2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Skatesocs]

Also important, "rhythmic knee action" does not mean "deep knees".

And I guess I should've been clearer. It's not the depth of edges/deep knees I was talking about, but the lack of soft knees and rhythmic action. I did mention Asada, not someone known for deep edges, but definitely the flow she maintained across the ice, the way she so quickly changed direction and edge with the music, her speed variance. Another point is how lacking in glide Eteri skaters are, which is partly why they are unable to transfer from one movement to another with ease. It's laboured. Like Nathan Chen's actually, even though of course he has much better SS and deep edges, his weight transfer is often off, and he lacks good glide, making him look so heavy...

 

[Arbitrary]

Arina Parsegova (8) reported to be transferred from TUT-camp to PLU-camp.
Another one bites the ice...

https://www.sport-express.ru/figure...e-i-pereshla-v-akademiyu-plyuschenko-1684805/

 

[Skatesocs]

? Why is an eight year old news...

 

[Fried]

Haven't you noticed that skaters are unimportant and basically all about TT vs. AoP?

 

[Mawwerg]

I think it's expected transfer.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Opened link, was disappointed it wasn't Dralion.

ETA: and then you even give a reason for why I wouldn't want Chan there lol

Hah, yeah, that series of turns is definitely not the most artistic, it was just to show how someone can do constant turns with deep knees (which Baron Vladimir said was an "impossibility") and even on one foot. It does have some semblance of a rhythm at least. For a more rhythmic example of difficult turning and one-foot skating, one of my favorites has always been this lead up to a 3Axel from Jeremy Abbott. Hanyu gets a lot of credit for doing counter turn into 3Axel, but Abbott's entrance has more natural flow and musicality. Simply doing a counter turn into 3Axel for the sake of it, is an example of something that's annoying and artificial about modern skating, and sadly Hanyu just throws that same entrance into his programs all the time now (the same as other skaters do flashy movements into or out of jumps these days, for no artistically relevant reason, and repeated across programs). It also tends to detract from the quality of the jump itself, making it a bit off axis, or smaller, or not perfectly rotated in the air.

 

[Skatesocs]

Hah, yeah, that series of turns is definitely not the most artistic, it was just to show how someone can do constant turns with deep knees (which Baron Vladimir said was an "impossibility") and even on one foot. It does have some semblance of a rhythm at least. For a more rhythmic example of difficult turning and one-foot skating, one of my favorites has always been this lead up to a 3Axel from Jeremy Abbott. Hanyu gets a lot of credit for doing counter turn into 3Axel, but Abbott's entrance has more natural flow and musicality. Simply doing a counter turn into 3Axel for the sake of it, is an example of something that's annoying and artificial about modern skating, and sadly Hanyu just throws that same entrance into his programs all the time now (the same as other skaters do flashy movements into or out of jumps these days, for no artistically relevant reason, and repeated across programs). It also tends to detract from the quality of the jump itself, making it a bit off axis, or smaller, or not perfectly rotated in the air.

I agree with every word. I prefer big, airy jumps to constant transitions. Give me a well-paced program with well done spins and big jumps, strong speed, and I'm happy.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Hah, yeah, that series of turns is definitely not the most artistic, it was just to show how someone can do constant turns with deep knees (which Baron Vladimir said was an "impossibility") and even on one foot. It does have some semblance of a rhythm at least.

I didn't mean to say it is imposible to show any of rhythmic knee action during multidirectional and one foot skating, my point was that is impossible to show the same level and frequency of it. While i agree your examples can be good examples of rhythmic knee actions (or deep knees) i wouldn't call them difficult and put them in the category of difficult steps and turns. I also disagree that higher number of transition is pointless. It can be pointless in regard of being constantly or highly related to every beat of the music, it certanly not pointless to showcase your skating ability. Simple look at SS criteria is telling you that doing multiple steps and turns, multi directional skating and one foot skating satisfies more criteria than doing rhyhmic knee action and demonstration of deeper knee and 'posture' (which is even not criteria of SS). It is really a simple math.

 

[Skatesocs]

How is that 3A entrance not difficult?

It actually looks like he even does minimum pre-rotation into the jump, despite transitions.

It's not really any sort of point you're making if you say it's easier to show rhythm with an easier step like a crossover. You tried to make it sound like Shcherbackova's poor knees were simply because of a "different style", which is simply not the case. You can maybe say she loses stamina and therefore rhythm as the program progresses, but she never shows that quality at any point during the performance. Not even during step sequences.

Cluttering meh steps just shows your ability to clutter meh steps. Not any skating ability. You can maybe give some credit for any difficult clusters they do in the transition score, but that's it, not any credit for quality usually.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Hanyu move is difficult as entrance of the jump. Its not difficult per se, as difficult turn or transition from one required element toward another.
And i dont think Shcherbakova has poor knees at all (only not the best ones). I was saying that her point of skating is not to showcase how deep knees she has, but some other things written in the criteria.

 

[Skatesocs]

Then you missed the earlier post I made about my issue not being with "deep knees" in the first place...

And you said "[poster's] examples are good examples of rhythmic knee action i wouldn't call them difficult" and I fail to see how Chan's and Abbott's one foot clusters aren't difficult.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

They are not that difficult in relation of how long the classter is, or how much time they spent on one foot. Cause this is a Russian ladies skating thread you can see how much time Zagitova spent on one foot comparing to Abbot. You can use the stopwatch too. And we can talk about SS topic in general in another tread.

 

[Pantsu]

Plyushchenko is working on the new program
https://www.instagram.com/p/CBxSSJID0aX/

 

[Vemvane]

Plyushchenko is working on the new program
https://www.instagram.com/p/CBxSSJID0aX/

Who is the programme for, does he say? (I am amused by the potential irony of the refrain, if he intends it for one of the girls who has transferred to his school over this off season.)

 

[dunffvanstorn]

Inaccurate. Crossovers are hardly the only way to show rhythmic knee action (ex: this series of turns is literally a series of "knee action"), and it's possible to have "speed and motion" and "long lines and elegance" in the same program. The example you tried to use is way offbase too, as Lambiel didn't have particularly long lines, and used more body motion in his skating than Joubert. Long lines and elegance aren't exactly tied to skating skills to begin with; just look at Caroline Zhang for an example.

It would be relatively accurate to say it's not possible to have a program consisting mainly of long edges and, at the same time, have a program consisting of constant steps and turns. However, that doesn't mean it's not possible to see how someone is lacking in quality, just because they are doing constant steps and turns. The depth and security of the edges, the ability to transfer between movements, the ability to move across the ice with proper posture and usage of the blade and knee - all of this can be seen. You can also do deep knee bend while doing many of the transitions that Eteri skaters try to do. Her skaters simply aren't taught to do it or don't have the ability.

People are always doing crossovers in programs anyway. They are not magically extinct just because someone like Eteri is trying to clutter the programs with nonsense. Those times in the programs where the crossovers are happening, the skater's ability with that movement can still be seen. Crossovers have become sadly demonized in this recent era of skating, and it's interesting that you basically try write them off as unimportant. You tried to make it sound like your argument was "both ways to demonstrate skating skills are equally valuable", but in actuality your argument just gives skaters a free pass if you consider them to be doing more transitions. Since, to you, doing more transitions inherently means they should be excluded from other considerations.

Also important, "rhythmic knee action" does not mean "deep knees". One of the reasons why the Eteri school of ice skating is so problematic, is because many of the movements in those programs DON'T have rhythm to them. They are just transitions thrown in for the sake of it. It's easier to do transitions like that with no other purpose, with no specific dance-like timing and meaning behind them, no precise musicality. I had a similar problem with Patrick Chan and how his PCS got overscored - being able to show deep edges and ability to gain efficient power across the ice is NOT rhythm. You can do all the "turns, multi-directional skating, and one-foot skating" you want, but that doesn't mean you are showing complete or satisfying skating. With so many of the Eteri programs, the skater is lacking the depth of edge/knee, AND the rhythm, AND the posture, AND the bigger artistic purpose. This overall kind of skating being so rewarded and normalized is a HUGE problem (for over a decade now, ugh, we've been stuck here basically ever since Evan Lysacek's despicable 2010 victory). The bad judging and the narrowness of the scoring system, and people taking some things written on paper too literally, has perpetuated this hellish alternate-reality state of figure skating that needs to be fixed.

Thank you [emoji1319][emoji1319][emoji1319][emoji1319]


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[dunffvanstorn]

Plyushchenko is working on the new program
https://www.instagram.com/p/CBxSSJID0aX/

That’s actually quite good, I must say.


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[Skatesocs]

They are not that difficult in relation of how long the classter is, or how much time they spent on one foot. Cause this is a Russian ladies skating thread you can see how much time Zagitova spent on one foot comparing to Abbot. You can use the stopwatch too. And we can talk about SS topic in general in another tread.

I don't want to debate this anymore.

 

[Pantsu]

Who is the programme for, does he say? (I am amused by the potential irony of the refrain, if he intends it for one of the girls who has transferred to his school over this off season.)

He doesn't say, but we can take a guess
Today is Trusova's birthday. I don't think it is for Stasya and other girls are not age eligible even for JGP, if i am not mistaken

 

[Scott512]

Let’s wait with handing out the medals for ‘the best skater in the world’. At the moment, Kamila is still nothing. Yes, she won junior worlds, but that doesn’t mean anything. Who can guarantee that she won’t end up like Polina Tsurskaya? Ok, Polina had to withdraw from junior worlds, but then again she had junior Olympics she won, and same as Kamila she also won all her competitions in her first junior season except of senior nationals. And then .... well, we know what happened. Let’s celebrate ‘the best skater in the world’ after her first senior season.

Its Aluona! Then Kamila.

But in all seriousness I just hope we have a season on all levels. I think the season is in great doubt.

True, I guess we’ll see Kamila, Daria, Maia at RusNats this year! would be interesting to see them go up against all other girls, that’s going to be one exciting competition, that for sure.

It's going to be epic wild and exciting! Making the top 10 will be a great achievement for many of the girls.

 

[Arbitrary]

Its Aluona! Then Kamila.

But in all seriousness I just hope we have a season on all levels. I think the season is in great doubt.


It's going to be epic wild and exciting! Making the top 10 will be a great achievement for many of the girls.

We may expect a lot of broken skates, glass in boots and backyard fistfights.
The Great Undercarpet Dogfight (C) Sir W. Ch.