2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 340 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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What about this one?

Not commenting on the axel, but the toeloop is either a toeaxel or very close to one. The throwing foot leaves the ice before it's passed through, it comes through pointed, and she does almost a full rotation on the ice (watch her picking foot in slow mo on the toe).
 
On top of this we'd also have to define takeoff as "foot placement" which means we could do 720degrees prerotation on the ice and then do a single revolution in the air and have it as a triple jump if we just said the takeoff was initial foot placement
Defining take off and rotation is definitely not easy. We have to agree on standards, but it's not an easy task. I found a nice post on this website outlining why: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/t...r-lakernik-on-rule-changes.81076/post-2409997

It is amusing that the "good technique" brigade is so sure about jumps based off YT videos.

What about this one?

I wouldn't say so, although not particularly a powerful take off either. But kolyadafan might correct me there. I've actually asked a friend to give me videos of legitimate backward take offs on axels, if they have any. I doubt it's seen at all in high level skating.
 
Not commenting on the axel, but the toeloop is either a toeaxel or very close to one. The throwing foot leaves the ice before it's passed through, it comes through pointed, and she does almost a full rotation on the ice (watch her picking foot in slow mo on the toe).
Yes, I agree. I think the 3A is fine, but her 3Ts are sometimes close to toeaxels. Perhaps this discussion should be moved? Alyssa is not a Russian lady.
 
All this doesn't matter anyway. You can always find some kind of record or achievement by constructing the sentence in a certain way.
I agree with you, but when people write that "Anna was the first to jump quads in training" or "Sasha became the Quad Queen only because Shcherbakova was injured" it looks very disrespectful towards Sasha. In fact, it doesn't matter who jumped something in training, for example, we saw Tursynbaeva's quad before Sasha and Anna. The main thing was to decide to insert it into the program and Sasha had the courage to do it. She was the only one who skate with quad in competitions all season(17-18) and showed to other girls that it is possible and necessary for win.
 
Well she didn't fully rotate that one at first. Not for over half a year. Also Anna had quad in late 2016 already.

I mean, the only reason Trusova even has "first quad"-sorta achievements at all is because Anna broke her leg in 2017 summer. She's very very fortunate.
lol you can try to twist the facts to make it seem like it isn't but that's not going to change any of it. There's no crystal ball telling you that Anna would've been the first to land any of the quads Trusova was the first to land if she hadn't broken her leg. Sure, you can use her leg being broken as an excuse for her not landing it 3 years ago, but here we are and Anna has still not landed a quad toe or a salchow in competition even though she has landed lutz and flip. Obviously, her broken leg is no longer a hindrance to her quad progress and yet here we are almost 3 years later and she's struggling to rotate the only 2 quads that she has. Trusova isn't "fortunate", she is just a hard-worker who has worked hard for all the quads that she has gotten. This shows even with the 3A, the three girls have been training it now for years and Anna is the only one has nothing to show for it yet, not even in the famous training videos.

I'm not trying to put Anna down but let's call a spade a spade, she's a gifted jumper, well above most of her peers but she's not the first to do it, she's not the best there is/was and she likely will never be.
 
lol you can try to twist the facts to make it seem like it isn't but that's not going to change any of it. There's no crystal ball telling you that Anna would've been the first to land any of the quads Trusova was the first to land if she hadn't broken her leg. Sure, you can use her leg being broken as an excuse for her not landing it 3 years ago, but here we are and Anna has still not landed a quad toe or a salchow in competition even though she has landed lutz and flip. Obviously, her broken leg is no longer a hindrance to her quad progress and yet here we are almost 3 years later and she's struggling to rotate the only 2 quads that she has. Trusova isn't "fortunate", she is just a hard-worker who has worked hard for all the quads that she has gotten. This shows even with the 3A, the three girls have been training it now for years and Anna is the only one has nothing to show for it yet, not even in the famous training videos.

I'm not trying to put Anna down but let's call a spade a spade, she's a gifted jumper, well above most of her peers but she's not the first to do it, she's not the best there is/was and she likely will never be.
Yes, I agree. Plus another thing - I often watch Anna's videos in order to analyze her jump technique on other jumps than her flip and her lutz, but it is very hard to do this. At the Russian nationals 2020 she jumped 4 lutzes and 2 flips! Even though her lutz and her flip are her two worst jumps and both of these jumps she always jumps with excessive pre-totation! And yet she repeated them so many times. That is it - most of her jumps were excessively pre-rotated at that competition. All of her other jumps that have better technique - double axel, triple loop, triple salchow, triple toe loop and euler were jumped by her only once.
I guess that this is one of the reasons why so many fs fans dislike her technique so much, as she is showing the worst of it - again and again and again... I mean - Carolina Kostner has great flip and great lutz, both with minimal pre-rotation, but she still repeated only the 3T and 3S at Oly FS 2014.
 
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Defining take off and rotation is definitely not easy. We have to agree on standards, but it's not an easy task. I found a nice post on this website outlining why: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/t...r-lakernik-on-rule-changes.81076/post-2409997

It is amusing that the "good technique" brigade is so sure about jumps based off YT videos.


I wouldn't say so, although not particularly a powerful take off either. But kolyadafan might correct me there. I've actually asked a friend to give me videos of legitimate backward take offs on axels, if they have any. I doubt it's seen at all in high level skating.
I think Javier fernandez sometimes did backwards takeoffs (sometimes very close to backwards - 2015 world's is a good video to look at).

A few skaters/coaches I know personally do backwards takeoffs / teach backwards takeoffs, but out of respect to them I won't mention them.

In terms of this axel in particular, I can't really comment because of the refresh rate. There are frames missing between the quater and when she's in the air, so it's impossible to know how long it took her to get into the air.


Edit: I really hate to pick on David Jenkins as what he did at the time he did was incredible, but here is an example of a backwards takeoff: https://youtu.be/w2unFSmlNjI
 
I think Javier fernandez sometimes did backwards takeoffs
Are skid takeoffs more prone to being backward sometimes? Asking cos I know Javi skids the 3A vs Yuzuru doing a clean edge (and Brian mentioned in an interview somewhere that both ways are fine).
Hope this isn' t too OT.
 
Are skid takeoffs more prone to being backward sometimes? Asking cos I know Javi skids the 3A vs Yuzuru doing a clean edge (and Brian mentioned in an interview somewhere that both ways are fine).
Hope this isn' t too OT.
If we're relating it to the pre-rotation rule definition, then we can say it effects the entire of Russian figure skating. Let's use an example from Russian test skates
(1:12:23)
 
I understand that after Sasha left Tutberidze, the fans of her group decided to rewrite history, but this went too far. Yesterday at Nike presentation, the presenter called Anna as the first woman to land a quadruple lutz and the one who did what only men did before her(and Anna did not correct her). Today I see messages that Anna was the first to jump quad in the Tutberidze team and Sasha is not even mentioned. Let's figure it out. brakes, not only Anna's quad was published in April 2017, but also Sasha's quad, I will even say more they were published right on the same day (if I am not mistaken, Anna's 4T and Sasha's 4S-3T were posted on April 22). Let's go further, we have words from Danny G, Eteri and Sasha that it was Trusova who asked the coaches to teach her in a quadruple jump.Polina Tsurskaya said that it was Sasha who first landed the quad in training and for everyone it was like a flight into space. Everyone applauded her, congratulated her.https://www.sovsport.ru/figure/news/2:910327 We also have a testimony from one of the parents of Khrustalny https://russian.rt.com/sport/article/745674-arutyunyan-trusova-plyuschenko-tutberidze
Eteri fans not only rewrite history but they say who criticizes Eteri or doesn't talk about her positive words that is a liar. For example " Kostornaya lied like she always does". o_O
But who is in the Guinness book? Totally irrelevant what TT fans think.
 
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I'm a little late, but wow, Zhilina's lutz is amazing! I love Sasha and Anna, but I think this is the best 4Lz yet. I'd give Sasha best 4S and 4F. 4T is difficult because several girls have beautiful 4Ts, including Sasha and Kamila.

I wonder if Akatieva will try to follow this up. Her 3A and 4T are already amazing combined with her skating skills and interpretation, but She'll probably want to keep up with Zhilina on jumps. She has plenty of room on her triples, so I could see her doing the harder quads.
 
2nd stage of Russian Cup promo, "1 kanal" went full throttle into Eteri-Plushy war! :devil:

"Season of fierce rivalry, not only for skaters but coaches as well.
Eteri Tutberidze together with her returning superstar, Evgenya Medvedeva...
[Evgenya: Now, it's all good between us, I find it great]
...and new top star Kamila Valieva...
versus Evgenyi Plushenko and her former pupil, Alexandra Trusova.


Carefully! They heated up the ice so much, you can burn yourself!
Hot Ice, live 10-11 October on '1'!!!"


 
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