2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 761 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Status
Not open for further replies.

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Anna, Sasha, Aliona, etc all competed at the senior cup stages as juniors. Aliona actually won the cup final after competing at both junior and senior nationals. (This was the 2017-2018 season - Aliona didn't turn senior internationally until the 2019-2020 season).
It's a different time now and you have to let the true juniors skate at Russian nationals. Dasha Maya and KV have gotten immeasurable experiences skating against great competition at the Russian cup stages this season. They don't need junior nationals nor should they be there. There's just too many girls now. And the fed does not want to stunt the growth of the 13 year old girls coming up. Winning junior nationals would do nothing for KVi Dasha or Maia. But it would be something huge for one of the Sofias or Veronika or whoever would win. This is how the Russian federation has kept the Russian ladies in Russian girls machine going the last 5 years or so. Everybody gets a piece of the pie. Then the best girls pull away from the others.

Now they were still having junior worlds this year the Sofias might not make that team and the other 3 girls we were talking about would be at junior nationals. But junior nationals as different as we both know and you can let the other less experience girls get some valuable experience against great competition.
 

Lzbee

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
That's easy Scott. If we go by # of medals (JW, Euros, Worlds, Olympics, GPs, JGPs, RusNats), here is the top 10, and then you can choose from there... ;)

1. Irina Slutskaya 59 (JGPs not available)
2. Maria Butyrskaya 39 (JGPs not available)
3. Evgenia Medvedeva 28
4. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva 26
5. Viktoria Volchkova (Butsaeva) 25
6. Elena Radionova 23
7. Elena Sokolova 22 (JGPs not available)
8. Adelina Sotnikova 19
9. Alina Zagitova 18
10. Yulia Lipnitskaya 17
What would this look like without nationals medals?

It would eliminate bias towards skaters who may have got medals domestically due to low competition but it disadvantage those like Anna who have more success at nationals despite the same level of competition internationally. Just curious how much it would change the list.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
She said that she is into doing choreo
Good news.

When these ladies retire at the age of 18 or 25 and the same goes for the guys of course it must be strange to retire so young that is probably an empty feeling and I hope they all find their way.
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
What would this look like without nationals medals?

It would eliminate bias towards skaters who may have got medals domestically due to low competition but it disadvantage those like Anna who have more success at nationals despite the same level of competition internationally. Just curious how much it would change the list.
1. Irina Slutskaya 59 (JGPs not available) (including 9 national medals)
2. Maria Butyrskaya 39 (JGPs not available) (11 national medals)
3. Evgenia Medvedeva 28 (3 national medals)
4. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva 26 (5 national medals)
5. Viktoria Volchkova (Butsaeva) 25 (5 national medals)
6. Elena Radionova 23 (4 national medals)
7. Elena Sokolova 22 (JGPs not available) (6 national medals)
8. Adelina Sotnikova 19 (5 national medals)
9. Alina Zagitova 18 (2 national medals)
10. Yulia Lipnitskaya 17 (2 national medals)

Omitting the national medals doesn't change much. Anna Pogorilaya (15 international medals) would push Sotnikova out of the top 10.

Note: Butyrskaya who has the most National medals (11) was NOT a RusFed favourite. They could never forgive her for bombing at Worlds 1993, causing Russia to have NO spots for Olympics 1994. They told her she was too old and should quit. But she kept ending up on the RusNats podium anyway 11 consecutive times including 6 wins.

The competition for Russian Ladies might not has been as hard in the 90s as it is today, but it was really tough back then too. A lot of Junior skaters in the 1990s never had a successful senior career, most notably Elena Ivanova with 4 Junior Worlds medals but no senior medals whatsoever.

PS. Anna, Sasha and Alëna has probably been robbed of potential 5 international medals so far due to COVID. Sasha and Alëna would probably be in the top 10 without the pandemic, not Anna though as she missed a junior season.
 
Last edited:

Thrashergurl

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Strategically remove words from your comment?!! Your post is out there in the public. And that is exactly what you said:


I know very well this is not the first time you've made that comment about Alina. And I have definitely noticed how each time you tried to wrap that shady comment within a bunch of compliments.

Now that I call you out on that, you call me young and strategic?!
Clearly my posts indicates that she never seemed happy. It wasn’t stated as fact. Unless the word seemed has a different meaning in your world. And yep, I’ve stated in the past that she didn’t SEEM happy, because she didn’t seem happy. Please look this word up on the dictionary.
This is my last response to this middle school war on words. Feel free to message me privately if you’d like to carry this further.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
What would this look like without nationals medals?

It would eliminate bias towards skaters who may have got medals domestically due to low competition but it disadvantage those like Anna who have more success at nationals despite the same level of competition internationally. Just curious how much it would change the

What would this look like without nationals medals?

It would eliminate bias towards skaters who may have got medals domestically due to low competition but it disadvantage those like Anna who have more success at nationals despite the same level of competition internationally. Just curious how much it would change the list.
Good point.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
1. Irina Slutskaya 59 (JGPs not available) (including 9 national medals)
2. Maria Butyrskaya 39 (JGPs not available) (11 national medals)
3. Evgenia Medvedeva 28 (3 national medals)
4. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva 26 (5 national medals)
5. Viktoria Volchkova (Butsaeva) 25 (5 national medals)
6. Elena Radionova 23 (4 national medals)
7. Elena Sokolova 22 (JGPs not available) (6 national medals)
8. Adelina Sotnikova 19 (5 national medals)
9. Alina Zagitova 18 (2 national medals)
10. Yulia Lipnitskaya 17 (2 national medals)

It doesn't change much. Anna Pogorilaya (15 international medals) would push Sotnikova out of the top 10.

Note: Butyrskaya who has the most National medals (11) was NOT a RusFed favourite. They could never forgive her for bombing at Worlds 1993, causing Russia to have NO spots for Olympics 1994. They told her she was too old and should quit. But she kept ending up on the RusNats podium anyway 11 consecutive times including 6 wins.

The competition for Russian Ladies might not has been as hard in the 90s as it is today, but it was really tough back then too. A lot of Junior skaters in the 1990s never had a successful senior career, most notably Elena Ivanova with 4 Junior Worlds medals but no senior medals whatsoever.

PS. Anna, Sasha and Alëna has probably been robbed of potential 5 international medals so far due to COVID. Sasha and Alëna would probably be in the top 10 without the pandemic, not Anna though as she missed a junior season.

No spots at lillihammer 1994 because of Maria? I didn't know that or forgot about that but that's outrageous. That was the whole Nancy and Tonya Olympics. Did Russia when 3 of the 4 disciplines at that electrics but not have a lady?
 

starlight97

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
She didn't mention anyone specifically, but I'm guessing these included figures like TAT telling her dad on national television that they like others more
Still one of the biggest disgraces I've seen in figure skating, how TAT got away with those comments without being cancelled as she should have been so many times before already is mind blowing. They should have been praising Alina and bowing to her for the performances she gave at the Olympics at 15yo, which provided their country and federation a gold medal after all.
I'm never emotionally involved in this sport, just interested, but the one time I felt real anger and frustration was during Alina's win in South Korea and how she was treated, or lack thereof, during and after it. As if it was her fault that she was the better skater that night.
I couldn't care less if Evgenia had been there longer, was set up to win, was favored by her coaches and TAT- like individuals. That night and the weeks after should have been the moment to celebrate Alina, not to console and talk endlessly about the "robbed" silver medalist who simply happened to be only the second best skater in the world that night.
 
Last edited:

Resa

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Well most skaters already have that warm and comfy place to go to after training, whether they live with their parents or in dorms.

Or are you suggesting only cottages can be warm and comfy?
You may think having a cottage is a real value in life, well that's your opinion and I'm not gonna argue with that. People have different standards and values in life.
I'm not saying that it has to be specifically a cottage, just that having a comfortable place to stay is very valuable. And we don't know Stasyas living situation. We don't know if its good or bad.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
On the other hand, there is effort. I would like to see Anna giving the dance lesson to those boys :biggrin:

I remember two dance vids two years ago, in the first there was Zheleznyakov and all three, Anna, Sasha, Aliona, then about a month later there was a second one only with Anna and Zheleznyakov on the same music and one comment stated "Bravo Anna, your student gets better" :biggrin:
 
Last edited:

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
No spots at lillihammer 1994 because of Maria? I didn't know that or forgot about that but that's outrageous. That was the whole Nancy and Tonya Olympics. Did Russia when 3 of the 4 disciplines at that electrics but not have a lady?
Yep! That Olympics drama lacked Russian ladies. It was all about Nancy/Tonya/Oksana.

It shows though that although the RusFed was furious with Butyrskaya, they were still fair in judging at RusNats, giving her spots for Europeans and Worlds for years to come. And we mustn't forget...Maria proved RusFed wrong ("You should quit, you are too old") when she was the first Russian Lady to win the Worlds in 1999. She was a hero after that...
 

chasingneverland

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
That's a great list. I think we forget how good VV was.

But I don't go by the number of medals or length of career as the main criteria because back then with a lot of the ladies on your list there was much kess domestic competition compared to the last 5 years or so making it easier to rack up massive medal #s back then.

Also the number of medals for Zhenya Adelina and Alina don't come close to some others but they had great moments in their careers even though their careers were a lot shorter. I mean didn't Medevedeva start her senior career with nothing but gold medals
For the first 2 plus seasons of her senior career until she broke her foot in 2018? We will never see early career domination like that again.

No one even like Anna or sasha or perhaps any of the Sofia's in the future will ever come close to the top 5 on your list for number of medals because they are going to get pushed out of the way by the time they're 17, 18 or 19 by younger better girls That is happening now. I know it's hard to even imagine that happening to KV because she so brilliant at 14. But the cycle has been set in motion.
I think it's important to remember for Anna and Sasha that they've already missed the opportunity for medals - Worlds 2020, GPF (and one GP), and Euros 2021 (at least.) So while the sport is changing I think that's important to keep in mind when looking at final totals when their careers are said and done.

EDIt: Same with Kamila and Daria. They've already lost JGPs, JGPF, and Junior Worlds, at least.
 

chasingneverland

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Do you notice no girls it's only guys that are challenging her in a dancing?

Come on man where is little Liza? I bet she could match Anya step for step.
I think it's funny that we call her little Liza (although I know where it originates from), as if she isn't 2 years older than Sasha and Anna and 4 years older than Kamila, Daria, and Maiia who will be her direct competitors next year. She's Alina's age who apparently is "old and doesn't have fun competing." She's Sofia's age who also apparently has "hit her peak due to circumstances and will never reach that level again."
 

chasingneverland

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
It's a different time now and you have to let the true juniors skate at Russian nationals. Dasha Maya and KV have gotten immeasurable experiences skating against great competition at the Russian cup stages this season. They don't need junior nationals nor should they be there. There's just too many girls now. And the fed does not want to stunt the growth of the 13 year old girls coming up. Winning junior nationals would do nothing for KVi Dasha or Maia. But it would be something huge for one of the Sofias or Veronika or whoever would win. This is how the Russian federation has kept the Russian ladies in Russian girls machine going the last 5 years or so. Everybody gets a piece of the pie. Then the best girls pull away from the others.

Now they were still having junior worlds this year the Sofias might not make that team and the other 3 girls we were talking about would be at junior nationals. But junior nationals as different as we both know and you can let the other less experience girls get some valuable experience against great competition.
Well seeing as Sofia's birthday is July 7 and she turned 13 July 7, 2020 she definitely wouldn't make the team as she's not age eligible for Junior Worlds - if it wasn't cancelled.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Yep! That Olympics drama lacked Russian ladies. It was all about Nancy/Tonya/Oksana.

It shows though that although the RusFed was furious with Butyrskaya, they were still fair in judging at RusNats, giving her spots for Europeans and Worlds for years to come. And we mustn't forget...Maria proved RusFed wrong ("You should quit, you are too old") when she was the first Russian Lady to win the Worlds in 1999. She was a hero after that...
Maria winning worlds in 1999 was fantastic. She was always swimming against the current in her career so to speak. I was so disappointed when she finished 4th at the 1998 Winter OlympicsI mean is there a worse spot in figure skating than 4th?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top