe but everything else, no way. I've never been that much of a fan of C&B but that FD is my favorite for the season.

 

[AJVMSA8588]

You are totally correct, NoNameFace. The Hubbell/Donohue performance comes across as overwrought and forced. The beginning of Their free almost feels like they are channeling the ice dance faux drama of the 90s... There is no denying the technical skills, but the changes made to both RD and FD have not been for the better.. They tried to add more "drama" to both RD and FD, and it just comes across as forced.

For me, the drama was effective at the beginning, powerful. Harnessing their literal strength. The kissing you music is lovely but close to elevator music....I found last year's free from H/D so much more effective.


C/B felt like a nice brunch mimosa

 

[cell]

For me, the drama was effective at the beginning, powerful. Harnessing their literal strength. The kissing you music is lovely but close to elevator music....I found last year's free from H/D so much more effective.


C/B felt like a nice brunch mimosa

H/D have done "drama" so much better in the their FD from 2015-2016 Tron Soundtrack FD IMO. It was powerful, but not over the top... I personally liked the softer iteration of R&J they had at the beginning of the season better, and the choreo step sequence was expertly placed in that iteration

 

[Scrufflet]

This is an interesting bit (and thanks for the shoutout btw!) - the concept of having a vehicle to challenge P/C. Myself, I think that there is not enough allowance in terms of reward possible given by judges to more diverse, out-there & original repetoire, it is more about appropriating dance style preferred by judges into pleasant visual. This season though, Fear/Gibson are nice surprise in terms of rewarding frankly new team with let's say 'non-standard' aesthetic shown nowadays. Teams could risk it with original material from not off-beaten path, but I think there is a precaution there unspoken about still containing themselves into 'decorum' area and not getting too far ahead; imo it is a lot more difficult to success with broadly speaking 'non-lyrical/contemporary' stuff also because P/C became a form of 'judging template' in terms of aesthetic and such shortcuts judging done a lot of times do not exactly encourage to get out and experiment, especially under new judging system with GOE dominance.

Back to H/D - the thing is that the vehicle flattens their capability and potential, not really even talking about being or not a vehicle to, 'challenge P/C'. I expected them to challenge themselves first thing after last season and get out more for the material, instead I see compliant attitude to established standards of aesthetic 'decorum'. Last season, they had their share of technical mistakes, but their FD posed some kind of challenge out there, setting them apart, an opposite take this season - getting stronger & consistent in tech execution, but fading away with matetial I think

Thanks for this. You've said so much; I have to take it away and ponder on it some more. Man ice dance is so exciting these days! I think it will be the most exciting event of the four, although I'm looking forward to them all.

 

[labgoat]

Maybe in ice dance it is cyclical in respect to coaches. Each has had their day Igor and Marina, just Marina, just Igor, Krylova and Camerango, Gadbois, Zhulin, Morozov, someof the Russian coaches You're only as good as your next break out team.

Dont count Marina out - she is busy with a wedding, relocating, setting up a new training center. I think she will be back for next seson. Who wouldn't want to train with someone her caliber in the sun!

 

[NoNameFace]

Thanks for this. You've said so much; I have to take it away and ponder on it some more. Man ice dance is so exciting these days! I think it will be the most exciting event of the four, although I'm looking forward to them all.

Yeah, I say too much sometimes, I have to learn to shut up more, but yeah - it is (still) my favourite discipline and I can talk about it for hours...

 

[moonvine]

I don't know how many more times there will be a Gadbois sweep at nationals. H/B were scored closer to M/C and C/P than H/D and C/B. They have been senior for some time, so I think it is interesting. I think if the other teams have some incredible programs next year, I think H/B could be overtaken.

I sure hope not. H/B are far and away my favorites

 

[Scrufflet]

Yeah, I say too much sometimes, I have to learn to shut up more, but yeah - it is (still) my favourite discipline and I can talk about it for hours...

Please don't shut up more! I really meant that I wanted to ponder much of what you've said. Carry on!