2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Shayuki]

I don't know why there is so much praise for the lutz-loop.

Yes it is difficult but the loop looks under here and the edge was not outside.

All Shcherbakova's jumps looked smaller here, puberty is starting to hit, she is taller now.

I wonder if she is still going for the quads in the free.

Because a -3Lo combo is only worthwhile if it's very stable and steady, so doing it in test skates signifies confidence.

Of course this specific -3Lo combo was nowhere near Anna's best.

 

[klena]

https://rsport.ria.ru/amp/20200912/kostornaya-1577145219.html?__twitter_impression=true

Kostornaya commented on Tutberidze's reaction to her departure to Plushenko

MOSCOW, September 12 - RIA Novosti, Anatoly Samokhvalov. The 2020 European champion in women's single skating Alena Kostornaya said

.....
Speaking about working in the Tutberidze group, Kostornaya noted that "people like me, Anya Shcherbakova, Kamila Valieva cannot skate with children born in 2010". "The girls are adults. I told the coaches that there are already 8 of us, a crazy pace in training, and take children who are not used to it there (wrong). They went out and did not understand what to do. It annoyed me. I said , which is so very inconvenient. But there was no reaction. I decided to leave on July 17, before the second training session, "said Kostornaya.
.....

OMG no wonder Eteri kicked her out

 

[flanker]

Well then i recommend a rewatch on the combo, the edge and toe pick and the landing of that 3lo.

https://youtu.be/BUIC1FyL0QI?t=321

https://i.postimg.cc/ZnvFL1FM/shcherbakova-2.png
https://i.postimg.cc/Gtm6hhRs/shcherbakova.png

3ltz-3lo is the most difficult 3-3 without the 3a yes, however 3ltz(!)-3lo< is not.

And like i said, you can say there were other underrotated combos like Medvedeva's 3lo-3t also looked under, but there were clean combos too like Trusova's lutz-toe was clean.

Again not that it matters all that much since no scoring and still early in the season.

Come on, I repeat it to you, now directly, when you say:

But rather when you say "props for Shcherbakova's lutz-loop" and then "Kostornaya's jumps didn't look great"

than you, well, do not say the truth. I didn't say that

 

[Shayuki]

Yes it has. However, I found this to be a reasonable opinion too, if it's not convenient it's not. So Aliona found something more suitable.
Anyway, we were talking about how in the post Eteri made it sound as if Aliona was the biggest diva ever, but of course it wouldn't be her without diss.

I just mean that if Kostornaya doesn't like how the group does things(and always has done things) she can go find a group that does things in a way that suits her, which she did.

I guess the main issue there is fans misunderstanding what Tutberidze was saying. Although Eteri of course would preferably not comment on the skaters leaving, I guess that one's been a lost cause for a while.

 

[plushyfan]

OMG no wonder Eteri kicked her out

really?

 

[flanker]

Because a -3Lo combo is only worthwhile if it's very stable and steady, so doing it in test skates signifies confidence.

Of course this specific -3Lo combo was nowhere near Anna's best.

Nor her worst, on the other hand.

 

[Tolstoj]

Come on, I repeat it to you, now directly, when you say:

But rather when you say "props for Shcherbakova's lutz-loop" and then "Kostornaya's jumps didn't look great"

than you, well, do not say the truth. I didn't say that

Well i just quoted comments i read here and the other thread, bashing on Kostornaya and praises for Shcherbakova except both made mistakes.

And yet Kostornaya's 3t in the combo was actually clean and the 2a also was higher and longer than Shcherbakova.

I don't think you understand that underrotation and change of edge (with the negative GOE they usually come from these calls) is overall a bigger mistake than negative goe for a fully rotated jump on a lean if that is a -1 or -2.

 

[fabienne1996]

OMG no wonder Eteri kicked her out

Are you for real? [emoji2356]Eteri didnt kick her out you should have gotten that information already, alyona left as she talks about it in the interwiev, which also shows that no alyona didnot have the plan to leave in may, it was a on the spot decision to talk to rozanov eho told her to think about it for a few days, which were probably the day/days seh didnt come to training, after which she then decided to change coaches..

Gesendet von meinem SM-T813 mit Tapatalk

 

[Shayuki]

Well i just quoted comments i read here and the other thread, bashing on Kostornaya and praises for Shcherbakova except both made mistakes.

And yet Kostornaya's 3t in the combo was actually clean and the 2a also was higher and longer than Shcherbakova.

Kostornaya's were a lot more wobbly, I'd say. While all her jumps probably were clean they weren't very confident and don't make me think that she can skate every competition clean, for example.

I'd hope a skater with 3A would have a high 2A... What one thinks when watching that is "where's the 3A?" rather than "what a big 2A", something I'm sure you're well aware of.


In general, the focus on the individual jumping elements is interesting as that's just about the least important thing I personally was looking at. In test skates, the only thing that really matters is that the skater's not falling or being visibly unstable. Really curious about what they did differently with Trusova and Kostornaya. I guess Kostornaya did have a pretty hasty coaching change and will require some time.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Anya's 3Lz+3Lo was UR and the lutz edge was flat at best. That's a fact. Does that take away from the fact that she's a great skater? No. Does that somehow mean that she's worse than Aliona? Definitely not. Please stop trying to pick a fight over a fact and then twist it into some game of truth and lies. I'm sure she can do a great 3Lz+3Lo and I'm even more sure that the 3Lz+3Lo she did today wasn't great.

 

[flanker]

Seems the battle will continue for much longer time than the test skates in all categories, so:

A. Partially I agree that Eteri didn't do the right thing by her comment after Aliona's departure.
B. On the other hand, such situation (skating with "girls born in 2010") was definitely not unusual and is not unusual generally. We don't know if the reason for that was somehow sudden and supposed to be temporary (like lack of the training time, ice or whatever objective reason) but I doubt it would be done just because "Eteri is evil so she forced all skaters to be on the ice just for her own amusement", in other words, without a reason. Not a reason to leave by itself to me, but whatever, it happened. Deal with it everybody (incl. me).
C. Test skates, ladies, my ranking after the SP, first three:
1. Anna -most mature performance, no question. She always did well with emotions, with the understanding of the music. As for jumps, solid. probably 1st in PCS, slighly 2nd in TES to me.
2. Kamila - highest TES, slightly behind Anna in PCS, it's just the matter of getting mature.
3. Sasha - did very well, just like somebody said, as if there was no break in training.
Of course those first three can be sorted differently by other people and that will be perfectly reasonable. Just those three names in the lead are clear to me.

 

[Fluture]

Just caught up. Some thoughts, in the order I watched it:

Evgenia: Well, I love the program. The step sequence especially was my favorite. The choreography seems great, the problem was just that Zhenya was totally cautious today. She needs to bring the fire she had in the step sequence throughout the entire performance. Then it will work. Also, the technical stuff... Both Brian and TAT said she was in great shape just a few weeks ago and today that just wasn‘t it. 3Lo+3T is interesting but looked more like an emergency plan. I fear she is injured. I have watched Zhenya for many years and I dare say that I know what mistakes from her look like that are caused by nerves. Today she skated as if she was preserving her body and her energy. Which would not be a problem if it wasn’t for the fact that her first competition is in barely a week. This is... not good.

Aliona. She did better than I expected, considering the chaotic off-season she had. Good fight on the jumps, though they’re clearly not there yet. I could have done without the flatline and heartbeat sound, they were a little cheesy. But I like the general look of the program - the last part especially has Twilight vibes and once she‘s refined it a bit, I‘m sure she‘ll be able to sell it. She hasn‘t “lost her magic“. In fact, she did better than most would have, after the turmoil she went through. Overall, I’m not too worried - her cup events are the last ones - lots of time to polish things.

Sasha: WOW! One of my favorites today. That was so good, such an improvement. Her skating skills looked better as did her presentation. She‘s still not as naturally elegant and some movements look a little awkward but overall, this was quite the performance. Technically solid too. Love the program and I‘m sure she‘ll grow into it. :luv17: Now I‘m excited for the FS - hopefully the quads will not make a difference in her performance ability.

Anna: Well done on the 3Lz+3Lo! She seems to have grown a lot but had no problems on the jumps whatsoever. The program, however, didn‘t work too well for me. Her interpretation/presentation is stunning as usually but the choreography/music choice seems like a weaker version of Perfume. The step sequence especially was a let down. But I love her dress and she‘s just so musical. I‘m hopeful for the FS.

Kamila: Another WOW from me. I didn‘t expect for Sasha and Kami to leave the biggest impression on me but here we are. I was worried about her skating at senior test skates but she fit right in. And that program - just lovely! I‘ve always said that Kamila has everything I‘d love in a skater - I just wasn‘t sold on her programs before. Well, I‘m sold on that one - it’s gorgeous! There are still a few rushed moments and I wish Daniil could have removed some of the 1 second spirals but overall, this was way more refined and musical. The only criticism would be that her combo still has the awkward pause between the jumps, I wish they could have worked on that. But I see Daniil utilized that to his advantage and now the pause makes the two jumps land right on two musical cues. I don‘t tend to give the guy much praise but that‘s genius.

Liza: The costume is legendary - typical Liza. Though a little distracting, I have to admit. For the first few seconds I kept staring at her feet, wondering whether she was skating in two different boots! The program is more lyrical but I have to admit, I’m not too sold on it yet. Shame for the axel pop but well done on the other jumps. I assume the lack of a combo was on purpose, considering neither Liza nor Sofia seemed to even attempt one.

Sofia: It‘s weird, it‘s really really weird. But somehow, I like it. It‘s so unusual that it definitely caught and kept my attention. She also seems to have her usual energy back, which is great to see. I think she could surprise everyone this season.

Now, some general comments:

Plushenko at the boards is an unusual sight. And I just love Ilinykh, she seems very gentle and nurturing.

Ted disappointed me a bit today. He had nice things to say about everyone, as usually, which was appreciated. But commenting on Aliona‘s inside edge and not mentioning a word on Anna‘s? Overall, he seemed to find more mistakes in Sasha and Aliona today than he did before, though this might just be my personal impression.

All in all, it was wonderful to see these ladies again, though. I love all of them. Can‘t wait for tomorrow.

 

[dhjh811]

What do you fear about her? Injury? Illness? Something else? I think I know what you fear. But let's hope it's not that.

It's not very open and if we only have 708 skaters there. But we need to see whoever is there perform because we all miss the competition so much.


Aliona said she cannot discuss other people. But she broke her own rule with her own statement.;

By the way I agree with everything she said. EG should not have done that Instagram post and you cannot have all these little skaters on the ice with the juniors and seniors. I know TT has a lot of students and everyone wants to bring their daughters there for obvious reasons but maybe they have to re think some of the things they are doing. TT cannot afford to lose any other top talent. Losing three such talented girls in a couple months is like nothing we've ever seen in figure skating from one coach. But all EGs skaters and their parents are watching with what happened with TT and PA. She might have to tweak some things but she sounds like she doesn't want to change any of her academy rules for any skaters. That's one of the reasons Aliona left.

She didn't really contradict herself because she said that the act itself of making such posts on Instagram is offensive, not that she judges Eteri for doing so. She just personally thinks that publicly shaming someone on social media isn't right and that such matters should be privately discussed eye to eye, but she won't necessarily judge another person for those actions. She is criticizing the action itself, and she can't judge other people for deciding to behave the way they do.

On another note, I think people are forgetting that Aliona got her programs done just weeks ago. She moved to Plushenko just last month. Her skating skills and beautiful movements are still there, she just needs to work on her jump landings. I'm sure the next time we see this program it'll come to life. The music edits are weird, but Aliona moves so nicely to the music. She can make almost anything work.

 

[flanker]

Anya's 3Lz+3Lo was UR and the lutz edge was flat at best. That's a fact. Does that take away from the fact that she's a great skater? No. Does that somehow mean that she's worse than Aliona? Definitely not. Please stop trying to pick a fight over a fact and then twist it into some game of truth and lies. I'm sure she can do a great 3Lz+3Lo and I'm even more sure that the 3Lz+3Lo she did today wasn't great.

May I ask whether that is a reply to me?

 

[Tolstoj]

Anya's 3Lz+3Lo was UR and the lutz edge was flat at best. That's a fact. Does that take away from the fact that she's a great skater? No. Does that somehow mean that she's worse than Aliona? Definitely not. Please stop trying to pick a fight over a fact and then twist it into some game of truth and lies. I'm sure she can do a great 3Lz+3Lo and I'm even more sure that the 3Lz+3Lo she did today wasn't great.

Oh yeah my comment was just on the execution after reading many praising it.

Overall she is still a great skater, beautiful spinner.

 

[Fluture]

She just personally thinks that publicly shaming someone on social media isn't right and that such matters should be privately discussed eye to eye

And considering how often Eteri complained about girls not talking eye to eye about issues with her and rather leaving “behind her back“, she has a pretty solid point. Aliona didn‘t back down, she approached her coaches and told them what was wrong. They didn‘t find a compromise, so she left. There should be no problem with that - instead, Eteri had to go on social media and publicly shame her student. And not only that - from the look of it, it seems like she purposefully spun things to her convenience too.

Having a “list of girls non grata“ definitely sounds a whole lot different than not wanting to train at the same time as little kids. There‘s nothing wrong with wanting individual attention, so, yes, I applaud Aliona for speaking and standing up for herself in a respectful way. That takes guts.

 

[dhjh811]

And considering how often Eteri complained about girls not talking eye to eye about issues with her and rather leaving “behind her back“, she has a pretty solid point. Aliona didn‘t back down, she approached her coaches and told them what was wrong. They didn‘t find a compromise, so she left. There should be no problem with that - instead, Eteri had to go on social media and publicly shame her student. And not only that - from the look of it, it seems like she purposefully spun to her convenience things too.

Having a “list of girls non grata“ definitely sounds a whole lot different than not wanting to train at the same time as little kids. There‘s nothing wrong with wanting individual attention, so, yes, I applaud Aliona for speaking and standing up for herself in a respectful way. That takes guts.

completely agree

 

[Hyena]

And considering how often Eteri complained about girls not talking eye to eye about issues with her and rather leaving “behind her back“, she has a pretty solid point. Aliona didn‘t back down, she approached her coaches and told them what was wrong. They didn‘t find a compromise, so she left. There should be no problem with that - instead, Eteri had to go on social media and publicly shame her student. And not only that - from the look of it, it seems like she purposefully spun things to her convenience too.

Having a “list of girls non grata“ definitely sounds a whole lot different than not wanting to train at the same time as little kids. There‘s nothing wrong with wanting individual attention, so, yes, I applaud Aliona for speaking and standing up for herself in a respectful way. That takes guts.

This is pretty well put.

I don't see why there'd be any issue with Aliona's reason for leaving. It wasn't working for her any more, so she decided to try to find an environment that did. It works for Anna, so she stayed.

 

[Scott512]

Just caught up. Some thoughts, in the order I watched it:

Evgenia: Well, I love the program. The step sequence especially was my favorite. The choreography seems great, the problem was just that Zhenya was totally cautious today. She needs to bring the fire she had in the step sequence throughout the entire performance. Then it will work. Also, the technical stuff... Both Brian and TAT said she was in great shape just a few weeks ago and today that just wasn‘t it. 3Lo+3T is interesting but looked more like an emergency plan. I fear she is injured. I have watched Zhenya for many years and I dare say that I know what mistakes from her look like that are caused by nerves. Today she skated as if she was preserving her body and her energy. Which would not be a problem if it wasn’t for the fact that her first competition is in barely a week. This is... not good.

Aliona. She did better than I expected, considering the chaotic off-season she had. Good fight on the jumps, though they’re clearly not there yet. I could have done without the flatline and heartbeat sound, they were a little cheesy. But I like the general look of the program - the last part especially has Twilight vibes and once she‘s refined it a bit, I‘m sure she‘ll be able to sell it. She hasn‘t “lost her magic“. In fact, she did better than most would have, after the turmoil she went through. Overall, I’m not too worried - her cup events are the last ones - lots of time to polish things.

Sasha: WOW! One of my favorites today. That was so good, such an improvement. Her skating skills looked better as did her presentation. She‘s still not as naturally elegant and some movements look a little awkward but overall, this was quite the performance. Technically solid too. Love the program and I‘m sure she‘ll grow into it. :luv17: Now I‘m excited for the FS - hopefully the quads will not make a difference in her performance ability.

Anna: Well done on the 3Lz+3Lo! She seems to have grown a lot but had no problems on the jumps whatsoever. The program, however, didn‘t work too well for me. Her interpretation/presentation is stunning as usually but the choreography/music choice seems like a weaker version of Perfume. The step sequence especially was a let down. But I love her dress and she‘s just so musical. I‘m hopeful for the FS.

Kamila: Another WOW from me. I didn‘t expect for Sasha and Kami to leave the biggest impression on me but here we are. I was worried about her skating at senior test skates but she fit right in. And that program - just lovely! I‘ve always said that Kamila has everything I‘d love in a skater - I just wasn‘t sold on her programs before. Well, I‘m sold on that one - it’s gorgeous! There are still a few rushed moments and I wish Daniil could have removed some of the 1 second spirals but overall, this was way more refined and musical. The only criticism would be that her combo still has the awkward pause between the jumps, I wish they could have worked on that. But I see Daniil utilized that to his advantage and now the pause makes the two jumps land right on two musical cues. I don‘t tend to give the guy much praise but that‘s genius.

Liza: The costume is legendary - typical Liza. Though a little distracting, I have to admit. For the first few seconds I kept staring at her feet, wondering whether she was skating in two different boots! The program is more lyrical but I have to admit, I’m not too sold on it yet. Shame for the axel pop but well done on the other jumps. I assume the lack of a combo was on purpose, considering neither Liza nor Sofia seemed to even attempt one.

Sofia: It‘s weird, it‘s really really weird. But somehow, I like it. It‘s so unusual that it definitely caught and kept my attention. She also seems to have her usual energy back, which is great to see. I think she could surprise everyone this season.

Now, some general comments:

Plushenko at the boards is an unusual sight. And I just love Ilinykh, she seems very gentle and nurturing.

Ted disappointed me a bit today. He had nice things to say about everyone, as usually, which was appreciated. But commenting on Aliona‘s inside edge and not mentioning a word on Anna‘s? Overall, he seemed to find more mistakes in Sasha and Aliona today than he did before, though this might just be my personal impression.

All in all, it was wonderful to see these ladies again, though. I love all of them. Can‘t wait for tomorrow.

What are you saying about Ted?

Come on you know where Ted's bread is buttered with a Russian girls.

She didn't really contradict herself because she said that the act itself of making such posts on Instagram is offensive, not that she judges Eteri for doing so. She just personally thinks that publicly shaming someone on social media isn't right and that such matters should be privately discussed eye to eye, but she won't necessarily judge another person for those actions. She is criticizing the action itself, and she can't judge other people for deciding to behave the way they do.

On another note, I think people are forgetting that Aliona got her programs done just weeks ago. She moved to Plushenko just last month. Her skating skills and beautiful movements are still there, she just needs to work on her jump landings. I'm sure the next time we see this program it'll come to life. The music edits are weird, but Aliona moves so nicely to the music. She can make almost anything work.

I'm with aliona on all of this. What she said is correct about not doing things on Instagram etc.

Are great skating will come back it just takes time. The pandemic hit everyone hard in different ways.

I'm so glad kamila nailed it. She showed she belongs which we all knew all along. This is invaluable experience for her.

 

[Vandevska]

Seems the battle will continue for much longer time than the test skates in all categories, so:

A. Partially I agree that Eteri didn't do the right thing by her comment after Aliona's departure.
B. On the other hand, such situation (skating with "girls born in 2010") was definitely not unusual and is not unusual generally. We don't know the reason fi thet was somehow suden and supposed to be temporary (like lack of the training time, ice or whatever objective reason) but I doubt it would be done just because "Eteri is evil so she forced all skaters to be on the ice just for her own amusement", in other words, without a reason. Not a reason to leave by itself to me, but whatever, it happened. Deal with it everybody (incl. me).
C. Test skates, ladies, my ranking after the SP, first three:
1. Anna -most mature performance, no question. She always did well with emotions, with the understanding of the music. As for jumps, solid. probably 1st in PCS, slighly 2nd in TES to me.
2. Kamila - highest TES, slightly behind Anna in PCS, it's just the matter of getting mature.
3. Sasha - did very well, just like somebody said, as if there was no break in training.
Of course those first three can be sorted differently by other people and that will be perfectly reasonable. Just those three names in the lead are clear to me.

Thing is, no one has said that Eteri had everyone on ice because she's evil. Yes, that's the approach and I'm not gonna comment whether it's good or bad, however it was clearly not suited for Aliona. So why is everyone saying "well it worked for the others" and as you said "she was once a kid too"? Guess what, she no longer is. As Ted said, people grow up, they want something different, so they go and seek that. And that's what Aliona did - didn't say a single bad word about the team, only said that it wasn't convenient for her, asked her coaches, thought she wasn't heard so she went and found something perhaps more suitable for her. Meanwhile Eteri goes and makes it look as if she's with her head high in the clouds. I mean.... I don't like that approach at all. It's distasteful, it's not fair to the skaters. Both Sasha and Aliona were nice and Eteri wasn't.