2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[lopsilceci]

You really think that - and the version of the GOT music that Trusova got - is outside the acceptable parameters of the team line???

Not sure I understand your question, sorry

I like both programs and felt they suited their skaters well, if that's what you're asking...

 

[dunffvanstorn]

Can someone please just spell out for me what side is being called out currently because I have no idea what’s going on? Is it the Eteri side or the Plushenko/Sasha/Medvedeva/everyone else side? Why is someone insinuating that Fluture makes these long “hate” posts because as far as I know that’s not the case. Their posts are very informative and if there is criticism it is constructive.

I never intended to refer to Fluture as being the poster who writes big/passionate/biased/hateful posts, on the contrary, I’ve always enjoyed Fluture’s posts. Fluture decided to assume it was about him/her, and what can I do?


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[dunffvanstorn]

Can someone please just spell out for me what side is being called out currently because I have no idea what’s going on? Is it the Eteri side or the Plushenko/Sasha/Medvedeva/everyone else side? Why is someone insinuating that Fluture makes these long “hate” posts because as far as I know that’s not the case. Their posts are very informative and if there is criticism it is constructive.

If someone is asking about my side, guess what, I don’t have one.


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[dunffvanstorn]

it wasn't even anything to do with the actual skating world, but some having a problem with others writing long posts.

Hey, the problem was never the length of the post per se, but how much time and energy some posters spend talking about hate/conspiracy theories and people who they don’t know. The length was used to make a point, and not to say “big posts are bad”. I posted a giant text like days ago here, why would I say that?


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[dunffvanstorn]

You can try new things while not destroying the piece.

The 3 issues i have with that program as explained other times here are:

1) The music editing -> 3 music cuts + effects sounds (why?) was a lot for a SHORT program, let alone they are taken from completely different parts of the musical, it could have been better as a free skate if anything, or just pick one of the three and focus on that one.

2) For a SHORT program it has 3 stops if you include the stare at the end with 3 seconds left. That's a lot.

3) The overall lack of flow, the steps sequence has like 4-5 waltz jumps to hide it but it's there, it looks messy. None of the positions are held, watch Satoko's SP on that same season, the emotions throughout the stsq and at the end of her she holds a lunge (and a huge series of twizzles right after), that is a moment.

Then yes the transitions are difficult, the contents are there, the lutz-loop was impressive and the spins are great. But it looks like quantity over quality in terms of skating for me.

If i have to mention another POTO program, i think Akiko Suzuki's POTO was above and beyond this despite not being as difficult.

Again, this is my opinion, you can rightfully disagree, now watchout all the russians being angry anyway.

I absolutely agree with you on this. But people prefer saying I hate Daniil over nothing. You transformed my feelings into objective criteria, thank you.


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[starlight97]

Everyone here in this forum can and should post at the length and frequency and the content they want, as long as they respect the guidelines.
That's what this forum is for.
If someone doesn't like another user's posts cause they are too long or too involved or whatever- then don't read them. No need to play hobby psychologist and steer up drama and make people feel like their long posts they invest energy in are unwelcome just because you personally don't enjoy reading them.
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@ lopsilceci totally agree about Alena's twilight program, I'm one of those who hated the idea when it was announced but then I saw how much she enjoys skating it. Her personality comes through way better than in her SP. That might be because, if you get to know Alena a bit theough interviews and such, you notice she isn't that ice princess angelic character at all haha. And by the end of the season it became my favorite program to watch

 

[Scott512]

No, sorry, they aren't that different except to hardcore fans. That wasn't at all what I meant. There is an Eteri style and because the girls are not encouraged to do their own thing or bring their own tastes to bear they are as alike as any product from a similar sport or entertainment line. And having Gleikhengauz (I will not join in the discussion on his ear for music) and the competent but undistinguished costumers the team seem to love doesn't help.

But that is not a problem - look at K-Pop from an outside point of view. As long as they fit the line, get the medals, and are able to be replaced when necessary, which they clearly are, it's not Tutberidze's problem. They may not win, the brutal truth is most of her - of any coach's - students don't, but she does.

I'm still a little puzzled as to where you think this outpouring of millions of dollars would come from if she moved? Even Raf - who coaches the US's biggest skater - is on a flat (high, but still not that high) fee. And going north, even Brian - who coaches the only current skater in the world who probably has multi-millions to his name - is on a higher flat fee. And neither federation is likely to want or be able to make up the difference you see???

Oh I think they are very different as talents and styles. But to each their own.

I also think Eteri would be very comfortable in the United States if it came to that for her. It probably won't happen.

Everyone here in this forum can and should post at the length and frequency and the content they want, as long as they respect the guidelines.
That's what this forum is for.
If someone doesn't like another user's posts cause they are too long or too involved or whatever- then don't read them. No need to play hobby psychologist and steer up drama and make people feel like their long posts they invest energy in are unwelcome just because you personally don't enjoy reading them.
----------
@ lopsilceci totally agree about Alena's twilight program, I'm one of those who hated the idea when it was announced but then I saw how much she enjoys skating it. Her personality comes through way better than in her SP. That might be because, if you get to know Alena a bit theough interviews and such, you notice she isn't that ice princess angelic character at all haha. And by the end of the season it became my favorite program to watch

Well explained and reasonable Starlight. If you don't like someone's style or the person themselves or the poster I should say because we don't really know each other here then don't read their posts. In over six years of posting here I have never put anyone on ignore. I never plan to I never want to I hope I never will.

 

[Fluture]

IFluture decided to assume it was about him/her, and what can I do?

In all honesty, I never decided to assume it was about me. I weighed in on the discussion in general terms and it got spun out of control, taking a personal touch that I never intended nor endorsed. I have absolutely no issue with you or your posts. I merely misunderstood your main point in your first two posts and didn’t find it to really come across. But thank you for clearing this up.

a TL;DR sentence at the end might be a good idea.

This is a good idea, thank you.

those 3As are just sublime she even manages to make the less perfect ones look great.

I agree. And it is remarkable how consistent her 3A was, considering that she only introduced it this season. She never even fell on it - worst was a step out at NHK. If we compare it to three other ultra-c jumpers - Rika, Sasha and Anna, we find that it took them one season at least to stabilize their first element.

Sasha kept falling on and URing the 4S all the way to Junior Worlds, Anna didn‘t even internationally land a clean quad with positive GOE in juniors (she did land some at Russian Cup Events and Nationals, though). And even if we make the point about that being quads - even if we don‘t consider Rika‘s generally inconsistent junior years, her 3A has only really become consistent this season. So, for Aliona to immediately be so confident with it, is a big deal.

Only flaw I can find is that she seems pretty prone to UR. The 3As are usually all borderline. I don‘t know what she can do to improve on that - maybe snap into the rotational position faster? Or rotate more tightly in the air. Compared to Rika‘s for example, her air position seems to be a bit lose still.

(as suggested ) TL;DR: Aliona‘s consistency on the 3A was remarkable but she tends to be prone to UR and should watch out for it.

 

[Fried]

(...)
waiting for Mr Trusov's explanation still (...)

Usually the Russian Eteri Group answers such statements with questions like "Do you want to dictate to Russian parents how they treat their children? Do you expect Russian parents to justify themselves to anyone? Russia is a free country, etc." I have to admit, however, that I am not surprised that these questions are not asked in this case.

 

[JazzUp]

Daniil's interview to Tatjana Flade from May/June issue of the IFS magazine is available online now: DANIIL GLEIKHENGAUZ FINDS SUCCESS BEHIND THE BOARDS

 

[starlight97]

Daniil's interview to Tatjana Flade from May/June issue of the IFS magazine is available online now: DANIIL GLEIKHENGAUZ FINDS SUCCESS BEHIND THE BOARDS

Lovely interview.
“If someone can’t do a quad, then we won’t force them and squeeze all the juice out of them. If they can’t do it, that means they have other strengths. They can improve their skating skills to the maximum, to make the elements that they can do ideal, and show the maximum of character in the programs. Each person has their strengths, and it is our job to help the athlete to fully discover their potential.”

Exactly the opposite of how people like to portray this camp but actually how I see it. They don't 'make' the girls go for these elements but rather it's the girls who see the others around them and want to step up. And if they don't he said it perfectly, they might have other strengths.
I wonder how they stand on Alena and a quad?
I've heard conflicting reports, at some point Alena said her current content was enough, at another point she said she was going to learn the 4S?

 

[flanker]

Lovely interview.
“If someone can’t do a quad, then we won’t force them and squeeze all the juice out of them. If they can’t do it, that means they have other strengths. They can improve their skating skills to the maximum, to make the elements that they can do ideal, and show the maximum of character in the programs. Each person has their strengths, and it is our job to help the athlete to fully discover their potential.”

Exactly the opposite of how people like to portray this camp but actually how I see it. They don't 'make' the girls go for these elements but rather it's the girls who see the others around them and want to step up. And if they don't he said it perfectly, they might have other strengths.
I wonder how they stand on Alena and a quad?
I've heard conflicting reports, at some point Alena said her current content was enough, at another point she said she was going to learn the 4S?

It can both be true, I think. I imagine there is a season when someone tries to learn a new element like quad, and if it works and there is a time, they continue with it. while before important competitions I think thečy mostly focus on the current content. I know Sasha has learned 4T during the 2017/18 season and Anna started to jump 4F also during the season, but probably most of the time the basic is probably set during the offseason.

As for Aliona, as far as I know she tried 4S, but the "current content was enough" could heve been meant e.g. like "during this season current content is enough" or something similar.

 

[JazzUp]

I wonder how they stand on Alena and a quad?

the quote you highlighted was actually about Alyona

 

[Scott512]

Daniil's interview to Tatjana Flade from May/June issue of the IFS magazine is available online now: DANIIL GLEIKHENGAUZ FINDS SUCCESS BEHIND THE BOARDS

Thank you for bringing a positive article do this sometimes controversial thread.

Lovely interview.
“If someone can’t do a quad, then we won’t force them and squeeze all the juice out of them. If they can’t do it, that means they have other strengths. They can improve their skating skills to the maximum, to make the elements that they can do ideal, and show the maximum of character in the programs. Each person has their strengths, and it is our job to help the athlete to fully discover their potential.”

Exactly the opposite of how people like to portray this camp but actually how I see it. They don't 'make' the girls go for these elements but rather it's the girls who see the others around them and want to step up. And if they don't he said it perfectly, they might have other strengths.
I wonder how they stand on Alena and a quad?
I've heard conflicting reports, at some point Alena said her current content was enough, at another point she said she was going to learn the 4S?

Absolutely the opposite of how the camp is often portrayed. Alina Zhenya and Polina never did triple axels and quads. Polina was a great jumper for a while and the other two are all time special and great.

 

[starlight97]

the quote you highlighted was actually about Alyona

It sure sounds like he has her in mind when saying that.
I really wouldn't like for her to risk her health on a 4 now, 1.5 years before the Olympics. She already has a 3A which is hard and risky enough.
But unfortunately the current climate in ladies skating might leave her no choice.

 

[Fried]

But unfortunately the current climate in ladies skating might leave her no choice.

And this is exactly where we have the smarter (and much more efficient) form of coercion.

 

[macy]

It sure sounds like he has her in mind when saying that.
I really wouldn't like for her to risk her health on a 4 now, 1.5 years before the Olympics. She already has a 3A which is hard and risky enough.
But unfortunately the current climate in ladies skating might leave her no choice.

i think she has tried a 4S before, but i believe she got a small injury (correct me if i'm wrong).

her 3A may be enough. we still have no idea how any quad girl's consistency will hold up in the next 2 years, who will get injured, who will lose their jumps due to puberty etc. look back on the discussion from a few pages ago on 2018 olympic predictions from fall 2016- they were very very wrong and that was even closer to that olympics than we are to the 2022 games. i think it's safe to assume based on history, what we think will happen most likely will not happen.

if Aliona keeps growing as an artist, keeps her consistency with her current jumps and stays uninjured, she may come out on top. you could say this about Alina too.

 

[starlight97]

if Aliona keeps growing as an artist, keeps her consistency with her current jumps and stays uninjured, she may come out on top. you could say this about Alina too.

It might. But at least right now, as soon as Anna or Sasha start landing a 3A for the SP, or they even allow quads for the short, that's it for her as far as being on top of the podiums goes. And you could really see this season that Alena is the most perfectionist and the most openly upset when she underperforms or doesn't achieve the goal.
In almost any training video I've seen of her she looks on the verge of tears and at some point she actually starts crying if she lands 4/5 3A and then falls on the 5th.
So I can't imagine her saying "I won't go for the quad, bronze is enough for me"

 

[macy]

It might. But at least right now, as soon as Anna or Sasha start landing a 3A for the SP, or they even allow quads for the short, that's it for her as far as being on top of the podiums goes. And you could really see this season that Alena is the most perfectionist and the most openly upset when she underperforms or doesn't achieve the goal.
In almost any training video I've seen of her she looks on the verge of tears and at some point she actually starts crying if she lands 4/5 3A and then falls on the 5th.
So I can't imagine her saying "I won't go for the quad, bronze is enough for me"

not necessarily. like i said, we don't know who will actually keep their quads. Anna or Sasha might get a 3A, but how will their other jumps fare as they grow? we just don't know.

i'm sure she does want a quad, but for some reason it doesn't work for her, i think her 3As will pull her through. all it would take are falls and mistakes from the others (like this last season) and Aliona to go clean, which we have seen she is very good at.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

And.......what if a little break away from skating makes some of them even stronger with the “quad side” of the force??!?!?

We just don’t know what to expect :hpull: