2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[moriel]

It so unsettling to witness this. I learned through my own mistakes that quitting is almost never the answer to anything. Harder work is the answer, even you have to fail many times.
As for the alternatives - their whole life was dedicated to figure skating. So how many viable alternatives are out there for them? I thought that all of them are going to become coaches once they retire.

I sort of disagree about harder work being always the answer.
There are always some physical and mental limits that you cannot really overcome, and realising this early in your way and moving on to something more suitable is best.
Quitting is not answer, but being objective about your own prospects is always the answer.

Their whole life is actually a very small timespan - considering people retire at 60, those girls have a whole 40-45 years of productive work ahead.
FS coaching is not that good of a career in russia - if you are not some genius, and if you dont have a huge bag of medals and sponsorships, you may as well end up working as a base level coach somewhere in the regions for a fairly small wage. Not every retired russian skater becomes Tarasova, Eteri, or Plushenko. Most don't.

For young folks, specially, the most viable alternative imo is to quit high performance FS while they are still young, catch up with their studies, and pursue any career they want.
And the best way to do it is to not keep working harder to achieve something that has very slim chances to happen.

fyi, quite a few of my favs quit early, and while I will miss them and would love to see them develop, I don't see trying harder as a good thing for them.

 

[Edwin]

The talent pool in Russia is so large, one season w/o significant results and you are lost, overtaken, redundant, out.

Has Kseniya Sinitsyna been sighted on ice?

Will Samodurova make a successful comeback?

The expected lack of a meaningful international season will make things even more complicated. When ISU cancels the GP, most federations their CS events, the whole purpose of ranking lists and earning points gets lost for the large number of Russian skaters.

Young skaters cannot make an entrance, older skaters need to hang on without knowing it will really be worth their continued effort, those that recently retired still occupy valuable ranks, it's a mess that ISU needs to resolve to give those aiming for an Olympic start some perspective.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

I sort of disagree about harder work being always the answer.
There are always some physical and mental limits that you cannot really overcome, and realising this early in your way and moving on to something more suitable is best.
Quitting is not answer, but being objective about your own prospects is always the answer.

Their whole life is actually a very small timespan - considering people retire at 60, those girls have a whole 40-45 years of productive work ahead.
FS coaching is not that good of a career in russia - if you are not some genius, and if you dont have a huge bag of medals and sponsorships, you may as well end up working as a base level coach somewhere in the regions for a fairly small wage. Not every retired russian skater becomes Tarasova, Eteri, or Plushenko. Most don't.

For young folks, specially, the most viable alternative imo is to quit high performance FS while they are still young, catch up with their studies, and pursue any career they want.
And the best way to do it is to not keep working harder to achieve something that has very slim chances to happen.

fyi, quite a few of my favs quit early, and while I will miss them and would love to see them develop, I don't see trying harder as a good thing for them.

Well, in such cases one should ask himself/herself what he/she REALLY wants to achieve in life - dreams, aspirations, goals.
It is a pity that skaters with textbook technique like Tsurskaya and Tarakanova have retired so early on. Maybe they were too tired of being constantly underscored.

 

[dunffvanstorn]

Excuse me, that doesn't apply to me now, does it?
I simply realized that a serious, sincere and above all realistic discussion with the supporters of a certain coach is impossible. Therefore, for once, I simply went to their level of argument.

No! I was agreeing with you about the other poster.

 

[lopsilceci]

Shrug, the highest view count roller skating performance video I can find is by Sofia Bogdanova with 63 million views( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPsXK4NkXTc ), even Olympic figure skating doesn't even come close.

Figure skating and everything with ice/snow(winter sports) in general is quite niche and roller skating has an audience in countries that would never even consider watching the winter olympics for example.

But that is freestyle slalom, it's very different, it's basically doing tricks.
I suppose what Tarakanova is going to do is the kind of roller skating that is very similar to figure skating. And that one is definitely not more popular than the ice version.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Good news! Kanysheva has returned (even though she is an ice dancer now):
https://m.sports.ru/figure-skating/1087399735.html

 

[colormyworld240]

I wonder If someone pressures these girls to switch or to retire? All of the former juniors - Tarusina, Kanysheva, Vasilieva and Tarakanova and also Tsurskaya and Sotskova?

I think the pressure these girls have to retire comes from themselves, and to a lesser extent from their families. Not everybody wants to take part in the "fight to death" that is Russian ladies figure skating right now. In a field this dense, it's smart to be realistic about your prospects, what else you want to accomplish in your life, etc. Some skaters love just being on the ice, others are only skating because they want to win an Olympic medal.

For the skaters skating because they love it, they have to think about the direction they're headed; not everyone can spend all their time on a hobby due to finances, planning for the future, etc. For the skaters who have the Olympics as their biggest motivator in the sport, they have to consider how realistic that is. They have to weigh that against all the other things; only 3 girls will be selected.

While these girls have dedicated a lot of their time to the sport, it's still a very small portion of their lives and they may have other dreams. Maria went to university before she even retired, Polina is in university now. Alena has said that she does not wish to have a long career, she too wants to focus on school (post Olympics?).

It's just any other child who takes up a hobby when they're young; whether it's learning a musical instrument, being in theatre, taking up a sport, etc. Most people quit (at least complete dedication) and move onto other things before they're adults usually to focus on a sustainable future. Figure skating is no different.

 

[Scott512]

Only several more experienced skaters are now left - Medvedeva, Tuktamysheva, Gubanova, Sakhanovich and to a certain extend Samodurova and Konstantinova.
And so many are now gone (in one way or another) Tsurskaya, Tarakanova, Kanysheva, Sotskova, Vasilieva, Tarusina, Lipnitskaya, Sotnikova, Pogorilaya, Radionova...
So sad for Anastasiya Tarakanova. She was a great skater and she did not have an excessive pre-rotation. I really wish she became a senior in the 2019-2020 season. Then she would have had a GP event for sure, right? Just like Samodurova? And Sinytsina is going to have, right?
(How many top figure skaters are left on the scene for the next season? There are Kostornaya, Shcherbakova, Trusova, Zagitova, Tuktamysheva, Medvedeva, Sinytsina, Samodurova, Konstantinova, Valieva, Usachyova, Maya, Samodelkina, Frolova, Akatieva, Zhilina, Gubanova, Sakhanovich...)
Edit: I added Frolova to the list.

Do one have to answer purely rhetorical questions? I do not think so. You looked up the right page in Sasha's FF and read the interview and didn't pay attention to when it was published. Unbelievable!


Oh yes, but of course Sasha has the very best better parents, the future parents of a World and Olympic Champion and of the woman who was the first to land Quad-Toeloop, Quad-Lutz, Quad-Flip and Quad-Rittberger in competition. And of course they will be the parents of the first skater who left Eteri and improved as a result.

Yes Sasha will be the first to leave the great coach and not have her scores suffer.

 

[colormyworld240]

TSL has that wrong as far as Anna's father is concerned. He is my new favorite skating parent:

"If Anya finishes her career at 17, then of course I will be upset. Besides the fact that she is a quad jumper, she is also an artist, revealing the images is her strong point. And it’s just to early to show some artistic images at the age of 17, and even 20. It will be an unfinished song, no matter what medals she will collect by that time."

https://fs-gossips.com/we-dont-shar...cs-interview-with-anna-shcherbakovas-parents/

Anna's mother feels differently, I believe, but I am Team Stanislav

I agree that "Oh, the parents think it's OK" is not the beginning and end of any story, because sadly we know that parents do not always have their child's best interests at heart. I do not believe that bad intent, for Anna's parents, for Sasha's parents, or any other parents, can be presumed however.

ETA: And I had not seen your second post when I was typing this, so now I understand your intent and apologize if this post is superfluous.

I think the only "team" to be on is the one that has Anna's best interests at heart, and that one would also understand that Anna can change her mind whenever.

If Anna wants to have a long career, good for her. If she decides she wants quit tomorrow, then that's also good for her. Fans (and I'm sure also people close to the skaters) have this mentality that skaters should have these long competitive careers, which is extremely selfish. AFAIK, Anna has not specified how long she wants to skate for, and maybe she doesn't even know yet.

The point is, skaters can change their minds whenever they want, and there's nothing wrong with deciding to pursue something other than being a competitive figure skater. Anna's father may want to her to have a career past 18, and her mother may want the opposite - though I haven't read that interview - but neither is better than the other. It was the same when Nathan decided he was going to Yale; so many people complained that it was wasting his FS potential. However, skaters don't exist for the purpose of earning medals or providing beautiful artistic performances for their parents/fans/countries for x amount of time.

As Anna's fan, I have followed her career closely since she was a novice. There was an interview sometime ago from Anna herself, where she said her parents, who are much more academically inclined, didn't want her to have any figure skating career at all. They actually only put her in skating lessons as a hobby, and when she started to become more competitive, they actually suggested that she shouldn't continue, but she made a strong case for herself to pursue her own dream. Ultimately, her parents went with what she wanted, and I hope they will support her regardless of how long she decides to skate for in the future.

My apologies for this rant, but this is why I have an issue with the whole "they retired early and that's a shame" argument. Maybe if it was against the skaters' wishes, but there's nothing wrong with not wanting that, either. There is certainly no shame in that and does not diminish any of the skaters' accomplishments.

 

[Amei]

Her emotional ups and downs hurt her progress. But to see Nastya retire at 16 is unreal. I've never seen such a naturally talented girl retire at this age. Why not just change countries even if it takes a year or two?

Changing countries isn't super easy, depending on the country there can be residential requirements which may not be easy to do with the pandemic situation, and without a wealthy sponsor to pay she and her parents would have to pay for her training; she was asking fans for money to support her training last year when she was on the main Junior national team for Russia so I don't think it's within her parents scope to fully pay for her training.

Only several more experienced skaters are now left - Medvedeva, Tuktamysheva, Gubanova, Sakhanovich and to a certain extend Samodurova and Konstantinova.

Zagitova is an experienced skater, she's competed longer at the International senior level than both Samodurova and Gubanova. And frankly domestic competitions in Russia appear more difficult than most of the international competitions, so even if a skater hasn't competed much internationally the relatively "new" senior skaters coming out of Russia are pretty well-seasoned having survived to make it out of the domestic competitions

So sad for Anastasiya Tarakanova. She was a great skater and she did not have an excessive pre-rotation. I really wish she became a senior in the 2019-2020 season. Then she would have had a GP event for sure, right? Just like Samodurova? And Sinytsina is going to have, right?

I believe the issue was that her SB was not in the top 24 so she wasn't guaranteed a spot. Plus, she was named to the main Junior national team, if she had turned senior she was unlikely to be named on either senior team because of the other past seniors that were going to be on the team or the 3 new seniors that based on results would have been placed on the team ahead of Tarakanova.

 

[el henry]

whole post

I am in complete agreement that the skater should decide the trajectory. I have no doubt that both Anna's parents are "Team Anna" (and I found the interview fascinating, if you are her fan, I would recommend it.)

If a skater really wants to just skate for two or three years as a senior, give it up and say good bye and God bless, then good for them:thumbsup:

If a skater wants to stay skating for a good long time, because they feel they have more to give to the sport, then good for them:thumbsup:

And Nathan Chen is the perfect example that you can do both, if that is what you want to do. You can skate at the highest levels, and study at the most prestigious universities, at the same time. There is no *need* to cram skating into a few short years just because you want to study at a university.

I would cut fans a little bit of a slack though. I always want what my favorite skater wants: where they skate, how they skate, who coaches them, if my skater likes it, I like it:agree: But as a fan, I can't help wanting to see my fav skaters on the ice, even if I fully support whatever their life decisions are:yes:

 

[colormyworld240]

I am in complete agreement that the skater should decide the trajectory. I have no doubt that both Anna's parents are "Team Anna" (and I found the interview fascinating, if you are her fan, I would recommend it.)

If a skater really wants to just skate for two or three years as a senior, give it up and say good bye and God bless, then good for them:thumbsup:

If a skater wants to stay skating for a good long time, because they feel they have more to give to the sport, then good for them:thumbsup:

And Nathan Chen is the perfect example that you can do both, if that is what you want to do. You can skate at the highest levels, and study at the most prestigious universities, at the same time. There is no *need* to cram skating into a few short years just because you want to study at a university.

I would cut fans a little bit of a slack though. I always want what my favorite skater wants: where they skate, how they skate, who coaches them, if my skater likes it, I like it:agree: But as a fan, I can't help wanting to see my fav skaters on the ice, even if I fully support whatever their life decisions are:yes:

This is going off topic, but Nathan Chen is one case in a million. I wouldn't say that anyone can do both, in fact it would be impossible for most people. This depends on the school and program, but when I was studying I had over 30 hours of classes and labs a week, spread over early morning to late evening. But even with a more relaxed course schedule, many students have different priorities and responsibilities. Part time jobs, extracurricular activities, internships, etc. This is especially important to those who aren't just studying at university only to learn, but also building their resume towards a competitive career path. That experience can only be built with time which is finite. And of course a flexible coach and personalized ice time would be required and most people cannot afford that, especially compared to the Russian state system where coaching, choreography, and ice time are relatively inexpensive but runs on a schedule that would not fit into most university course loads.

But to bring this back to the Russian ladies, the field is very dense and extremely competitive. I personally don't believe there is any skater who can study full time in a non-sports related area and still be competitive ie. be chosen for Euros, Worlds, Olympics. Imo, this competition is the reason so many skaters have chosen to pursue something else, which is perfectly fine.

 

[Happy Skates]

My apologies for this rant, but this is why I have an issue with the whole "they retired early and that's a shame" argument. Maybe if it was against the skaters' wishes, but there's nothing wrong with not wanting that, either. There is certainly no shame in that and does not diminish any of the skaters' accomplishments.

So much this! longevity is a virtue, but its not the only virtue. I think Yulia had a bigger impact on the sport than many with longevity - but thats besides the point. It is so hard these days to earn good money through skating, even for the top of the top skaters (and yes of course money is not everyone's goal, I'm aware of that). Sometimes, a skater will have a nice career but then move on to another career goal. And even though its never too late to change careers, the earlier you start is always the better.

A good example of this is Polina Tsurskaya. Huge talent, sad that she didn't go further, but ultimately it became clear that the pool at the top of Russian ladies was just too large and she couldn't break through. Even though its sad for fans not to see her anymore, I'd say the situation is anything but tragic. Now she gets to go abroad for school, something that probably wouldn't have happened had she kept skating, and has a fresh start along with everyone else her age. And on top of that, she can say she was a Youth Olympic and JGPF Champion!

And Nathan Chen is the perfect example that you can do both, if that is what you want to do. You can skate at the highest levels, and study at the most prestigious universities, at the same time. There is no *need* to cram skating into a few short years just because you want to study at a university.

Unfortunately, not everyone has the sponsors to make the financing of this plan work. Maybe Anna could make it work because of her sponsors, but, colormyworld240 made a good point about how although you can skate and take classes at the same time, skating and getting the full college/career-prep experience is a different thing entirely. So for a lot of skaters, a decision simply has to be made. Not between university and skating, but between skating and fully committing to a career/career-prep.

 

[Scott512]

Changing countries isn't super easy, depending on the country there can be residential requirements which may not be easy to do with the pandemic situation, and without a wealthy sponsor to pay she and her parents would have to pay for her training; she was asking fans for money to support her training last year when she was on the main Junior national team for Russia so I don't think it's within her parents scope to fully pay for her training.



Zagitova is an experienced skater, she's competed longer at the International senior level than both Samodurova and Gubanova. And frankly domestic competitions in Russia appear more difficult than most of the international competitions, so even if a skater hasn't competed much internationally the relatively "new" senior skaters coming out of Russia are pretty well-seasoned having survived to make it out of the domestic competitions




I believe the issue was that her SB was not in the top 24 so she wasn't guaranteed a spot. Plus, she was named to the main Junior national team, if she had turned senior she was unlikely to be named on either senior team because of the other past seniors that were going to be on the team or the 3 new seniors that based on results would have been placed on the team ahead of Tarakanova.

Changing countries is not easy by any means and the Russian Federation has made it harder. But it's better thatm Nastya T skate for Belarus or Ukraine or Lithuania than not skate at all when you have the skill level she has. She has an innate ability that cannot be taught. But it's her desire has left her through frustration an injury then that's different. That s sports and that is life.

 

[Scott512]

I think the only "team" to be on is the one that has Anna's best interests at heart, and that one would also understand that Anna can change her mind whenever.

If Anna wants to have a long career, good for her. If she decides she wants quit tomorrow, then that's also good for her. Fans (and I'm sure also people close to the skaters) have this mentality that skaters should have these long competitive careers, which is extremely selfish. AFAIK, Anna has not specified how long she wants to skate for, and maybe she doesn't even know yet.

The point is, skaters can change their minds whenever they want, and there's nothing wrong with deciding to pursue something other than being a competitive figure skater. Anna's father may want to her to have a career past 18, and her mother may want the opposite - though I haven't read that interview - but neither is better than the other. It was the same when Nathan decided he was going to Yale; so many people complained that it was wasting his FS potential. However, skaters don't exist for the purpose of earning medals or providing beautiful artistic performances for their parents/fans/countries for x amount of time.

As Anna's fan, I have followed her career closely since she was a novice. There was an interview sometime ago from Anna herself, where she said her parents, who are much more academically inclined, didn't want her to have any figure skating career at all. They actually only put her in skating lessons as a hobby, and when she started to become more competitive, they actually suggested that she shouldn't continue, but she made a strong case for herself to pursue her own dream. Ultimately, her parents went with what she wanted, and I hope they will support her regardless of how long she decides to skate for in the future.

My apologies for this rant, but this is why I have an issue with the whole "they retired early and that's a shame" argument. Maybe if it was against the skaters' wishes, but there's nothing wrong with not wanting that, either. There is certainly no shame in that and does not diminish any of the skaters' accomplishments.

No apology needed.

Anna is unfazed by everything around her she just does her thing and moves on. She is very much like Alina in that aspect. I think she can have a long career if she stays healthy and wants it. But maybe it's different for girls and Russian girls because maybe once they get to their late teens or early twenties or thinking about getting married or going to University like Maria and Polina and others. To me Anna is a blessing to the sport she really is like a prima ballerina come to life in skates. Her parents and sisters are lucky to have her as is the skating world. She is not rattled by the pressure I would not be surprised to see her win her third straight Russian Nationals this season or whatever season we have.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Zagitova is an experienced skater, she's competed longer at the International senior level than both Samodurova and Gubanova. And frankly domestic competitions in Russia appear more difficult than most of the international competitions, so even if a skater hasn't competed much internationally the relatively "new" senior skaters coming out of Russia are pretty well-seasoned having survived to make it out of the domestic competitions.

Yes, of course, Zagitova too. I also omitted Frolova, but then I added her to another list.
Does it mean that now Kostornaya, Shcherbakova, Trusova, Zagitova, Tuktamysheva, Medvedeva, Sinytsina, Samodurova and Gulyakova all have 2 GP spots? There are, of course, Konstantinova, Sakhanovich and Gubanova that have a chance to get a spot too? I cannot think of any other top Russian ladies now that so many of them have retired or switched sports.
In the junior field there are still Valieva, Usachyova, Maya, Frolova and Samodelkina.
In the novice there are Akatieva and Zhilina. (Petrosyan?)

 

[Arbitrary]

In his recent interview Plushenko's compared Sasha Trusova to a bull terrier.
Fearless is it is...

I'm only afraid the bull terriers aren't especially long living dogs...

 

[Fried]

In his recent interview Plushenko's compared Sasha Trusova to a bull terrier.
Fearless is it is...

Exactly! That's it! This is the perfect idea for Sasha's future free program!
https://youtu.be/FJfOwCFvZHs

I'm only afraid the bull terriers aren't especially long living dogs...

However, beforehand they ensure that their opponents have a much shorter life in battle.

 

[Resa]

In angels akademy stories there is a snippet with sasha and plushenko working on choreography (I don't know how to link it). The music played there was also slow but not Ne me quitte pas, so maybe she has two programs with slow music this year?

 

[GINO]

In angels akademy stories there is a snippet with sasha and plushenko working on choreography (I don't know how to link it). The music played there was also slow but not Ne me quitte pas, so maybe she has two programs with slow music this year?

I don't see Sasha in angels stories. If there was music for the program, this information would instantly spread to fan groups(but everything looks quiet)